Top 100 Forwards in the NHL

[Sidney the Kidney]

I could buy this for a rookie but we have 3 seasons of sample size so this feels like reaching.

It's not reaching when said player has never actually achieved those levels of production before. If Matthews had already had a 50-goal campaign or had already won a Rocket, then you could argue his "pace" would have held because he'd proven that he was capable of actually reaching those totals before.

Matthews' actual career highs (ie. totals he has ACTUALLY proven he can hit) are 40 goals and 73 points. Any season he paced for higher than that, it would be based on something he hasn't proven yet. Harder to give him the benefit of the doubt than, say, if Ovechkin "paces" for 50 goals over 65 games this next season and arguing that he would have hit 50 if he didn't miss 17 games because he's actually proven over 82 games he has scored 50+ before.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So to be clear, goals are real goals. Goals per minute are pure fiction and not rooted in reality whatsoever? Using NHL trophies as the basis for your argument also isn't a great argument

To be clear, goals actually scored are officially things you achieved. Goals per game doesn't mean you would actually reach those totals over 82 games, it just means in the games you played you managed to score at that pace.

Again, nobody would call Crosby a "64 goal player" because he didn't actually score 64 goals at any point in his career, even though his "goals per game" in the 2010-11 season were that of a 64 goal man.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

To be clear, goals actually scored are officially things you achieved. Goals per game doesn't mean you would actually reach those totals over 82 games, it just means in the games you played you managed to score at that pace.

Again, nobody would call Crosby a "64 goal player" because he didn't actually score 64 goals at any point in his career, even though his "goals per game" in the 2010-11 season were that of a 64 goal man.

Yes, nobody would do that. I've never seen a single person act like goals per game or goals per minute are anything but descriptive. I'm not sure why you're seeking out to prove it's not a linear projection, when nobody treats it that way

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yes, nobody would do that. I've never seen a single person act like goals per game or goals per minute are anything but descriptive. I'm not sure why you're seeking out to prove it's not a linear projection, when nobody treats it that way

I mean, this whole discussion is about how Mathews is on par with Ovechkin and I said the only way you can conclude that is if you use rates, per/60 or on pace arguments. Actual goal production, he's not.

Fact is, until Matthews actually out-scores Ovechkin - ACTUAL goals, not just at a better pace over 60 games -- then he's not on par with him. Being "on pace" to score a certain amount doesn't put you on par with someone who actually proved they could score that amount.

 

[jetsforever]

Seems like an alright list

 

[Kamiccolo]

It's not reaching when said player has never actually achieved those levels of production before. If Matthews had already had a 50-goal campaign or had already won a Rocket, then you could argue his "pace" would have held because he'd proven that he was capable of actually reaching those totals before.

Matthews' actual career highs (ie. totals he has ACTUALLY proven he can hit) are 40 goals and 73 points. Any season he paced for higher than that, it would be based on something he hasn't proven yet. Harder to give him the benefit of the doubt than, say, if Ovechkin "paces" for 50 goals over 65 games this next season and arguing that he would have hit 50 if he didn't miss 17 games because he's actually proven over 82 games he has scored 50+ before.

lol he literally placed 2nd for the rocket in his rookie year. Not surprised you are the one discounting all of his accomplishments though.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

What's your favorite 2 or 3 player chunk of this list?

This is mine:

48. P. Laine- Winnipeg
49. A. Radulov- Dallas

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

lol he literally placed 2nd for the rocket in his rookie year. Not surprised you are the one discounting all of his accomplishments though.

I'm discounting his accomplishments because I think a player has to actually reach a certain total in order to be credited for it rather than pacing for it? Congrats, he finished 2nd in the Rocket trophy race one time. Ovechkin's won it twice over the past two years, yet you think they're "neck and neck".

It's funny how quickly the personal shots come out when someone dares disagree with Leaf fans about Matthews.

 

[Kamiccolo]

I'm discounting his accomplishments because I think a player has to actually reach a certain total in order to be credited for it rather than pacing for it? Congrats, he finished 2nd in the Rocket trophy race one time. Ovechkin's won it twice over the past two years, yet you think they're "neck and neck".

It's funny how quickly the personal shots come out when someone dares disagree with Leaf fans about Matthews.

