Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo: Part V

[SnowblindNYR]

Literally me.

I post a dozen times a year for 15 years, and this is the shit I find uncomfortable and post on for no discernable reason. I just can't stand idly by.

I literally said, it's not excusable. You shouldn't use that word regardless. I made a distinction between calling a gay person that as a slur and just using it as an insult, that's it. I'm not sure if Avery is gay, if he is I take it back because then it's a slur. It's not that complicated. And regardless how old was Simmonds and how old was TDA? That argument was asinine to begin with because one was a man and one was a kid.

 

[mas0764]

If someone cried about a white supremacist being banned from Twitter, while threatening to join a social media network for primarily white supremacists, yeah I would tend to think that guy is a bit racist.

I think I see the problem.

 

[Kendo]

To be fair, Avery has a long, documented history of being a deplorable human himself. It wouldn't surprise me if he threw a thinly veiled racist comment (or as some commentators might call it, a "well-researched chirp") at Simmonds. It doesn't excuse the response/choice of words, but when someone is dealing with that sort of shit their entire lives and are given another pointed nudge, at some point enough is enough and you don't give a shit what you say because you want to hurt whoever as much as possible, or direct the most offensive thing you can think of towards them.

Avery's a dick, but I assure you he never chirped racist bs. He went personal instead.

You're literally imagining an excuse for Simmonds that doesn't exist. Says more about you than even him, tbh.

 

[Kendo]

I literally said, it's not excusable. You shouldn't use that word regardless. I made a distinction between calling a gay person that as a slur and just using it as an insult, that's it. I'm not sure if Avery is gay, if he is I take it back because then it's a slur. It's not that complicated. And regardless how old was Simmonds and how old was TDA? That argument was asinine to begin with because one was a man and one was a kid.

By your logic, you can call any white dude an n-word, and it's okay. What a garbage take, my guy.

 

[JT Kreider]

If someone cried about a white supremacist being banned from Twitter, while threatening to join a social media network for primarily white supremacists, yeah I would tend to think that guy is a bit racist.

Not all 45 supporters are white supremacists, but all white supremacists are 45 supporters.

There is a large contingent who just liked him because they hate Democrats and this was finally their chance to take back America and this was the best 4 years of their life even though 45 really didnt do anything to make it that way. The sensible ones at least recognized the cost of that behavior after 1/6. Hopefully Tony sees the light.

 

[Kendo]

Just close it down. It's close enough to 1,000 posts.

 

[nyrleetch]

I think I see the problem.

If Tony defended half as well as his defenders on here he would be a heck of a player.

 

[Overcast]

Avery's a dick, but I assure you he never chirped racist bs. He went personal instead.

You're literally imagining an excuse for Simmonds that doesn't exist. Says more about you than even him, tbh.

So what did Avery say then? How are you so sure he went personal? Do you know both Simmonds and Avery personally to know what was said from both sides?

I'm imaging possible situations that could have occurred because neither you nor I have all the information of that incident. When else has Simmonds lashed out at someone like that? I'm sure he's taken his fair share of chirping, yet Avery somehow managed to cross a line and made Simmonds go off. Hm..definitely no possibility that it could be anything close to a racist comment.

What does it say about me, that I'm saying players of color endure racism in hockey? Look no further than our own K'Andre Miller if you want another example of that.

Edit: Just doing some quick google searches, there was an early 2000s incident where George Laraque accused Avery of calling him a "monkey" and Alex Frolov echoing that by saying Avery would "call opponents black monkeys on the ice." Avery wasn't above saying racist things.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

By your logic, you can call any white dude an n-word, and it's okay. What a garbage take, my guy.

Wow, talk about a strawman. I said like 10 times it's not ok and he shouldn't have said it, and it was inexcusable. I said calling someone gay a f***** and calling a straight person that as an insult is different. One thing is bad and one thing is worse. But you're taking what I said and are distorting it.

 

[Kendo]

Wow, talk about a strawman. I said like 10 times it's not ok and he shouldn't have said it, and it was inexcusable. I said calling someone gay a f***** and calling a straight person that as an insult is different. One thing is bad and one thing is worse. But you're taking what I said and are distorting it.

It's not a strawman. The words are very similar but you call one inexcusable, yet make excuses for the other.

If you call a straight guy a gay slur, it's fine...by your logic. Your words.
I equated that to calling a white dude the n-word. I was pointing out your own hypocrisy, not bringing up an unrelated point. That's not what a strawman argument is. Keep up.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It's not a strawman. The words are very similar but you call one inexcusable, yet make excuses for the other.

If you call a straight guy a gay slur, it's fine...by your logic. Your words.
I equated that to calling a white dude the n-word. I was pointing out your own hypocrisy, not bringing up an unrelated point. That's not what a strawman argument is. Keep up.

