Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo: Part V

[eco's bones]

I don't think he gets what many of us would like but a lot will depend on his offense on the ice and not off of it if a trade does happen . I just wish he would shut up and play hockey and I have been one of his supporters on here for a couple of seasons now. He is driving his own bus.....

Eventually it's the contract that is going to force Tony out. We're looking at at least three years of a flat ceiling and Tony will need a new deal in two---and when you have quality replacements who are going to come in on ELC's how are we going to give Tony another raise? Money is going to be tight and smart teams make their ELC's and second contracts work for them. Tony is a good player but again his defending is nothing to brag about and pretty much the rest of the league knows that too. He is an excellent offensive defenseman who is a subpar defender. Rangers have other options that should be able to run the power play with maybe not so many defensive issues coming in cheaper.

I won't even say the Rangers won't move Trouba some day as another odd man out--maybe they will but they'll move Tony well before that.

 

[Cmox]

View attachment 388168

This. This right here is the perfect post for this thread.

 

[bernmeister]

I think that both DeAngelo and Lundqvist will be moved. Just seems like that is the way that Gorton, JD & Quinn are building the team. But there is no rush right now. I think that DeAngelo is here for the entire year.

Nils L goes nowhere anytime soon.

 

[eco's bones]

fighting a losing battle here

it’s love or hate no in between

but again, assuming that lundkvist or now Schneider will just replace the ADA production is silly.

Also, lundkvist is small like fox and deanegelo. All 3 are under 6 ft and 200 lbs. Of the 3 right NOW, tony is the most accomplished offensively playing against nhl players. He did last season what very few players have done and did what a few Norris trophy guys did. That’s sayin something.

tonys got the production numbers.

assuming anyone is just going to be better defensively because deangelo is “ so bad” isn’t actually a good take. Assuming anyone can replace Tony’s production is equally weak.

hes runs his mouth and has an opinion. So what ?

he’s the best passer on the team along with Adam fox and he’s able to overcome his defensive warts with stelar production.

other than beingkind of a cocky mouthy conservative, he’s a very very good hockey player and that’s what wins games.

Actually I think we can assume a lot of young defensemen entering the league in the next several years will be better defensively than Tony DeAngelo. Probably very few though who will be as offensively talented. That's the thing with him--there is a trade off in those areas.

....and again I don't think we can afford to throw away the futures of young developing guys like Lundkvist or Schneider on ELC's and second contracts to give Tony bigger and bigger contracts. It doesn't make sense to me at all. These are really good prospects that we're already invested heavily in and especially with a flat cap ceiling for at least 3 and maybe more years.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Actually I think we can assume a lot of young defensemen entering the league in the next several years will be better defensively than Tony DeAngelo. Probably very few though who will be as offensively talented. That's the thing with him--there is a trade off in those areas.

....and again I don't think we can afford to throw away the futures of young developing guys like Lundkvist or Schneider on ELC's and second contracts to give Tony bigger and bigger contracts. It doesn't make sense to me at all. These are really good prospects that we're already invested heavily in and especially with a flat cap ceiling for at least 3 and maybe more years.

he’s here for 2 yrs

right around the time the others will be/ may be ready to become nhl regulars

 

[bernmeister]

he’s here for 2 yrs

right around the time the others will be/ may be ready to become nhl regulars

he's here for as long as it takes for us to unload him.

Schneid is too green, but we can re-eval how far he's behind after next season.

Nils L has excelled as a boy playing among men in a Swedish league that is one of the best in the world.
Methinks he is not much more unready than other most who are breaking in now.

I understand, some guys can handle baptism under fire, others not so much.

But holding vets like Namest, Deangelo, pushing for too much for Strome, it takes mins away from guys who need it.

Too many effing line changes.
Too many guys for too few spots.

Mo mins = increased familiarity = better chemistry = mo production.
Get rid of the extra vets beginning w/Deangelo
Get down to an essential core.

 

[Ori]

Can we move him or NMC in his contract?

 

[MysticLeviathan]

It’s hard to gauge how much his trade value is being hit by his poor play. I can’t help but think that teams understand that he is being grossly improperly utilized, and a better system with a better partner will help him out tremendously. I mean they keep sending him out with Jack Johnson for f***’s sake and he’s now on the 2nd PP unit where on most teams he’d be the #1 PP defenseman.

I do think a trade in the next 12 months is extremely likely. It’s hard to figure out Gorton’s long term plan.

 

[Vitto79]

TDA needs PP minutes to succeed . Fox can do the job and Lundkvist isn’t far behind

trade TDA for a 2C or top 4 LD

package w Strome and see who else could use a shake up

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Decision-making aside (which almost certainly is partially due to playing with JJ), Tony looks different physically to me. He looks smaller, his skating is slower and his hands aren’t moving at the speed they normally do. A few times last night he went to throw a hit and just bounced off the other player.

I wonder how active he was in the offseason.

 

[True Blue]

Nils L goes nowhere anytime soon.