It's not a hard f***ing concept lol. I don't think they are neck and neck. They ARE neck in neck in goals since Matthews joined the league. Just because you don't want it to be so, doesn't mean you can ignore 3 seasons worth of production pacing that. And to top it off, Matthews doesn't play with anyone near as good at dishing the puck as Backstrom (and last year played with worse linemates than most stars in the league)

 

[nbwingsfan]

Great, now do the last 3 seasons and tell me who has done better. Hint: it's Matthews. That's when he's a rookie and and playing with far worse linemates. What's weird is your cherry picking of stats to make Bergeron look like a better player than Matthews. You can cherry pick the last two seasons all you want, but the fact is that last season was a complete outlier for Bergeron. He's had a long career so far, and he is far worse at producing offensively than Matthews. Bergeron's 14+ seasons of not hitting ppg is a far bigger sample size of 1 season when he's 33 years old. He didn't all of a sudden become a better offensive player at 33. He just needed better linemates.

As for the playoffs, again you're singling out a single playoff series (7 games) and you're talking about the whole Boston line vs the whole Toronto line. Not really a strong argument.

How exactly did I cherry pick the last two years when I literally listed all of their stats?

We’re not talking about Bergeron 6 years ago, were not talking about potential. The list is asking who is the best players RIGHT NOW.

Bergeron has been just as good offensively while blowing Matthews out of the water defensively and neutralizing him in the playoffs over the last two seasons.

Matthews will likely be a better player over his career, but he isn’t there yet.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I don't think that's true, or at the very least that's a minor reason as to why he's been more productive. Bergeron has been their best centerman for a while. While Krejci was also good and used offensively, he's had injury troubles in the past and Bergeron was their go to guy. He never put up numbers like this before. Same with Marchand.

When Cassidy came on he put the trio together and they started lighting things up. Why wouldn't he play them more in that situation? Clearly the skill for both Bergeron and Marchand was always there, but they needed Pastrnak to really let it out. They couldn't do it when it was just them two together.

Matthews proved he could do it by himself last season. I personally think that Matthews is a better player than Bergeron overall, but I won't say that it's not up for debate. However if we're talking about strictly offense, anyone who thinks Bergeron is better than Matthews is completely out to lunch.

You must agree that Pastrnak is better than Matthews then if he can turn Marchand/Bergeron from 50 and 60pt players into 100pt players? No?

 

[Yackiberg8]

He scored over 60 points 5 times prior to these past two seasons, including seasons of 73 and 70 points. He also scored 32 in 42 in the lockout season (around a 60 point pace).

I think it's a bit misleading to call him a "50-60 point guy for the first 13 seasons of his career".

I guess that’s bad wording, was going for 50s and 60s point guy as in the range from 50-70.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Mikael Backlund should be on the list. He's better than plenty. It's a pretty good list overall. Better than I could do.

This is a wise man.

 

[Yackiberg8]

You must agree that Pastrnak is better than Matthews then if he can turn Marchand/Bergeron from 50 and 60pt players into 100pt players? No?

???? Maybe google the name Brad Marchand.

 

[Yackiberg8]

How exactly did I cherry pick the last two years when I literally listed all of their stats?

We’re not talking about Bergeron 6 years ago, were not talking about potential. The list is asking who is the best players RIGHT NOW.

Bergeron has been just as good offensively while blowing Matthews out of the water defensively and neutralizing him in the playoffs over the last two seasons.

Matthews will likely be a better player over his career, but he isn’t there yet.

Matthews lead the Leafs in scoring this playoffs which included 5 goals in 7 games.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Good effort, everyone's going to say BUT MY TEAM'S PLAYERS IS TOO LOW, including me, but that's the nature of the beast.

 

[Juicy Pop]

Save yourself the trouble and just do a tier list of the top-100.

 

[nbwingsfan]

???? Maybe google the name Brad Marchand.

Maybe try and re-read his post where he said Marchand/Bergeron couldn’t put it together without Pastrnak.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Matthews lead the Leafs in scoring this playoffs which included 5 goals in 7 games.

Yes, and Bergeron’s line was not paired against Matthews line this post season.

See 17/18 for results of when they were though.

There were countless Leaf fans defending his 17/18 post season by saying of course he struggled because he was up against Bergeron.

 

[Yackiberg8]

Yes, and Bergeron’s line was not paired against Matthews line this post season.

See 17/18 for results of when they were though.

There were countless Leaf fans defending his 17/18 post season by saying of course he struggled because he was up against Bergeron.

Yet you wrote that he neutralized him in the playoffs this past season...

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yet you wrote that he neutralized him in the playoffs this past season...

No, I wrote everything he did over the last two seasons, including neutralizing him in 17/18

 

[TheAngryHank]

Giroux is top 10, without a doubt top 15.

And Larkin should be higher.

 

[ijif]

I mean, this whole discussion is about how Mathews is on par with Ovechkin and I said the only way you can conclude that is if you use rates, per/60 or on pace arguments. Actual goal production, he's not.

