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I dunno about anyone else but I’d be lining up to sign for a team where my boss is the biggest asshole in the league. :laugh:

Glory days on loop in the mind baby.
 
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Tripod said:
What about when a coach refuses to talk to players especially after benching? Or takes games off to watch upstairs?

Why is a coach left off the hook when he can't accomplish basic coaching duties?
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Torts is a weird dude in some ways, but for all the talk about him being an asshole, you hear more glowing praise from former players than you do for most HCs. His biggest critic was Dubinsky, who was demoted at age 30 to 3C and out of the league after another season. Torts challenges and benches veterans more than almost any HC, and a lot of veterans don't like that, they think they've earned the right to special treatment.

I think it's simple, Torts is an old fashioned "my way or the highway" HC which grates on some from the entitlement generations (though it's interesting that NFL players don't need to be coddled, maybe because it's the "Not For Long" league). But from all accounts he's actually a decent human being who cares about his players (and dogs, so he's obviously a good person).

So the players who don't want to be pushed hate him and are soon gone, the players who accept his "tough love" come to realize that he'll give them second and third chances if they put out effort, and doesn't see them as replaceable slabs of meat.

Frost, Cates, Tippett and York took big steps up last season, that's not "player development?"

Allison was up and down, but I think that's b/c Torts is trying to get Allison to accept his limitations, he lacks play making skills and needs to focus on being a north-south power forward, but not be out of control (which has lead to a number of dings). Laczynski just couldn't stay healthy.

Nor is being a tough guy a big thing with Torts, Lemieux got a full tryout and they made no attempt to keep him. They've been stressing to Risto that positioning is more important than big hits. His hits per 60 dropped from 11.81, 10.54 the previous two seasons to 7.25.
 
Tripod said:
DEFEND DEFEND DEFEND!
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Or maybe there's a lot of knee jerk posting around here that's devoid of actual analysis and facts?

People criticize Torts for screwing up the tank b/c he coached a bad team to the 7th worst record, but isn't that what good coaches do, get teams to play above their talent?

People criticize Torts for mistreating young players, but we just saw two underachievers blossom, a 5th rd pick become a solid starter and a young D-man develop into a potential 1st pair starter. Must be doing something right.

People criticize Torts for deep sixing the value of Hayes and TDA, but TDA was in the bottom 1% defensively, how much lipstick would make that pig adorable? Duchene got bought out. Maybe there was no market for highly paid offense first veterans?

I saw a team that actually showed up to play night after night, not a good team, but at least one that was worth watching, unlike the previous couple seasons when it was obvious that a number of players were just going through the motions and had checked out on AV.

Now does Torts have his flaws? Sure, and he wears them for all the world to see. Which makes him entertaining, something a bad team needs!

I don't think he's the long-term answer (neither does he) but I think he'll leave a young, fast aggressive team behind him, something I look forward to watching, I prefer high intensity two way play to figure skater teams - those teams tend to have a better track record in the playoffs.
 
deadhead said:
Or maybe there's a lot of knee jerk posting around here that's devoid of actual analysis and facts?

People criticize Torts for screwing up the tank b/c he coached a bad team to the 7th worst record, but isn't that what good coaches do, get teams to play above their talent?

People criticize Torts for mistreating young players, but we just saw two underachievers blossom, a 5th rd pick become a solid starter and a young D-man develop into a potential 1st pair starter. Must be doing something right.

People criticize Torts for deep sixing the value of Hayes and TDA, but TDA was in the bottom 1% defensively, how much lipstick would make that pig adorable? Duchene got bought out. Maybe there was no market for highly paid offense first veterans?

I saw a team that actually showed up to play night after night, not a good team, but at least one that was worth watching, unlike the previous couple seasons when it was obvious that a number of players were just going through the motions and had checked out on AV.

Now does Torts have his flaws? Sure, and he wears them for all the world to see. Which makes him entertaining, something a bad team needs!

