Confirmed with Link: [TOR/COL] Nazem Kadri, Calle Rosen for Tyson Barrie (50% retain), Alex Kerfoot trade (continued)

[ULF_55]

This trade is good for both teams, but getting Alexander Kerfoot isn't really part of what makes it a win for the Leafs.

He's not a bad player, he does enough on paper to justify the contract he got. He can be a third wheel in a top 6 role but only on the wing and he's generally more comfortable at center. He'll collect his fair share of points in a top 6 role and is a decent filler guy but you'll eventually find yourself feeling he should be fairly easy to upgrade upon.

Part of that is that he doesn't really bring a whole ton other than being pretty good offensively. He's not overly small but he feels small and brings no physicality outside of catching a guy off guard once a year. He's not terrible defensively but you also don't want him in a defensive role. He's just kind of vanilla. Most Avs fans are much easier on (and happy to pay similar money for) JT Compher who produces less than Kerfoot in a similar W/C role, but is moderately better defensively, and is a pest.

...
Barrie on the other hand gets more stick than he deserves. He's great at what he does and he does it often enough to forgive/forget the odd terrible decision or turnover (if you're the kind of fan that wants to never notice your dmen you'll hate him). He's a guy the Leafs should work hard to keep beyond next year and I think if they do then the trade is almost perfectly even value, if he walks in UFA it feels like the Leafs paid a heavy price for one year of Barrie.

Kerfoot won't be close to a top 6 forward on the Leafs.

He's a bottom 6 player, who might keep his spot when the prospects are cooked.

Kadri was a bottom 6 player on the Leafs but he'll do better top 6 in Colorado.

 

[Pookie]

So this is the end of Kadri's tenure in Toronto.

On Kadri

Absolutely every ounce of respect for this guy who faced a challenging crossroads in life and appears to have picked the right path. The off ice turnaround has led to a marriage and hopefully a family that he can raise in a much more positive environment if he is able to stay the course.

Many have failed before him with these vices and I wish him the utmost respect and good luck in his future.

On the Trade

Clearly a great move for the team. Setting aside Kadri the person, we have traded a player who has climbed the peak in his career and has begun the age related decline that happens to everyone.

His contract was nice but he was completely a useless asset for our team in the playoffs. As was his skill set considering he didn't play.

Dubas parlayed a 10 team NTC into addressing the team's weakness and I am amazed that he did. Dubas has climbed well up the respect ladder in my books.

On HF Boards

I hope this restores some normalcy to the boards. Kadri was a lightning rod for irrational fanaticism. By and large the debates got heated, which is fine. It adds flavour to the menu.

But some of you exposed the weakest parts of your character... as evidenced by PMs that hit my in box and one in particular that referenced my son. I feel sad for you.

Others of you went off the deep end if someone suggested an age related decline was beginning. Or the suggestion that it would be wise to consider trading a 28 year old 2-3 years into his deal. All of which have proven true... through I am not claiming to be some clairvoyant genius.

I'm glad this part is behind us and I hope you grow. Fortunately, it's just a small group but it's sadly a function of our society and the fact it even exists is depressing. If you can't grow... I sincerely hope you become AVs fans.

On we go into the 2019-20 season. It looks to be an amazing team.

 

[Barklez]

Kerfoot won't be close to a top 6 forward on the Leafs.

He's a bottom 6 player, who might keep his spot when the prospects are cooked.

Kadri was a bottom 6 player on the Leafs but he'll do better top 6 in Colorado.

Wasn't commenting on where Kerfoot will land in the lineup, simply what he can do depending where he slots in.

Kadri should do quite well in Colorado.

 

[notDatsyuk]

3rd C Kadri----------Kerfoot - ---------- lost centre depth, PP, shot and intensity but Tavares and Matthews will play more as a result

I'm not sure how we lost center depth, as Kadri and Kerfoot are both centers (Kerfoot can also play either wing).
I think we have enough people who can work the PP that losing Kadri isn't critical.
Kadri didn't have a particularly good shot, and I don't think Kerfoot has either, but Kerfoot is apparently a much better playmaker, which will be important if he has wingers like Kapanen.
Kadri had intensity, although it frequently backfired and hurt the team. We don't know whether we lost intensity, and whether that is good or bad, until we see how Kerfoot performs.

Let's reserve judgement until we get a look at Kerfoot playing.

 

[notDatsyuk]

When's the last time we've had a right shot defenseman who could make a clean first pass? Feels like forever

So excited to see Barrie in a leafs uniform!

Ian White was probably the best in the last decade.