Fact is, until Matthews actually out-scores Ovechkin - ACTUAL goals, not just at a better pace over 60 games -- then he's not on par with him. Being "on pace" to score a certain amount doesn't put you on par with someone who actually proved they could score that amount.

You should really check the definition of the word fact.

 

[LamorielloAndSon]

Are these supposed to be ranked?

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Kane below MacKinnon is a joke. He's also better than Ovechkin.

MacKinnon continues to be the most overrated player in the league AINEC

I completely agree. No one wants to acknowledge that he’s getting overrated and I like the guy but he is.

He gets a lot of his praise because of the Canadian media, I get he’s the center in the line and is fast out there but my god Rantanen is a beast out there too and has way better numbers starting his career And landeskog is a great puck possession player. In fact landeskog is good at everything.

Mackinnon was a 60ish or less pt guy for Like half decade then boom Rantanen shows up and he doubles, yes Doubles his production. Now he’s a top three forward I guess.


Eichel that low is a joke. Draisaitl ten spots above Eichel is hilarious. I’m sorry but Draisaitl couldn’t anchor a second line when he was tasked with this assignment by two different coaches and gets to play with the best player in the league who gift wraps him so many glorious scoring chances. amazing season absolutely but a lot of
Those points on those 3 on 3,s with Connor the powerplay with Connor the first line with Connor, he’s like a magnet. There’s a reason he can’t play on the second line. He absolutely needs Connor. I know their weren’t scoring wingers in Edmonton on line two, that didn’t stop Eichel from scoring at a point per game clip with girgensens and Rodrigues as linemates when he had a league low scoring team. Mackinnon had an awful season when this was the case for him. But for Eichel? Nah he only got 64 in 67 with a team outside him that scored 173 goals. Also this guys list His criteria was last year wasn’t going to be everything so not sure why a guy who’s literally in the best spot to get points (with mcdavid) is above a guy who is in the worst so spot to get points in Eichel. Playing on the worst teams that barely score.



Fact: Eichel has scored 201 pts in his last 203 games in the past three years despite always facing the best defensemen every shift, an awful supporting cast and two sprained ankles. And he’s not even 23. Before going down in injury in December 2018 Jack Eichel lead the league in shoes (still finished top five despite missing here weeks and with that was also very high in scoring chances as well) he lead the league in multi point games behind only Mackinnon and Rantanen with 17 at the time in December. He was third in primary assists only behind mcdavid and marner. He as fifth in offensive zone possession only behind Panarin mcdavid and Barzal. He was he highest scoring eastern center not names Brayden point. He was third in total assists, he was 7th in total points, was over a plus 5 (which is like a plus fifteen difference from previous seasons completely change going his defensive game while becoming captain) amongst other things while remaining a top skater and transition player. Also the captain of a team that was first place in the entire NHL.


He also finished the season as the only player in the top 25 to not have a single
Teammate get over 63 points.

But yeah let’s rank Leon “I get twenty mcdavid chances” a period Draisaitl above that. I wouldn’t be remotely upset or even typing out this stuff if this was one guys opinion but apparently all those who don’t watch a bad buffalo team and completely don’t realize the absurd nature that is Jack Eichel on the ice think this is true too. Draisaitl won a poll, my god...Lol!

All you have to do is Just think Of it like this.Eichel had mcdavid ...and Draisaitl wAs the top center on the sabres take away all the ooonts he got because of mcdavid and now take Eichel and out him with mcdavid. I mean you honestly don’t think that would make up the ten Pts both ways to make up that twenty point difference last year? I don’t even want to imagine his point totals in that scenario because it would clearly make him a top 2-3 player in the game. I mean just thinking of all the chances eichels teammates fan on due to incompetence is infuriating, give him a great player and he would improve on his 82 in 77 this year. He finally gets a pretty good one in skinner and Jeff had 32 goals by the all star break. Anyway ....people will see in time. I told them he was better then barzal, the fans who don’t watch Eichel said no, I was right. I said he was better the. Laine, the fans who don’t watch Eichel said no, I was
Right. And I’m right here too. I’m fine with. Barkov and maybe Matthews or Mackinnon (even though his career numbers are better then Mackinnon points per game with less help and pretty close to Matthews with less
Help) but Draisaitl, just give it up and face the situations with a clear head. I won’t say Scheifele is better because he’s got wheeler and ton of help on that PP especially Kyle Connor but they’re
In the same tier. But these are players
I can respect the opinion but Draisaitl. Good god.