Top-200 Hockey Players of All-Time - Preliminary Discussion Thread

[DitchMarner]

Sundin is my favorite player, but I don't know...

I mean, I guess it would be hard not to include him, but his peak in the NHL isn't one of the stronger ones for a big name player and while he was fine in the playoffs, he didn't really have a defining run. If someone is obsessed with things like top five Hart voting finishes, I can see him being left off. If you really like things like consistency, dependability and a solid overall game, he makes it. Other things in his favor are that he was clutch (ranks high in both GWGs and OT goals) and great Internationally.


I see him in the same tier as guys like Hossa, Robitaille, Alfredsson, Elias, Recchi, Shanny except he was a centre. At least some of these players will make some lists.

 

[VanIslander]

I see him in the same tier as guys like Hossa, Robitaille, Alfredsson, Elias, Recchi, Shanny except he was a centre. At least some of these players will make some lists.

Some? ....

I have them all!!!

And i have been accused of pimping early era and non-NHLers.

 

[ted2019]

Lemaire was in my top 100 I think...

Currently in the #120-130 range for me.

 

[ted2019]

Some? ....

I have them all!!!

And i have been accused of pimping early era and non-NHLers.

Out of those 6 players listed, I have 3-4 on my list.

 

[ted2019]

Sundin is my favorite player, but I don't know...

I mean, I guess it would be hard not to include him, but his peak in the NHL isn't one of the stronger ones for a big name player and while he was fine in the playoffs, he didn't really have a defining run. If someone is obsessed with things like top five Hart voting finishes, I can see him being left off. If you really like things like consistency, dependability and a solid overall game, he makes it. Other things in his favor are that he was clutch (ranks high in both GWGs and OT goals) and great Internationally.


I see him in the same tier as guys like Hossa, Robitaille, Alfredsson, Elias, Recchi, Shanny except he was a centre. At least some of these players will make some lists.

Sundin around 180-200 is fine with me.

 

[ted2019]

I have a name that I haven't seen yet and he's Bill Quackenbush.

Bio from Dreakmur:

Awards and Achievements:
Lady Byng Trophy Winner (1949)

3 x First Team All-Star (1946, 1948, 1951)
2 x Second Team All-Star (1947, 1953)


Hart - 10th(1948)
All-Star - 1st(1948), 1st(1949), 2nd(1951), 3rd(1947), 3rd(1953), 5th(1946), 7th(1950), 9th(1944)


Offensive Accomplishments:
Points - 2nd(1946), 2nd(1947), 2nd(1948), 2nd(1949), 3rd(1951), 4th(1950), 4th(1956), 7th(1952), 7th(1955), 9th(1945), 10th(1953)

Play-off Points - 1st(1952), 3rd(1949), 3rd(1953), 3rd(1955)


5 Year Peak: 1946 - 1950
1st in Points among Defensemen, 111% of 2nd place Pat Egan
1st in Goals among Defensemen, 106% of 2nd place Pat Egan
1st in Assists among Defensemen, 101% of 2nd place Ken Reardon

10 Year Peak: 1946 - 1955
3rd in Points among Defensemen, 96% of 2nd place Doug Harvey
3rd in Goals among Defensemen, 76% of 2nd place Bill Gadsby
4th in Assists among Defensemen, 90% of 2nd place Jimmy Thomson
3rd in Play-off Points among Defensemen, 69% of 2nd place Doug Harvey


Scoring Percentages:
Points among Defensemen - 100, 100, 100, 100, 81, 71, 65, 54, 53
Best 6 Seasons: 552

Ultimate Hockey's Best Poke-Checker of the 1950s

Boston Bruins Greatest Moments and Players said:

To the eyes of experts, Quackenbush was in his prime on the night of April 8, 1952. His defense work was as technically correct as any backliner of the post-World War II era, and his combative thirst was camoflaged by a seemingly mild disposition.
​

Hockey's 100 said:

Bill Quackenbush, a defenseman with both the Detroit Red Wings and Boston Bruins, was just such a gentleman. Like Red Kelly, another decorous Red Wings defenseman, Quackenbush was clean enough and competent enough to win the Lady Byng Trophy in 1949 while playing for a Detroit club notorious for such sluggers as Terrible Ted Lindsay and Black Jack Stewart.

Although the temptation to join the brawlers always was quite apparent, Quackenbush resisted the lure and played a pure defense. In so doing, he made a greater impact on the game than some of his more violent teammates.

More than anything, Quackenbush was an extraordinary practitioner of his art.​

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

So i can leave off Karlsson, Bure (neither knows how to play without the puck) an' Tony Esposito (so overrated due to great teams, he the weak link).