I don't think he's the long-term answer (neither does he) but I think he'll leave a young, fast aggressive team behind him, something I look forward to watching, I prefer high intensity two way play to figure skater teams - those teams tend to have a better track record in the playoffs.
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Yeah, there is a lot of kneejerk posting. Chiefly in defense of the Flyers.

My man, you wrote manifestos last summer about how Tortorella is actually secretly an offensive guru despite everything he's ever said and done. That's devoid of facts and analysis right there. It's pure fantasy. And I haven't seen anyone criticize Tortorella for making the team "finish 7th." You make that up.

Tortorella has never left behind a young team poised to take the next step. It's never happened. It's bizarre you've decided that's the thing he does.
 
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deadhead said:
Torts is a weird dude in some ways, but for all the talk about him being an asshole, you hear more glowing praise from former players than you do for most HCs. His biggest critic was Dubinsky, who was demoted at age 30 to 3C and out of the league after another season. Torts challenges and benches veterans more than almost any HC, and a lot of veterans don't like that, they think they've earned the right to special treatment.

I think it's simple, Torts is an old fashioned "my way or the highway" HC which grates on some from the entitlement generations (though it's interesting that NFL players don't need to be coddled, maybe because it's the "Not For Long" league). But from all accounts he's actually a decent human being who cares about his players (and dogs, so he's obviously a good person).

So the players who don't want to be pushed hate him and are soon gone, the players who accept his "tough love" come to realize that he'll give them second and third chances if they put out effort, and doesn't see them as replaceable slabs of meat.

Frost, Cates, Tippett and York took big steps up last season, that's not "player development?"

Allison was up and down, but I think that's b/c Torts is trying to get Allison to accept his limitations, he lacks play making skills and needs to focus on being a north-south power forward, but not be out of control (which has lead to a number of dings). Laczynski just couldn't stay healthy.

Nor is being a tough guy a big thing with Torts, Lemieux got a full tryout and they made no attempt to keep him. They've been stressing to Risto that positioning is more important than big hits. His hits per 60 dropped from 11.81, 10.54 the previous two seasons to 7.25.
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Players will not tell you the truth while they are still playing . Talk to some when they are out of the league and you will get a different story . I have talked to a few that also played for him in the AHL . They said in the AHL he was actually a pretty good coach but something happened along the way . When they had him again a few years later they said he was a complete nut job .
 
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wasup said:
Players will not tell you the truth while they are still playing . Talk to some when they are out of the league and you will get a different story . I have talked to a few that also played for him in the AHL . They said in the AHL he was actually a pretty good coach but something happened along the way . When they had him again a few years later they said he was a complete nut job .
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Guys like St Louis love him. Atkinson lobbied for him, and had no need to (on his last big contract).

I doubt he's nearly as bad as advertised. Since he wears his emotions on his sleeve, it's just more obvious than other martinet HCs who are more subtle and probably more vicious as well.
 
He has already proven he is as bad as advertised. This is a guy who's had two player revolts this decade.
deadhead said:
Guys like St Louis love him. Atkinson lobbied for him, and had no need to (on his last big contract).

I doubt he's nearly as bad as advertised. Since he wears his emotions on his sleeve, it's just more obvious than other martinet HCs who are more subtle and probably more vicious as well.
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kudymen said:
He was trying to give Tortorella credit for turning Martin St. Louis into Martin St. Louis, so lets just say bullshit wouldnt stop at the York mark.
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I'm not so sure....
People criticize Torts for mistreating young players, but we just saw two underachievers blossom, a 5th rd pick become a solid starter and a young D-man develop into a potential 1st pair starter. Must be doing something right.
Click to expand...
 
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kudymen said:
He was trying to give Tortorella credit for turning Martin St. Louis into Martin St. Louis, so lets just say bullshit wouldnt stop at the York mark.
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St Louis credits Torts, you don't believe him. Go google St Louis and Torts.
 
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