 

[Pookie]

I'm not sure how we lost center depth, as Kadri and Kerfoot are both centers (Kerfoot can also play either wing).
I think we have enough people who can work the PP that losing Kadri isn't critical.
Kadri didn't have a particularly good shot, and I don't think Kerfoot has either, but Kerfoot is apparently a much better playmaker, which will be important if he has wingers like Kapanen.
Kadri had intensity, although it frequently backfired and hurt the team. We don't know whether we lost intensity, and whether that is good or bad, until we see how Kerfoot performs.

Let's reserve judgement until we get a look at Kerfoot playing.

In terms of playoff intensity... Kadri could have brought it but he wasn’t in the line up.

Folks shouldn’t pretend we’ve lost something we never had.

 

[FlareKnight]

In terms of playoff intensity... Kadri could have brought it but he wasn’t in the line up.

Folks shouldn’t pretend we’ve lost something we never had.

Folks shouldn't pretend that Kadri didn't play a playoff game the past 3 years in order to try and make a point. It is completely fair to say we lost our most intense player. An intensity that lead to stupid things and that won't be missed. But we have to see if this team can actually fire itself up without him. They've needed to when he got suspended and that didn't happen. But now they've got to do it without him being there at all.

 

[Pookie]

Folks shouldn't pretend that Kadri didn't play a playoff game the past 3 years in order to try and make a point. It is completely fair to say we lost our most intense player. An intensity that lead to stupid things and that won't be missed. But we have to see if this team can actually fire itself up without him. They've needed to when he got suspended and that didn't happen. But now they've got to do it without him being there at all.

Kadri played 6 games... generous as he didn’t finish 2 of those 6.... in two years.

The team played 14.

Our “most intense player” was our least reliable.

What’s done is done. I don’t like the soft line up that Dubas seems to favour but I also can’t see how you can miss something you never had.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Folks shouldn't pretend that Kadri didn't play a playoff game the past 3 years in order to try and make a point. It is completely fair to say we lost our most intense player. An intensity that lead to stupid things and that won't be missed. But we have to see if this team can actually fire itself up without him. They've needed to when he got suspended and that didn't happen. But now they've got to do it without him being there at all.

Doing it without him being there has to be easier then doing it while he's there watching in a suit.

The very thing Shanahan tried to fix in him, his maturity, was ultimately a main reason why he was deemed to be the expendable one at this point in time. He shows more composure and he might still be here.

But instead he didn't and we need to improve. Our biggest strength was our big 3 down the middle. Biggest weakness was a top pairing RHD. We used our strength to improve a weakness.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Folks shouldn't pretend that Kadri didn't play a playoff game the past 3 years in order to try and make a point. It is completely fair to say we lost our most intense player. An intensity that lead to stupid things and that won't be missed. But we have to see if this team can actually fire itself up without him. They've needed to when he got suspended and that didn't happen. But now they've got to do it without him being there at all.

That's true, people shouldn't say things that aren't true. Having said that, yeah Kadri played a few games, so what? He also played less games then just about everyone else on the team and we all know the reason for that and that's why there's an asterisk next to his name when trying to assess his value.

 

[Pookie]

Doing it without him being there has to be easier then doing it while he's there watching in a suit.

The very thing Shanahan tried to fix in him, his maturity, was ultimately a main reason why he was deemed to be the expendable one at this point in time. He shows more composure and he might still be here.

But instead he didn't and we need to improve. Our biggest strength was our big 3 down the middle. Biggest weakness was a top pairing RHD. We used our strength to improve a weakness.

This is true.

However, the biggest reason that he is gone probably has more to do with age, skill decline and asset management.

It’s rare to have a player peak into their 30’s. This has been studied extensively.

Kadri’s production took a hit over that infamous 20 game stretch when he had just 2 points.

I remember wondering if this was a blip or the start of a trend. That was mocked of course by the usuals but what followed have been consecutive seasons of lower point production. Wingers were blamed (even though ice time and PP time was consistent) and usage (even though he started getting easier minutes against 3/4 lines).

It’s just what happens. Nothing against him, it just happens.

Dubas managed to sell a player before the decline hurt his value. His contract was decent and we got maximum value. This was always the point in the 6 year deal that would make sense to consider a move for pieces we need.

It takes courage to buck the court of (uninformed) public opinion and do the unpopular thing. For this Dubas, deserves utmost respect.

On we go.

 

[Jack Bauer]

This is true.

However, the biggest reason that he is gone probably has more to do with age, skill decline and asset management.

It’s rare to have a player peak into their 30’s. This has been studied extensively.

Kadri’s production took a hit over that infamous 20 game stretch when he had just 2 points.

I remember wondering if this was a blip or the start of a trend. That was mocked of course by the usuals but what followed have been consecutive seasons of lower point production. Wingers were blamed (even though ice time and PP time was consistent) and usage (even though he started getting easier minutes against 3/4 lines).