*whew*

Thanks man.

That would be a very questionable thing to do.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I have a name that I haven't seen yet and he's Bill Quackenbush.

Bio from Dreakmur:

Awards and Achievements:
Lady Byng Trophy Winner (1949)

3 x First Team All-Star (1946, 1948, 1951)
2 x Second Team All-Star (1947, 1953)


Hart - 10th(1948)
All-Star - 1st(1948), 1st(1949), 2nd(1951), 3rd(1947), 3rd(1953), 5th(1946), 7th(1950), 9th(1944)


Offensive Accomplishments:
Points - 2nd(1946), 2nd(1947), 2nd(1948), 2nd(1949), 3rd(1951), 4th(1950), 4th(1956), 7th(1952), 7th(1955), 9th(1945), 10th(1953)

Play-off Points - 1st(1952), 3rd(1949), 3rd(1953), 3rd(1955)


5 Year Peak: 1946 - 1950
1st in Points among Defensemen, 111% of 2nd place Pat Egan
1st in Goals among Defensemen, 106% of 2nd place Pat Egan
1st in Assists among Defensemen, 101% of 2nd place Ken Reardon

10 Year Peak: 1946 - 1955
3rd in Points among Defensemen, 96% of 2nd place Doug Harvey
3rd in Goals among Defensemen, 76% of 2nd place Bill Gadsby
4th in Assists among Defensemen, 90% of 2nd place Jimmy Thomson
3rd in Play-off Points among Defensemen, 69% of 2nd place Doug Harvey


Scoring Percentages:
Points among Defensemen - 100, 100, 100, 100, 81, 71, 65, 54, 53
Best 6 Seasons: 552

Ultimate Hockey's Best Poke-Checker of the 1950s

Boston Bruins Greatest Moments and Players said:

To the eyes of experts, Quackenbush was in his prime on the night of April 8, 1952. His defense work was as technically correct as any backliner of the post-World War II era, and his combative thirst was camoflaged by a seemingly mild disposition.​

Hockey's 100 said:

Bill Quackenbush, a defenseman with both the Detroit Red Wings and Boston Bruins, was just such a gentleman. Like Red Kelly, another decorous Red Wings defenseman, Quackenbush was clean enough and competent enough to win the Lady Byng Trophy in 1949 while playing for a Detroit club notorious for such sluggers as Terrible Ted Lindsay and Black Jack Stewart.

Although the temptation to join the brawlers always was quite apparent, Quackenbush resisted the lure and played a pure defense. In so doing, he made a greater impact on the game than some of his more violent teammates.

More than anything, Quackenbush was an extraordinary practitioner of his art.​

A sure thing, no?

 

[seventieslord]

So i can leave off Karlsson, Bure (neither knows how to play without the puck) an' Tony Esposito (so overrated due to great teams, he the weak link).

*whew*

Thanks man.

case in point.

 

[wetcoast]

A sure thing, no?

I wonder how JC Tremblay will fair as well as current guys like Doughty, Keith, Karlsson and some other guys that just missed the top 100 list?

Also how are guys going with slotting the pre (exclusively or majority of their careers) professional guys?

 

[MXD]

I wonder how JC Tremblay will fair as well as current guys like Doughty, Keith, Karlsson and some other guys that just missed the top 100 list?

Also how are guys going with slotting the pre (exclusively or majority of their careers) professional guys?

Keith made the Top-100.

 

[wetcoast]

Keith made the Top-100.

My bad i just glanced I should really do a positional list and check guys off.

my list at the moment isn't that organized.

 

[MXD]

Quackenbush should be discussed in the very first few rounds.

 

[ted2019]

A sure thing, no?

Yes, just thinking on what others think.

 

[ted2019]

I wonder how JC Tremblay will fair as well as current guys like Doughty, Keith, Karlsson and some other guys that just missed the top 100 list?

Also how are guys going with slotting the pre (exclusively or majority of their careers) professional guys?

Tremblay's on my list, just not a permanent home yet.

 

[wetcoast]

Tremblay's on my list, just not a permanent home yet.

JC was 40th on the top 60 Dman list but I wonder if that was a little high?

He seems to me to be a rather lucky right time right place guy like Larry Murphy?

Overall I think he makes my list near the end.

 

[Michael Farkas]

That's probably a little high from my recollection of Tremblay...

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Tremblay's on my list, just not a permanent home yet.

He's a solid on my list.

First and second team all-star, 5 time Cup winner. Excellent in the playoffs.