Depends on your definition of what "soon" is. In reading the tea leaves, I do not believe that Gorton & JD are interested in having two smallish defensemen on the same side. I do not believe that Trouba is going anywhere anytime soon and Schneider seems to be more in the mold of a defense that they are trying to build. Which leaves Fox and Lundqvist. Since I do not believe that Fox is going anywhere and presuming that DeAngelo is traded, that still seems to have only room for one. As such, yes, I believe that Lundqvist will be used as an asset to bring in another asset.

 

[True Blue]

fighting a losing battle here

it’s love or hate no in between

Ain't that the truth.

but again, assuming that lundkvist or now Schneider will just replace the ADA production is silly.

I do not believe that neither will replace DeAngelo's production. Lundqvist MAY come closer, but that will still not get there. Nor will Schneider ever come close.

I do however believe that Gorton and JD are building the team in a specific way. And while I agree with you that DeAngelo's production does not grow on trees (what he was doing last year, puts him in rarified air), I also believe that Gorton and JD are interested in having two smallish defenseman on one side. We can surmise that Trouba is not going anywhere. At least not for a long while. We can also surmise that Fox is not going anywhere. It is my believe that when all is said and done, that Schneider is the one here long term. Providing of course that he continues to develop.

I believe that DeAngelo will be traded some time next year (no matter what I think of how he can tilt the ice offensively) and at some point, Lundqvist goes as well.

 

[Trxjw]

Tony is tremendously gifted at one part of the game of hockey. That being said, if Lundvist can bring 2/3rds of Tony's offense with a vastly superior defensive game, that's a easy choice in my eyes. When it comes to the blue line I'll take 45 points and competent defense over 65 points and clueless defense any day of the week. Not to mention that's even before you consider you're still talking about two guys who are going to line up behind a potentially elite two-way defender in Fox who can likely give you 55+ points and elite defensive play.

 

[mas0764]

Tony is tremendously gifted at one part of the game of hockey. That being said, if Lundvist can bring 2/3rds of Tony's offense with a vastly superior defensive game, that's a easy choice in my eyes. When it comes to the blue line I'll take 45 points and competent defense over 65 points and clueless defense any day of the week. Not to mention that's even before you consider you're still talking about two guys who are going to line up behind a potentially elite two-way defender in Fox who can likely give you 55+ points and elite defensive play.

Agree with this. DeAngelo can be a powerful trade chip as well.

What you might be able to get back for him (A Cody Glass/Peyton Krebs return, thus alleviating a huge need for us in terms of future young center depth), plus the value of his replacement (less points but better defense, at a cheaper salary for the next few years) probably outweighs the benefit of keeping him.

To me it's really more a question of pouncing when you've found the right deal, not keeping him until you are sure you don't need him/his replacement is forcing him out.

 

[bernmeister]

Depends on your definition of what "soon" is. In reading the tea leaves, I do not believe that Gorton & JD are interested in having two smallish defensemen on the same side. I do not believe that Trouba is going anywhere anytime soon and Schneider seems to be more in the mold of a defense that they are trying to build. Which leaves Fox and Lundqvist. Since I do not believe that Fox is going anywhere and presuming that DeAngelo is traded, that still seems to have only room for one. As such, yes, I believe that Lundqvist will be used as an asset to bring in another asset.

More than fair and not without lots of reason.
However, while we need to confirm the anticipated promise of Nils, I expect he is a real deal here.
I agree the D corp can't all be smurfs
But you only need a min of 1 guy w/size to clear the crease.
Fox has Lindgren.
whoev his partner is has KAM.
Nils, who is a teen and maybe still growing, btw, can have a clear the crease buy if needed.

btw, Deangelo is not a clear the crease guy.

Also, bottom line is usually greater talent dictates roster.

 

[mas0764]

I am not nearly as convinced as True Blue that Nils is gonna get moved.

He's a gem. You don't just tell a guy like that there's no room for him.

 

[True Blue]

I am not nearly as convinced as True Blue that Nils is gonna get moved.

He's a gem. You don't just tell a guy like that there's no room for him.

Clearly I have no crystal ball here and am just speculating. It appears that Gorton and JD are building with size and attitude. I could be wrong, but as I said, it feels like they are going with more size than less. They clearly targeted Schneider last year. I do not believe that there will be room for both Fox and Lundqvist on one side.

 

[True Blue]

More than fair and not without lots of reason.
However, while we need to confirm the anticipated promise of Nils, I expect he is a real deal here.
I agree the D corp can't all be smurfs
But you only need a min of 1 guy w/size to clear the crease.
Fox has Lindgren.
whoev his partner is has KAM.
Nils, who is a teen and maybe still growing, btw, can have a clear the crease buy if needed.

btw, Deangelo is not a clear the crease guy.

Also, bottom line is usually greater talent dictates roster.

