Confirmed with Link: [TOR/COL] Nazem Kadri, Calle Rosen for Tyson Barrie (50% retain), Alex Kerfoot trade (continued)

[Joey Hoser]

Thank you for reminding people of the revisionist history that seems to run rampant on here. And let's not forget he was coming off a team imposed suspension as well.

The Leafs got his best years, the Avs will get his rest years.

People usually mention Lou signing Rielly in the same breath too. I think we all knew that was a good contract at the time, but we thought that based on foresight, and not what he had done. At the time his career high was 36 points and he was minus a billion, so it wasn't remotely difficult to get him on a good deal.

 

[moon111]

Sometimes players get used in situations which put fans into a position to not like them.
Bozak was a free agent signing that chose Toronto. Class act that ended up being put on
the 1st line when he should of been on the 2nd or 3rd. Not his fault.
Think Barrie, Kerfoot, Ceci... some of these guys were put in positions to fail in the eyes
of their fans. If your team was losing, do you play a safe game or take chances?

 

[Jozay]

Kerfoot is better than I expected.

 

[The CyNick]

Your arguments are all over the place, to be honest. No matter what Kerfoot provides for us, the return is never "only one year of Barrie" and Colorado never turned Barrie on his own into Kadri. Regardless of what happens, Kerfoot is a top 9 player in his prime, that we have for 4 years. In no scenario is that something you can ignore.

You're using very convulated logic when it's quite simple. Barrie is a better player than Kadri, especially for us. The value of one year with him is worth more than one year of Kadri. That leaves you with less than 2 years of value from Kadri for 4 years with Kerfoot. That's a bet I make every day, and Kerfoot doesn't have to become someone who gets us close to 30 goals in a shutdown role for that to be worth it.

I've never once ignored Kerfoot's value in the trade. Not sure how you came to that conclusion. I would suggest we try to debate the points I actually made vs ones you wish I made so your response would be relevant.

I don't see the trade the way you do. I don't think it's a given Barrie is better than Kadri. Barrie is similar to what we already have on D, a bunch of soft smallish guys who think offense first.

Kadri at his best is a very good shutdown centre who can play against top opponents. Kadri at his best can give you 30 goals and 50+ points. I don't think Kerfoot will ever do all those things. And may never do any of those things.

The reason I really like the trade for Colorado is that they are loaded with D, so Barrie was very expendable. The leafs had a need on D, but organizationally they are also weak at centre. Realistically the only depth in the organization is small wingers. In trading Kadri they gave up a competitive advantage, which was no team or at least very few could match the quality of our top three centers.

Kerfoot might end up being a quality centre in his own right, but I don't think he's going to be matched up against the Bergeron line with two points on the line. Whereas Kadri could and did do that.

You're already seeing the impact in other spots in the lineup. Without Kadri, now you need matthews or Tavares to match up with the other team's top line. This often impacts that lines scoring as they have to focus more effort on keeping the puck out of the net. I believe this is hurting the Tavares line right now.

We could have kept Gardiner and Kadri and be in a better spot organizationally. If Barrie puts up 60 points for us for the next five years, then it'll be a good move. If he's gone after one, and Kerfoot is just another guy, then I don't think the trade is good. Kadri likely would have stayed here long term, so I don't think the length of his deal is the issue you're making it out to be.

 

[The90]

Sometimes players get used in situations which put fans into a position to not like them.
Bozak was a free agent signing that chose Toronto. Class act that ended up being put on
the 1st line when he should of been on the 2nd or 3rd. Not his fault.
Think Barrie, Kerfoot, Ceci... some of these guys were put in positions to fail in the eyes
of their fans. If your team was losing, do you play a safe game or take chances?

Phaneuf should be in that same breath.

 

[The CyNick]

There's no way the GM can know if Barrie would even want to stay in Toronto long term, never mind the other nonsense.

If you have an opinion on the trade, feel free to share. If you're don't have the balls to make a decision now then anything you say on the subject is just noise.

Seems unnecessary to flame me by calling my points nonsense. But glad you took the time to tell me my posts were just noise.

What's that noise?

 

[Polaris1010]

We could have kept Gardiner and Kadri and be in a better spot organizationally. If Barrie puts up 60 points for us for the next five years, then it'll be a good move. If he's gone after one, and Kerfoot is just another guy, then I don't think the trade is good. Kadri likely would have stayed here long term, so I don't think the length of his deal is the issue you're making it out to be.