I said it was inexcusable for Simmonds to say it even Avery isn't gay. I just said that there's a difference between that and if he were gay. It's called nuance. And regardless this is a TDA thread, I won't lose sleep about a 16/17 year old saying the word to another hockey player. If you don't realize that teenagers are immature and say stupid shit I don't know what to tell you. I probably didn't need to add that part about Simmonds. But you compared a guy as an adult and TDA as a kid. If you can't tell the difference I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Conbon]

Get this guy out of the league

 

[Kendo]

So what did Avery say then? How are you so sure he went personal? Do you know both Simmonds and Avery personally to know what was said from both sides?

He said shit directly to the media, were you not aware??? I just had to be plugged in as an NHL fan at large to see it. And where did your unsubstantiated edit go where you claimed that he called Laraque a monkey? Huh? Where's that link? Is it this article that ended up proving my point?

(Circa 2011, 5ish years after the alleged offense.)

 

[SnowblindNYR]

As I said I probably shouldn't have added that part when talking about Simmonds because as I said as an adult it was inexcusable, the but pearl clutching over TDA saying something stupid is ridiculous.

 

[Kendo]

Look back at every post I've made. I like the player, and would want him on this team long term if we didn't have (pick two out of) Trouba, Fox, Lundkvist, Schneider.

I have WAY less of a problem with his using poor language as a 16 yo than I do with posters in their 30s saying that "It's not so bad, as long as the target isn't gay." That shit's garbage.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Look back at every post I've made. I like the player, and would want him on this team long term if we didn't have (pick two out of) Trouba, Fox, Lundkvist, Schneider.

I have WAY less of a problem with his using poor language as a 16 yo than I do with posters in their 30s saying that "It's not so bad, as long as the target isn't gay." That shit's garbage.

Not so bad and not as bad are two different things. But this isn't a "bicker about semantics" thread, so we should probably move on from this conversation.

 

[Overcast]

He said shit directly to the media, were you not aware??? I just had to be plugged in as an NHL fan at large to see it. And where did your unsubstantiated edit go where you claimed that he called Laraque a monkey? Huh? Where's that link? Is it this article that ended up proving my point?
View attachment 388054
(Circa 2011, 5ish years after the alleged offense.)

If you google "Sean Avery racist comment" there's about 500 articles that come up. You can look through all of those if you want, I'm not going to link each one since I read through more than a handful. I'm not quite sure what you think the picture you posted proves either. To me it shows that he was repeatedly involved in a number of incidents with different players where he was accused of seriously crossing a line. What would those guys have gained from making that up, to ruin Avery's already shit reputation? Where there's smoke, there's most likely fire. Just because the NHL didn't reprimand Avery doesn't mean a whole lot considering other things the league has turned a blind eye to. But I'm going to bow out of this conversation since this has nothing to do with ADA.

 

[ThirdEye]

He's been trying too hard and forcing everything, not too disimilar to some other players on the team. I like him but I suspect Fox and Miller will steal away all of his PP time soon and crush any chance for him to have a repeat of last season

 

[Shesterkybomb]

So now that Fox has taken the top pp unit, where can we move this defensive black hole?

 

[mas0764]

So now that Fox has taken the top pp unit, where can we move this defensive black hole?

I think the Yandle comparisons are possibly apt. Should try to rehab is value before shipping him.

 

[Waivers]

We’re lucky to have him. He is always driving the play up the rink and immediately out of our zone when he has it. Whether he is skating to create room or giving very nice outlet/two-line passes. That is very valuable.

Where I struggle with him is in the playoffs. He is a small defenseman, and he has more offensive prowess than he does defensive.

Like Carolina did, they just targeted Fox and DeAngelo.

DeAngelo was banged up and couldn’t skate any longer. He was practically rendered useless.

I do believe he has a lot of value in the league, but with our finesse Fox, and smallish Lindgren (who I’m OK with because he plays a big physical game) there isn’t a burning desire to keep DeAngelo.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Worried about this guy now that he's not on the top PP unit. Let's be real, he's really a pure offensive defensemen. His value is going to tank if he's not putting up points. Plenty of RD in the pipeline that could jump him in the lineup next year. Kind of makes me wonder if moving him is an absolute necessesity this year.

 

[True Blue]

So now that Fox has taken the top pp unit, where can we move this defensive black hole?

I still think that PP1 looks better with DeAngelo

 

[Ruggs225]

I love Deangelo. Wish he played better recently though.

i also love Miller.

wait, am i allowed to love both players? I mean one is a racist and the other is black. I cant possibly like both. Can i?

Can some elitist please tell me who i can like and why i can like said person?

Also please let me know who i must hate. Its getting to hard to think for myself and have my own feelings. Its better when u and the government can tell me.

 

[charliemurphy]

Worried about this guy now that he's not on the top PP unit. Let's be real, he's really a pure offensive defensemen. His value is going to tank if he's not putting up points. Plenty of RD in the pipeline that could jump him in the lineup next year. Kind of makes me wonder if moving him is an absolute necessesity this year.

No doubt. Just a matter of time.