It’s just what happens. Nothing against him, it just happens.

Dubas managed to sell a player before the decline hurt his value. His contract was decent and we got maximum value. This was always the point in the 6 year deal that would make sense to consider a move for pieces we need.

It takes courage to buck the court of (uninformed) public opinion and do the unpopular thing. For this Dubas, deserves utmost respect.

On we go.

Agreed. And if Naz fully matured and played his role properly and helped us get past a Boston....he might still be here.

But at his age, you can't cling to the future. He's a "here and now" and we need a Barrie in our lineup way more then a Kadri when you weigh everything.

 

[Morbo]

So this is the end of Kadri's tenure in Toronto.

On Kadri

Absolutely every ounce of respect for this guy who faced a challenging crossroads in life and appears to have picked the right path. The off ice turnaround has led to a marriage and hopefully a family that he can raise in a much more positive environment if he is able to stay the course.

Many have failed before him with these vices and I wish him the utmost respect and good luck in his future.

On the Trade

Clearly a great move for the team. Setting aside Kadri the person, we have traded a player who has climbed the peak in his career and has begun the age related decline that happens to everyone.

His contract was nice but he was completely a useless asset for our team in the playoffs. As was his skill set considering he didn't play.

Dubas parlayed a 10 team NTC into addressing the team's weakness and I am amazed that he did. Dubas has climbed well up the respect ladder in my books.

On HF Boards

I hope this restores some normalcy to the boards. Kadri was a lightning rod for irrational fanaticism. By and large the debates got heated, which is fine. It adds flavour to the menu.

But some of you exposed the weakest parts of your character... as evidenced by PMs that hit my in box and one in particular that referenced my son. I feel sad for you.

Others of you went off the deep end if someone suggested an age related decline was beginning. Or the suggestion that it would be wise to consider trading a 28 year old 2-3 years into his deal. All of which have proven true... through I am not claiming to be some clairvoyant genius.

I'm glad this part is behind us and I hope you grow. Fortunately, it's just a small group but it's sadly a function of our society and the fact it even exists is depressing. If you can't grow... I sincerely hope you become AVs fans.

On we go into the 2019-20 season. It looks to be an amazing team.

LOL

You constantly harped on the guy and wanted him traded, even before there was any reason or cause to.

It was a stupid position and always will be.

you did not have a good hockey read on this player, ever, and simply became entrenched in your position.

don't think for a second any of that has been validated simply because finally Kadri got moved, if that's what that cute little summary was supposed to be.

normalcy to the boards indeed...

 

[Its not your fault]

Folks shouldn't pretend that Kadri didn't play a playoff game the past 3 years in order to try and make a point. It is completely fair to say we lost our most intense player. An intensity that lead to stupid things and that won't be missed. But we have to see if this team can actually fire itself up without him. They've needed to when he got suspended and that didn't happen. But now they've got to do it without him being there at all.

Goals get people pumped don't you get pumped for goals 16 goals for your most intense player ever ever ever is not that much. Trust me you will get to see a hit heck maybe even a fight this year.

 

[Pookie]

LOL

You constantly harped on the guy and wanted him traded, even before there was any reason or cause to.

It was a stupid position and always will be.

you did not have a good hockey read on this player, ever, and simply became entrenched in your position.

don't think for a second any of that has been validated simply because finally Kadri got moved, if that's what that cute little summary was supposed to be.

normalcy to the boards indeed...

If you got your news from Gary... then I can see how you came to view things as you do.

Let me show you actual words that highlight the interest in a D and moving on from players (JVR, Bozak and Komarov included) that are over their peak.

Dec 18, 2018

So this is what it looks like with 22 G 31A for 53 PTS

Polynomial Trend Line still shows a gradual descent has begun. Consistent with the age related performance data collected and studied.

There is an indication of slowing down. As age related performance data would show.

Here's where you get yourself all in bunches... it doesn't mean he's a crappy player. Even with declining production, he fits nicely into a 2C or 3C role on a variety of teams. He's still very, very capable on the PP. And though he doesn't hit as often any more... can still bring emotion into a game.

Just not as productive as he once was.

June 9, 2018

Don't gaslight.

I suggested that if JT comes we have depth and could trade Kadri for a player we need. Not some maintenance piece or a bag of pucks

July 29, 2018

Sure. C depth is a great thing. We would have a great strength up the middle provided Kadri doesn’t get himself suspended again or end up in a slump lasting longer than a 1/4 of the season.

Could be a blip or a trend. Don’t know

In going forward with that though, we are ending conversation about improving the D.

May 31, 2016

Your handful of examples does not outweigh mountains of data that clearly show skills decline and injury risk increases with age.