This forum always talks about asset management.

Well, by the end of this season, there are no assets on the defense.

Sure ... Dubas can go sign somebody ... anybody ...

But per usual, he will be dealing from a position of weakness yet again.

Like you said, Kadri was a player, a 20/30 goal scorer, a proven commodity under a team friendly contract for a few more years.

That money was given to Kerfoot and Spezza.

So, you are absolutely correct in your analysis of the dynamic to evaluate this trade going forward.

 

[Boutette]

Kerfoots looking real solid, avs fans were preaching the opposite but I like the guy so far.

To be fair, he was either put with linemates who were not remotely as as complimentary as Moore and Mikheyev are or he was put on the wing on the top line and expected to be their Hyman.

 

[Boutette]

I've never once ignored Kerfoot's value in the trade. Not sure how you came to that conclusion. I would suggest we try to debate the points I actually made vs ones you wish I made so your response would be relevant.

I don't see the trade the way you do. I don't think it's a given Barrie is better than Kadri. Barrie is similar to what we already have on D, a bunch of soft smallish guys who think offense first.

Kadri at his best is a very good shutdown centre who can play against top opponents. Kadri at his best can give you 30 goals and 50+ points. I don't think Kerfoot will ever do all those things. And may never do any of those things.

The reason I really like the trade for Colorado is that they are loaded with D, so Barrie was very expendable. The leafs had a need on D, but organizationally they are also weak at centre. Realistically the only depth in the organization is small wingers. In trading Kadri they gave up a competitive advantage, which was no team or at least very few could match the quality of our top three centers.

Kerfoot might end up being a quality centre in his own right, but I don't think he's going to be matched up against the Bergeron line with two points on the line. Whereas Kadri could and did do that.

You're already seeing the impact in other spots in the lineup. Without Kadri, now you need matthews or Tavares to match up with the other team's top line. This often impacts that lines scoring as they have to focus more effort on keeping the puck out of the net. I believe this is hurting the Tavares line right now.

We could have kept Gardiner and Kadri and be in a better spot organizationally. If Barrie puts up 60 points for us for the next five years, then it'll be a good move. If he's gone after one, and Kerfoot is just another guy, then I don't think the trade is good. Kadri likely would have stayed here long term, so I don't think the length of his deal is the issue you're making it out to be.

I won't argue that Kadri is capable of scoring more goals, but that has happened when he has had his best possible usage complimentary linemates and highest shooting percentage. Of course Kerfoot isn't going to score 30+ goals, because he's a *playmaker*. But as a playmaker for the likes of Mikheyev and Moore, his top end is certainly 50+ points because the bulk of our wingers are shooters, and unlike Kadri, he will actually pass to them. And, no, he's not a shutdown bull in a chinashop center like Kadri, but he's very good positionally and possessionwise as advance stats tell us.

 

[kb]

This forum always talks about asset management.

Well, by the end of this season, there are no assets on the defense.

Sure ... Dubas can go sign somebody ... anybody ...

But per usual, he will be dealing from a position of weakness yet again.

Like you said, Kadri was a player, a 20/30 goal scorer, a proven commodity under a team friendly contract for a few more years.

That money was given to Kerfoot and Spezza.

So, you are absolutely correct in your analysis of the dynamic to evaluate this trade going forward.

Epic fail

 

[The CyNick]

This forum always talks about asset management.

Well, by the end of this season, there are no assets on the defense.

Sure ... Dubas can go sign somebody ... anybody ...

But per usual, he will be dealing from a position of weakness yet again.

Like you said, Kadri was a player, a 20/30 goal scorer, a proven commodity under a team friendly contract for a few more years.

That money was given to Kerfoot and Spezza.

So, you are absolutely correct in your analysis of the dynamic to evaluate this trade going forward.

Yes, I feel some people on here have trouble evaluating the GM objectively.

 

[Polaris1010]

Epic fail

Well, if you say so, it has to be true.

One suggestion. Try to put together a coherent logical reply. Otherwise people will start to think you're just trolling.

Hey, troll gotta troll, right?

Tell me something . . . whatever did happen to the backup goalie McElhinney?

 

[kb]

Yes, I feel some people on here have trouble evaluating the GM objectively.

I know of 2 at least.

 

[Stephen]

I don't see Kadri scoring 30 goals again, Colorado or not.