They are going with size. Clearing the crease is one aspect. Playing with size is another. With size on both sides, you can cover a lot of areas. When one looks at the picks (Miller, Robertson, Schneider) you can see that there is a theme.

I am not by any chance rushing out to trade Lundqvist. Just feel that having both him and DeAngelo would go counter to what I see playing out in front of us right now.

 

[mas0764]

Clearly I have no crystal ball here and am just speculating. It appears that Gorton and JD are building with size and attitude. I could be wrong, but as I said, it feels like they are going with more size than less. They clearly targeted Schneider last year. I do not believe that there will be room for both Fox and Lundqvist on one side.

Frankly I'd look at Schneider as an eventual Trouba replacement, not as a Nils replacement. If both the kids are ready to play in the NHL next year, that becomes way more of a problem. If one of them is still 2-3 years away that is much more feasible to move Trouba at that time.

 

[True Blue]

Frankly I'd look at Schneider as an eventual Trouba replacement, not as a Nils replacement. If both the kids are ready to play in the NHL next year, that becomes way more of a problem. If one of them is still 2-3 years away that is much more feasible to move Trouba at that time.

And that may well be. But I think that the readiness of a Schneider may trump that. He may be ready to take NHL shifts at the same time as Lundqvist and long before Trouba's NTC becomes easier to manage. I have no doubt that the situation will work itself out, but I just see the future of the right side as Trouba, Fox, Schneider.

 

[Peltz]

Clearly I have no crystal ball here and am just speculating. It appears that Gorton and JD are building with size and attitude. I could be wrong, but as I said, it feels like they are going with more size than less. They clearly targeted Schneider last year. I do not believe that there will be room for both Fox and Lundqvist on one side.

I don't think they're going to pass up on one of the most touted defensive prospects outside of the NHL just because he isn't the right size. I'm not saying that you are without good reason for thinking this way - you may, in fact, be correct. But I just have a gut feeling that Nils could be one of those prospects you make an exception for.

 

[Peltz]

They are going with size. Clearing the crease is one aspect. Playing with size is another. With size on both sides, you can cover a lot of areas. When one looks at the picks (Miller, Robertson, Schneider) you can see that there is a theme.

I am not by any chance rushing out to trade Lundqvist. Just feel that having both him and DeAngelo would go counter to what I see playing out in front of us right now.

There's no chance they're keeping DeAngelo. I don't think he's an important player to the team at all.

He's too much of a defensive liability.

 

[True Blue]

But I just have a gut feeling that Nils could be one of those prospects you make an exception for.

Let's put it this way. No matter where your thinking lines up on, we can all agree that this is what one calls a problem of the first world.

There's no chance they're keeping DeAngelo. I don't think he's an important player to the team at all.

He's too much of a defensive liability.

Disagree that he is not important to the team. He is such a dynamic player who can tilt the ice offensively.

I will agree that he is rather poorus defensively and is more than likely traded after this season. When? Well, that will depend on several variants with two of them being Lundqvist and Schneider and their level of readiness. DeAngelo may not be traded until the TDL 2022.

 

[mas0764]

DeAngelo seems the ultimate odd man out because even though he may have the best offensive abilities of any of these five names (DeAngelo, Trouba, Fox, Nils, and Schneider) he does also have probably the worst defense. He's also not cheap. Not now, and he's only going to get more expensive, and that's a premium issue for a team with lots of young guys to lock up.

It's good that RHDs are always in demand and he has a premium skill, so he can probably fetch a premium return.

Him for a center at some point makes a ton of sense. And depending how good the return is, if it's offered sooner rather than later, I still think it makes sense to pull that trigger.

Then you are left with four RHDs for three eventual slots, and the issue doesn't really raise it's head until both Schneider and Nils have arrived. Hopefully that's at a time when it's easier to move on from Trouba, because he seems to be the next square peg in a round hole if you are looking at it rationally. He's not really a defensive defenseman, but we have cast him in that role because of his size. Instead he's more of an offensive defenseman with size, but Fox does that way better and frankly Nils looks like he may project to be more dynamic in that regard too. If Nils can be solid both offensively and defensively, then the only thing Trouba has on him is size.

And for $8m a year I don't think size is worth it.

 

[Trxjw]

Agree with this. DeAngelo can be a powerful trade chip as well.

What you might be able to get back for him (A Cody Glass/Peyton Krebs return, thus alleviating a huge need for us in terms of future young center depth), plus the value of his replacement (less points but better defense, at a cheaper salary for the next few years) probably outweighs the benefit of keeping him.

To me it's really more a question of pouncing when you've found the right deal, not keeping him until you are sure you don't need him/his replacement is forcing him out.

I think the ship sailed from Vegas once they signed Pietrangelo, but I agree with the thought process. If Tony can get us that kind of piece, or give us pieces that can be used to acquire said piece, then it makes sense to do it and do it quickly. Even if Nils isn't currently fighting for a spot on the roster. If you're not considering a guy in your long term plans then cash in on him when the opportunity arises.