Then a whole other dominant career in the WHA including a championship.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

So i can leave off Karlsson, Bure (neither knows how to play without the puck) an' Tony Esposito (so overrated due to great teams, he the weak link).

I'll set the over-under for the Voting Round by which all three figure to be safely aboard at... the end of Round 2-Vote 5.

 

[VMBM]

Unrelated to Normie, I just buzzed through the 1978 World Championship Final (USSR vs Czechoslavkia). Some random thoughts...

Balderis - Really terrific hands and speed and deception to his game. He really uses some nice shoulder and head fakes - stuff that you see a lot now, not so much back then. Watch him at 28:27 on YT of '78 WC Final. I look at a lot of this stuff I'm doing now as if I was making a draft list. Let's say we're in the war room and we're debating what our list looks like (and not accounting for age), I'd think we might have a plurality - I'm not sure we'd get a full majority - but I suspect that Balderis would have the most support for #1 overall. He was the most technically skilled player in the game for me, he can do it at speed, he was the most explosive. There are guys that are close, but I could support this guy at 1 and sleep like a baby.

Fetisov - Mistake eraser. Great hockey sense. Young Fetisov, you can already see shades of Doug Harvey. Does a nice job controlling the tempo. Might be the smartest player out there already. He's just 20 or so for this game which is crazy. Wasn't exactly paired with a world beater either in Tsygankov.

If you're looking for a defensive guy, Pervukhin is very smart and plays with his means as opposed to Vasiliev. I'd look there. No idea what his career accolades look like. But again if I'm treating this like it's a draft, and if I was trying to draft a defensive d-man for some reason, I'd be leaning towards Pervukhin over VV, even if I feel like the skill upside slightly favors VV, it's not enough to offset some of his blunders.

Maltsev - Is a hell of a talent, he can get out of tight spots. Good timing for the game. He can really operate in the half boards area, kind of a late Gretzky turn scenario. I could see a couple of guys saying he's got a case for #1...I can't get there. But I could see how someone might.

Kharlamov - Obviously a monster. I can't find a game where he isn't one of the best players. He'd be a guy that I'd think would have some support for first overall.

Young Makarov doesn't play much, but you can see he's following in the footsteps of Kharlamov. Doesn't quite have the wheels or the skill of Kharlamov right now, doesn't quite get it yet. But there's a foundation that's strong.

Martinec - Terrific talent, can make multi-line carries with terrific speed. Can operate at top speed too (unlike Kapustin on the USSR side, he also has terrific hands, but his feet have to stop moving too much for him to execute his skill plays). His combo with Novak keeps the Czechs alive without Pospisil and Suchy, I still don't know how they're still so competitive without those d-men. This is the other guy I'm thinking would have wooed scouts enough to claim he's #1. He also has much less help than Balderis and Kharlamov...particularly in terms of outlet passing. I saw him out there with Augusta at times as his third wheel...like I said, it's a wonder he kept them as competitive as he did...

Hlinka - It's a shame he's not a better skater. He's smart and pretty skilled - nice shot. But his square wheels hold him back for me.

Young Stastny left me wanting a bit more...he started to impress a little bit more as the game moved on. But when I heard his name, I expected better. Still just a pup though.

##

The jump from the '69 Soviet Team and the '76 Canada Cup nonsense that they put out is striking here. You can really see it starting to come together. Holecek scares the hell out of me, just a wild card...I think I'll take Dzurilla. Novy didn't play in the first half of the game, heard him referred to as the "Czech Bobby Clarke" during CC '76...

Sorry to include some top 100 players, I just take note when someone stands out. I think I can confirm that Balderis belongs on this list, so does Martinec...Maltsev got hurt, so I'd want more there...but he probably was good enough too...

A nice write-up. It's one of the USSR vs Czechoslovakia games that I've watched many times, so it is interesting to read another take on it (keep 'em coming, if possible!). It was an extremely important game for Soviet hockey and its future. If they had lost, it would have been the third world championship loss in a row; quite a disaster...

I would just add a couple of things:

Vladimir Petrov (and Boris Mikhailov)
Overall, Petrov had a poor WHC in 1978 (only 4 points in 8 games); he also injured his foot in the group game vs Sweden, so he missed a couple of games and was not 100 %. Having said that, I think he played brilliantly in the deciding game vs CSSR; especially his penalty killing with Mikhailov, plus Fetisov and Tsygankov on defense made a big impression on me; they didn't really give the CSSR players too many chances to score, and on top of that, Petrov scored that classic shorthanded goal in the 2nd period. He, and the rest, did a brilliant job at styming the Czechs during the closing moments of the game too. IMO he and Mikhailov were better than Kharlamov in this game (overall, I do favor Kharlamov clearly over both).

