Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo: Part III

[Edge]

I've never bought into the belief that you can have skill or toughness, or that toughness is measured only by dropping the gloves.

ADA is combining skill and toughness and doing it rather well.

Obviously we don't want him doing that every game, but I don't see a concern there.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I still think ideally, he's a 2nd pair guy.

I also think hes a 50+ point guy. If the shot improves, he becomes a massive PP asset.

 

[Edge]

I still think ideally, he's a 2nd pair guy.

I also think hes a 50+ point guy. If the shot improves, he becomes a massive PP asset.

I tend to agree.

I still am not convincing I'm looking at a first pair guy, at least not ideally.

I think he looks like a valuable player, and an important one, but I don't know if I quite see that higher tier.

I think he plays a game that people really like, combining skill and toughness, and whether they're forwards or defenseman, we tend to want that to be just a little higher than it might actually be.

 

[Rempe73]

I still think ideally, he's a 2nd pair guy.

I also think hes a 50+ point guy. If the shot improves, he becomes a massive PP asset.

Right now he’s not a 1st pairing d-man, but the amount of improvement he’s seen in one season makes me optimistic that he might be able to take another big step.

 

[E-Train]

That’s the thing. I see a 60 pt Yandle year in the near future. 60 pts and 24/mpg is easily 1st pair to me.

 

[dumpin]

One-punch Tony

Pionk will also drop them with anyone, fought someone 6'5 in the AHL.

No matter what you think about fighting and goons and what not, its not negative to be a little assertive in this area.

I don't see that in Pionks game. I wish I did. He appears to get roughed up and pushed around way too often. I think toughness is what is missing from his game. Hopefully Quinn can coax it out of him.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

If a defenseman is putting up 50+ points and is still playing decent defense, while playing over 20 minutes, he's a 1st pair defenseman in the league, no if ands or buts about that.

You don't need to be a star/superstar player to be considered a top pair dman.

 

[Ola]

I don't see that in Pionks game. I wish I did. He appears to get roughed up and pushed around way too often. I think toughness is what is missing from his game. Hopefully Quinn can coax it out of him.

Labate is 6’5 220, Pionk jumped him after he dropped a Wolf Pack player.



Pionk has three fighting majors in the NHL this season. That is not that few, Toronto, Arizona and Vegas all have 6 each during the entire season.

Neal Pionk

But it does seem like he might have layed off some of that stuff lately, but the smile has also gone from his face. Not strange with the extreme amount he has been trashed all season.

 

[Edge]

I like ADA, but let's get through a season where he's not scratched for a quarter of the games and tops 40 points before we start getting into conversations about 50 points or even 60 for that matter.

One step at a time.

 

[offdacrossbar]

ADA has been a godsend.

were seeing the player he's always been capable of being. the the big difference ?? kids been given the minutes to develop the confidence he absolutely thrives on. huge ego, huge swag and huge talent but in the past he lacked a regular shift and an opportunity to gain some confidence.

kids always been one of the most talented dman on the ice. his prior stops were difficult with tampa- moved out of syracuse due to a backlog of dmen in the system and out in AZ where again, he fought for minutes.

with playing time comes confidence and with ADA confidence = production and added minutes.

rather than fight against his "different" personality, embrace it and let the kid play.

hes gone from misfit malcontent to a core prime time player.

kids so much more than just points. he makes plays, creates chances, transports the puck and adds some attitude to an otherwise bland roster.

 

[Off Sides]

There will probably be less than 15 50 point defenders this season.

If ADA can eventually do that, I don't really care if he is 1st or 2nd pair.

While I think it's a stretch, if he could become a PK option, and still put up 40-50 points, that would separate his game from guys like Shattenkirk, Green, Yandle, etc.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I like ADA, but let's get through a season where he's not scratched for a quarter of the games and tops 40 points before we start getting into conversations about 50 points or even 60 for that matter.

One step at a time.

Lets be real, i wouldnt take any of these scratches to heart on any player...Quinn has scratched almost everyone in the lineup at one point during the season, and a handful of players for multiple games, especially the first and 2nd year players. I used to be down on that move but he is consistent across the board usually with his strategy and it appears to work.

 

[Edge]

Lets be real, i wouldnt take any of these scratches to heart on any player...Quinn has scratched almost everyone in the lineup at one point during the season, and a handful of players for multiple games, especially the first and 2nd year players. I used to be down on that move but he is consistent across the board usually with his strategy and it appears to work.

Personally, I'm perfectly fine with putting most of these kids on the slow-cook method.

I don't know if Quinn will be the coach when this team is a contender again. But I definitely think that if this team is going to be a contender in the 2020s, it will likely owe a lot to the principles Quinn is pounding into these kids at this stage of their development.

 

[True Blue]

rather than fight against his "different" personality, embrace it and let the kid play.

You just never give up with this, do you?

Do you honestly think that after scratching him for so much of the season, that Quinn simply threw his hands up in the air and decided to give up? Or is the much more likely scenario that DeAngelo took his "different" personality and honed it into the confines that Quinn laid out for him? And maybe, just maybe that has something to do with him playing the best hockey of his career?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Personally, I'm perfectly fine with putting most of these kids on the slow-cook method.

I don't know if Quinn will be the coach when this team is a contender again. But I definitely think that if this team is going to be a contender in the 2020s, it will likely owe a lot to the principles Quinn is pounding into these kids at this stage of their development.

I was pretty against all the benching, but it's really hard to debate the results...buch and tony have responded extremely well thus far. Other players have stepped up their games too when being benched and know they can't lift their foot off the peddle if they want to play. Not sure if in 4 years that will still work when the players are older ,it likely won't, but for now i have no complaints.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

You just never give up with this, do you?