 

[kb]

Well, if you say so, it has to be true.

One suggestion. Try to put together a coherent logical reply. Otherwise people will start to think you're just trolling.

Hey, troll gotta troll, right?

Tell me something . . . whatever did happen to the backup goalie McElhinney?

No, I'll just let your posts speak for themselves.

 

[KuleminFan41]

This forum always talks about asset management.

Well, by the end of this season, there are no assets on the defense.

Sure ... Dubas can go sign somebody ... anybody ...

But per usual, he will be dealing from a position of weakness yet again.

Like you said, Kadri was a player, a 20/30 goal scorer, a proven commodity under a team friendly contract for a few more years.

That money was given to Kerfoot and Spezza.

So, you are absolutely correct in your analysis of the dynamic to evaluate this trade going forward.

The Leafs have no assets on defence at the end of the season? I'm not sure I follow.Unless I'm mistaken, Rielly has 2 more seasons, Dermott is an RFA who likely comes cheap due to injury , Sandin and Lilejgren are both on their ELC's and there's at least 14 million in cap space available to work with. So that's at least 4 with the very real possibility at least one of Barrie or Muzzin comes back, not sure about Ceci though. I'm of the belief that they don't trade for Barrie unless they believe they can retain his services , I hope to be right.

Kadri played 7 full seasons with the Leafs, only 3 of them did he ever score over 20 goals and they were spaced by 3 seasons . That's hardly a "proven" 20/30 goal scorer by any means. He was never this offensive dynamo that people believed he was because while he did score 30 goals twice, its the exception rather than the rule. You want to keep Kadri over Kerfoot, despite there only being a 2 point difference last season, and the season prior Kerfoot scored 19 goals playing the 3rd line. Kerfoot is cheaper, younger by 4 years but most importantly, is better suited to the role . This move was better for the team, especially when you can't count on Kadri in the playoffs.

Kapanen and Johnsson both put up the same amount of points and scored more than he did and are on cheaper contracts. Kadri was expendable for a multitude of reasons

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

This forum always talks about asset management.

Well, by the end of this season, there are no assets on the defense.

Sure ... Dubas can go sign somebody ... anybody ...

But per usual, he will be dealing from a position of weakness yet again.

Like you said, Kadri was a player, a 20/30 goal scorer, a proven commodity under a team friendly contract for a few more years.

That money was given to Kerfoot and Spezza.

So, you are absolutely correct in your analysis of the dynamic to evaluate this trade going forward.

In fairness, Kadri has only topped 20 goals twice in his career.

 

[kb]

In fairness, Kadri has only topped 20 goals twice in his career.

You just have to remember it's not about Kadri, it's about the GM who traded Kadri for nothing, and Kadri is an elite superstar, and the GM is a moron.

As my father used to say, the saddest thing about (....) people is that they have no clue that they are (....)

 

[Gary Nylund]

You just have to remember it's not about Kadri, it's about the GM who traded Kadri for nothing, and Kadri is an elite superstar, and the GM is a moron.

As my father used to say, the saddest thing about (....) people is that they have no clue that they are (....)

What they are is often wrong, but never uncertain.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Yes, I feel some people on here have trouble evaluating the GM objectively.

You are literally talking about yourself with this post.

You can wrongly evaluate the GM on both sides of the fence.

 

[Suntouchable13]

It's a myth that Kadri is a great shutdown centre. Last season, JT took all of his tough assignments. Kadri is ok defensively, but he is not great.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

A lot of people talking to nobody in here.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

This forum always talks about asset management.

Well, by the end of this season, there are no assets on the defense.

Sure ... Dubas can go sign somebody ... anybody ...

But per usual, he will be dealing from a position of weakness yet again.

Like you said, Kadri was a player, a 20/30 goal scorer, a proven commodity under a team friendly contract for a few more years.

That money was given to Kerfoot and Spezza.

So, you are absolutely correct in your analysis of the dynamic to evaluate this trade going forward.

By "no assets on defense" do you mean to imply that Rielly, Dermott, Sandin, and Liljegren would not qualify as assets? Nor would they be valuable members of this defense headed into 2020/21?

 

[Gary Nylund]

That "no assets on defence" quote is pretty out there even by cynick's standards. Zero chance of him admitting he's wrong though which is 99% of what makes it so amusing.

Often wrong, but never uncertain.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

What they are is often wrong, but never uncertain.

You just summed up the internet.