Fetisov
The barely 20-year old Fetisov is indeed impressive in the game. The only negative thing for me is that his passing skills weren't quite on the level that they would be later on, a few bad passes not only in this game but in the other games that I've seen from the 1978 WHC.

Aleksandr and Vladimir Golikov
They impressed me in this game, like in many other games in 1978-80. Their line with Maltsev (and later on, young Makarov on the Soviet national team) was one of the best Soviet 3rd lines ever.

Yeah, Novy being called the "Czech Bobby Clarke", that's a strange one... I think it was something that the Czechoslovaks themselves said to the Canadian media during the 1976 CC. Still, it is hard to see too much resemblance; Novy was more of a goal-scorer, Clarke more of a playmaker and much better defensive player of course. And I've never seen Novy being described as dirty.

 

[ted2019]

He's a solid on my list.

First and second team all-star, 5 time Cup winner. Excellent in the playoffs.

Then a whole other dominant career in the WHA including a championship.

I don't put too much stock in the WHA run.

 

[ted2019]

I have a few possible borderline defensemen.
Pat Stapleton
Ken Reardon
Tom Johnson
Larry Murphy
Allan Stanley
Ebbie Goodfellow
Lester Patrick
Art Coulter

 

[Michael Farkas]

A nice write-up. It's one of the USSR vs Czechoslovakia games that I've watched many times, so it is interesting to read another take on it (keep 'em coming, if possible!). It was an extremely important game for Soviet hockey and its future. If they had lost, it would have been the third world championship loss in a row; quite a disaster...

I would just add a couple of things:

Vladimir Petrov (and Boris Mikhailov)
Overall, Petrov had a poor WHC in 1978 (only 4 points in 8 games); he also injured his foot in the group game vs Sweden, so he missed a couple of games and was not 100 %. Having said that, I think he played brilliantly in the deciding game vs CSSR; especially his penalty killing with Mikhailov, plus Fetisov and Tsygankov on defense made a big impression on me; they didn't really give the CSSR players too many chances to score, and on top of that, Petrov scored that classic shorthanded goal in the 2nd period. He, and the rest, did a brilliant job at styming the Czechs during the closing moments of the game too. IMO he and Mikhailov were better than Kharlamov in this game (overall, I do favor Kharlamov clearly over both).

Fetisov
The barely 20-year old Fetisov is indeed impressive in the game. The only negative thing for me is that his passing skills weren't quite on the level that they would be later on, a few bad passes not only in this game but in the other games that I've seen from the 1978 WHC.

Aleksandr and Vladimir Golikov
They impressed me in this game, like in many other games in 1978-80. Their line with Maltsev (and later on, young Makarov on the Soviet national team) was one of the best Soviet 3rd lines ever.

Yeah, Novy being called the "Czech Bobby Clarke", that's a strange one... I think it was something that the Czechoslovaks themselves said to the Canadian media during the 1976 CC. Still, it is hard to see too much resemblance; Novy was more of a goal-scorer, Clarke more of a playmaker and much better defensive player of course. And I've never seen Novy being described as dirty.

Yeah, Petrov is interesting to me, but I didn't feel like I could confidently get a good read on his game through out...there were times where I was like, "meh, this is just a close range scorer and not super discernible from the other second-tier players on this team..." and then a couple shifts later, I'll marvel at some precision pass made from the boards into the interior and it turned out to be Petrov...so I thought it would be better just to catch him next time around than to fumble through it. Balderis stole the show for me anyhow...

I agree with all the rest of that too...particularly the Golikovs, who I had virtually no knowledge of prior to this...they had a strong showing, read off each other predictably well...maybe they're the senior version of our Chris and Peter Ferraro of World Junior fame haha

I'm trying to think of who is left pre-1980 that I didn't get good eyes on yet...I think Petrov, Mikhailov, and Yakushev might be it...but I'm open to others that may qualify...I also haven't bothered with any Swedes or Finns or Kuhnhackl, I guess there's gotta be a couple there worth a watch too...

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I don't put too much stock in the WHA run.

Tremblay was 34 when he jumped to the WHA. He was still the best defenseman in the league.

Doesn't hurt his case.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I have a few possible borderline defensemen.
Pat Stapleton
Ken Reardon
Tom Johnson
Larry Murphy
Allan Stanley
Ebbie Goodfellow
Lester Patrick
Art Coulter

I've got 4 of those guys, but not Pat Stapleton. Another defenseman who jumped to the WHA

I need to reconsider him as well as Bill White.