Do you honestly think that after scratching him for so much of the season, that Quinn simply threw his hands up in the air and decided to give up? Or is the much more likely scenario that DeAngelo took his "different" personality and honed it into the confines that Quinn laid out for him? And maybe, just maybe that has something to do with him playing the best hockey of his career?

I was pretty skeptical of Quinn's early scratches of DeAngelo earlier this season, but it seems like he was always up front about his reasons, and didn't stop communicating and encouraging. Much different than someone like Torts, who would lock players in the press box and throw away the key until they "learned their lesson."

Fundamental fairness. It builds trust and buy-in.

"I'm going to scratch you for A, B, and C. But, here are the things X, Y, and Z, that I need to see from you to get yourself back into the lineup. And, I'm going to help and encourage you along the way."

 

[True Blue]

I was pretty skeptical of Quinn's early scratches of DeAngelo earlier this season, but it seems like he was always up front about his reasons, and didn't stop communicating and encouraging. Much different than someone like Torts, who would lock players in the press box and throw away the key until they "learned their lesson."

Fundamental fairness. It builds trust and buy-in.

"I'm going to scratch you for A, B, and C. But, here are the things X, Y, and Z, that I need to see from you to get yourself back into the lineup. And, I'm going to help and encourage you along the way."

That is the basic fundemental difference that I see in Quinn and Torts methods of accountability. I truly think that Quinn views them as "teaching moments". And, and I think that this is also big, he has always kept it in the locker room.

 

[dumpin]

Labate is 6’5 220, Pionk jumped him after he dropped a Wolf Pack player.



Pionk has three fighting majors in the NHL this season. That is not that few, Toronto, Arizona and Vegas all have 6 each during the entire season.

Neal Pionk

But it does seem like he might have layed off some of that stuff lately, but the smile has also gone from his face. Not strange with the extreme amount he has been trashed all season.

Nice double leg takedown. I am surprised that he has had 3 fights this year,, but its still an area I think he needs to improve on. He needs to be a more gritty , tough to play against. I am not saying he is not capable its that game in and game out I haven't seen it. He has the other skills to succeed.
Funny you mention the smile, it seems to me that Vesey is another guy that never smiles. He shows no emotion.. I thought he started to turn the corner a few weeks ago but now he just seems to sulk. ?

 

[aufheben]

How often do you see a psychotic puck-moving defenseman these days? Lol

 

[Harbour Dog]

How often do you see a psychotic puck-moving defenseman these days? Lol

A PPMD? It's been a while.

 

[aufheben]

I tend to agree.

I still am not convincing I'm looking at a first pair guy, at least not ideally.

I think he looks like a valuable player, and an important one, but I don't know if I quite see that higher tier.

I think he plays a game that people really like, combining skill and toughness, and whether they're forwards or defenseman, we tend to want that to be just a little higher than it might actually be.

I think Torey Krug+Richie Aprile is the ceiling. Krug had 39 pts in 78 gp when he was 23. People still don’t usually agree on what Torey Krug actually is; I think he’s underrated, others don’t see him as top-pairing. Both career ~3.0 CF% Rel (so far for DeAngelo.) 30 pts in 59 gp is a 41-42 pts pace.

The Bruins were in a different situation, and had much more of a support system on defense when Krug came up... Chara, Hamilton, McQuaid, Seidenberg. DeAngelo first played with the Coyotes, and now a rebuilding Rangers team.

CJ Turtoro has him as a default option on his stats tracking page:
Tableau Public

 

[Mikos87]

I don't see that in Pionks game. I wish I did. He appears to get roughed up and pushed around way too often. I think toughness is what is missing from his game. Hopefully Quinn can coax it out of him.

I like Neal, and thought he would be the most important UFA the Rangers sign prior to the off-season where he turned pro. But you're right, he's soft.

A couple of rage fights are good, but Neal isn't savvy enough to get away from the physical element through positioning and stick skills, and he's getting beat. I see a guy whose game takes a hit after he takes a hit, but at the same time, he has NHL ability if he can handle the defensive side of the game. The offense hasn't shown in months. I am skeptical of Neal's offensive output. But if I were Neal, I would look at tapes of a guy like Mike Weaver to see how he defended.

Weaver had a nice career as a 5'10" 180 LB under-sized defenseman.

But I don't see Neal as a guy you win with. I see him as an NHLer on a series of bad teams.

 

[Edge]

Pionk to me is "Mr. Right Now."

I think in a post-AV, Girardi and Staal world of overuse, there's a heightened sensitivity there. But I've never really given a ton of thought one way or the other to Pionk. If the Rangers can't develop or acquire a player that pushes Pionk down to the third pair, if not out the door, then that's a whole other more serious problem.

 

[NYR Viper]

I am finally getting around to watching the last game's 2nd period. I love that ADA took on a much larger player and absolutely held his own. He comes to the defense of his teammates with a fireceness this team has been missing for years. He and Lemieux are a good start to changing the feeling around this team.

 

[Kovalev27]

I don’t see why ADA can’t put up 50 pts and play 23 24 mins a night in his prime which is what he’s about to enter. He seems to thrive with more mins. He is a tremendous skater. And not for nothing he LOVES mixing it up. He enjoys it. To me all he had to do was learn to be adequate defensively to be a top pair guy. He’s more than done that. To me he’s in pen on my top pairing if it were my team. Imagine this kid in the playoffs? I have no doubt the he’d thrive off the intensity.