Nothing is a sure thing but ignorance of odds is not a responsible way to consider decisions.

JVR?

Consistently have said... and I believe you recall this... that the Leafs in their current state should consider moving players that are over 26 as they wont be peaking when the team is good.

Completely fine with JVR, Bozak and even Kadri being moved for pieces that will develop with the team.

 

[Schennanigans]

The jury is still out if this is a good trade. If Barrie is not re-signed it’s not looking that great anymore.

 

[Pookie]

The jury is still out if this is a good trade. If Barrie is not re-signed it’s not looking that great anymore.

Anything looks better than this:

 

[FlareKnight]

Wow, it is actually kind of sad how much personal hatred Pookie has for Kadri. No focus on the trade or what Barrie/Kerfoot are bringing. He's just happy a player he personally hates is gone.

Moving on from that sideshow. Here's hoping Kerfoot can grab that third line center spot. There's certainly the hope of it. Although even if he's on the wing for a while that's not the worst thing in the world. Just be handier if he comes through on that. Fingers crossed as well that Barrie both has a good year and that we can hold onto him. We do need some top 4 D beyond just Rielly. And a RD would especially be nice to hold onto. But best to see how this season plays out.

 

[Pookie]

Wow, it is actually kind of sad how much personal hatred Pookie has for Kadri. No focus on the trade or what Barrie/Kerfoot are bringing. He's just happy a player he personally hates is gone.

Moving on from that sideshow. Here's hoping Kerfoot can grab that third line center spot. There's certainly the hope of it. Although even if he's on the wing for a while that's not the worst thing in the world. Just be handier if he comes through on that. Fingers crossed as well that Barrie both has a good year and that we can hold onto him. We do need some top 4 D beyond just Rielly. And a RD would especially be nice to hold onto. But best to see how this season plays out.

You aren't reading are you?

If you have something to say.. perhaps you can say it directly?

I mean I clearly have articulated that the Leafs needed to address the D, suggested Kadri be parlayed for this help and clearly indicated that Dubas has done this as a function of this trade.

If you've got a beef.. at least make it rooted in reality.

 

[moon111]

I can think of players like Damphousse with Marois, Olyzyk with Leeman, Gilmour with Andreychuk, Bozak with Kessel, etc.

Kadri with? It's like he lasted with no one really. Maybe he's a swell guy, but his talent level always seems to be a lot higher
then any synergy created on one of his lines.

 

[Pookie]

I can think of players like Damphousse with Marois, Olyzyk with Leeman, Gilmour with Andreychuk, Bozak with Kessel, etc.

Kadri with? It's like he lasted with no one really. Maybe he's a swell guy, but his talent level always seems to be a lot higher
then any synergy created on one of his lines.

As a 2/3 C... I think his best partner was Komarov. I really think Leo challenged him and brought him confidence.

Once Leo was taken off his line, Kadri's hits per game dropped dramatically.

I think a lead role on the 2nd PP would have also brought out more from him.

 

[Buds17]

The jury is still out if this is a good trade. If Barrie is not re-signed it’s not looking that great anymore.

It's good that the trade wasn't simply Kadri for Barrie. Having Kerfoot under contract for four seasons hopefully brings solid value to the Leafs. I'd definitely agree with Barrie as the headlining piece of the deal from a Toronto standpoint though.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Not sure what team you watched last year. First off our 2C is too slow. With out speedy wingers to cover his mistakes, teams will burn us every time he is on the ice.

Our 2C is ether Matthews or Tavares I am not concerned

 

[Twowingcantfly]

As a 2/3 C... I think his best partner was Komarov. I really think Leo challenged him and brought him confidence.

Once Leo was taken off his line, Kadri's hits per game dropped dramatically.

I think a lead role on the 2nd PP would have also brought out more from him.

I think Kadri was holding it down. Trying to respond to Shanna plan. However you can only hold a difference maker down for long. It was unfortunate his stick stayed up when he was trying to bring it down. Darcy Tucker played a similar role. I doubt he would have received a similar suspension.

 

[dimi78]

As a 2/3 C... I think his best partner was Komarov. I really think Leo challenged him and brought him confidence.

Once Leo was taken off his line, Kadri's hits per game dropped dramatically.

I think a lead role on the 2nd PP would have also brought out more from him.

The part of the game many just don't understand... Komorov absolutely helped bring the best out of Kadri the same way Hyman helped bring more compete into Matthews. Many think it's Nylander that Matthews needs I'd argue it's Hyman he needs more. Somebody that helps bring him into the fight & compete for pucks and ice.

As for the trade, it improves the team for next season however if Barrie isn't re-signed it's a lost trade. Kadri isn't done just yet and he will do what he's always done prove people wrong in Colorodo.