Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo (MOD WARNINGS: Post #12/#900)

[offdacrossbar]

Lets pump the brakes

yeah but pionk is above criticism ? hes been a dumpster fire at even strength. his numbers are pretty bad. his 5v5 numbers are brutal actually.

the pp time he gets hes produced but i believe so would ADA had he had the same opportunity.

bottom line, pionk hasn't got anywhere near the natural offensive talent that ADA has. pretty simple really and its not even close.

sitting ADA has been a mistake from day 1. kids gotta play if we want to see if he can be a core player for this rebuild

 

[mrmovies779]

Im not even sure why Pionk is even being brought up in here.They are not battling against each other for a spot.There is room for both at the same time.That being said-Tony played very well last night and definately deserves more playing time to hopefully build on that and force Quinn to keep him in the lineup.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

yeah but pionk is above criticism ? hes been a dumpster fire at even strength. his numbers are pretty bad. his 5v5 numbers are brutal actually.

the pp time he gets hes produced but i believe so would ADA had he had the same opportunity.

bottom line, pionk hasn't got anywhere near the natural offensive talent that ADA has. pretty simple really and its not even close.

sitting ADA has been a mistake from day 1. kids gotta play if we want to see if he can be a core player for this rebuild

Who said that?

 

[bobbop]

ADA made some very good plays last night. I also saw a number of glaring defensive mistakes that did not lead to goals. I think he has earned an extended stay in the lineup because he is not taking the place of anyone in the long term plans. The bottom line though is can he play defense? The offense is nice and the passing is certainly good but watch him closely in the Rangers end and look for progress there. I hope it works. I continue to be skeptical.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

This kid needs to play. I'm all about holding these kids accountable and making them work for it, but DeAngelo's talent and ability to help this team win games is undeniable.

I also don't think he's getting enough credit for just how hard it is to sit for long periods of time, then turn around and perform well when inserted into the lineup. He was being setup for failure with how long he sat, yet played his ass off anyway. If he can continue to do whatever it is the coaches expect from him off the ice, he needs to be a fixture in the lineup and on the PP.

 

[Levitate]

ADA made some very good plays last night. I also saw a number of glaring defensive mistakes that did not lead to goals. I think he has earned an extended stay in the lineup because he is not taking the place of anyone in the long term plans. The bottom line though is can he play defense? The offense is nice and the passing is certainly good but watch him closely in the Rangers end and look for progress there. I hope it works. I continue to be skeptical.

I dunno why he keeps getting held to this different standard when you can watch any of the Rangers defensemen and they all make glaring mistakes in their own end. The bottom line should be that if he can drive the offense (spend more time turning the play back up ice and creating pressure and chances, rather than defending) and produce some points as well then he should be in the lineup and should be getting groomed as a power play quarterback and all around offensive defenseman. He shouldn't have to be perfect in the defensive zone, he never will be, none of the Rangers defensemen ever will be.

I'm willing to let this new coaching staff and Rangers management in general have some time to sort things out and all but if they end up running DeAngelo out of town because they refuse to play him and bench him for perceived mistakes that they're letting every other defenseman get away with then I certainly am no longer very optimistic about the long term future of this team regardless how well they may draft.

They have nothing to lose by trying to play him and develop him at this point. Doing anything otherwise is wasting an asset.

 

[Gardner McKay]

ADA made some very good plays last night. I also saw a number of glaring defensive mistakes that did not lead to goals. I think he has earned an extended stay in the lineup because he is not taking the place of anyone in the long term plans. The bottom line though is can he play defense? The offense is nice and the passing is certainly good but watch him closely in the Rangers end and look for progress there. I hope it works. I continue to be skeptical.

You are one of the most well respected posters on our board and I personally have a ton of respect for you. With that being said, I do know you have not been a fan of the Stepan deal from day one and I wonder if that is tainting your judgement a bit?

 

[Levitate]

ADA is probably the one glaring area where I disagree with Quinn thus far.

I'm all for wanting to mold ADA into the type of player who can use his skill set to be successful at the NHL. I'm all for demanding his best or close to it on a more consistent basis.

But with that said, I feel like ADA is at the point where he really needs to sink or swim. And with that, the Rangers owe him some wiggle room to learn, grow and make mistakes. Warts and all, the kid has more points than all but 7 players on the NHL roster, despite playing in the fewest games of any skater. At some point, the in-game results have to matter more than the practices and I find it somewhat hard to believe that there's this much of a disconnect between the two.

and as usual Edge has said more or less what I'm thinking before I got around to saying it.

Unless he's being a serious off the ice problem and bad teammate or SOMETHING in practice, you've got to give this guy some wiggle room. He had a good preseason, the coaches even said that, but he hasn't been given a chance so far this season. You gave up assets to get this player, he's not going to develop or get better at the things he needs to get better at if he's just sitting on the bench.

 

[Gardner McKay]

and as usual Edge has said more or less what I'm thinking before I got around to saying it.

Unless he's being a serious off the ice problem and bad teammate or SOMETHING in practice, you've got to give this guy some wiggle room. He had a good preseason, the coaches even said that, but he hasn't been given a chance so far this season. You gave up assets to get this player, he's not going to develop or get better at the things he needs to get better at if he's just sitting on the bench.

The reality is, not everyone develops the same way. Some guys just need to be in that in game situation to learn from their mistakes. In what is already a dumpster fire season, there is no reason ADA shouldn't have every opportunity this year.

 

[bobbop]

I dunno why he keeps getting held to this different standard when you can watch any of the Rangers defensemen and they all make glaring mistakes in their own end. The bottom line should be that if he can drive the offense (spend more time turning the play back up ice and creating pressure and chances, rather than defending) and produce some points as well then he should be in the lineup and should be getting groomed as a power play quarterback and all around offensive defenseman. He shouldn't have to be perfect in the defensive zone, he never will be, none of the Rangers defensemen ever will be.

I'm willing to let this new coaching staff and Rangers management in general have some time to sort things out and all but if they end up running DeAngelo out of town because they refuse to play him and bench him for perceived mistakes that they're letting every other defenseman get away with then I certainly am no longer very optimistic about the long term future of this team regardless how well they may draft.

They have nothing to lose by trying to play him and develop him at this point. Doing anything otherwise is wasting an asset.

Probably the biggest difference is that I don't expect most of the current defense (Smith, Staal, McQuaid etc.) being part of the core going forward. They have been reduced to trade chips and ballast. We know who they are. Their time is coming to an end. If the coaching staff wouldn't put D'Angelo in the lineup ahead of the guys in front of him, they weren't very impressed either.

He has his chance now and coming off a good game, has earned a longer look.

And Gardner, you are right. I hated this deal from the minute I heard it. (I was driving through west Texas and I almost ran off the road) I still hate it. I've got to live with it though and I'm hoping for the best. I really am. I do however chuckle at some of the platitudes tossed ADA's way.

 

[Rempe73]

Lets pump the brakes

Never

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Here is the issue I have, or should say, will have if he is benched.

I like Quinn. I think he is doing a good job so far. But, for all the talk about practice, the goal DeAngelo scored was 100% due to his commitment to out work the other guy and win that puck. This is a kid who wants to play and as a coach tasked with developing young guys, ADA should be playing as long as he continues to give an IN GAME effort like this.

Now, I am not saying ADA should be allowed to half ass it in practice or anything. But that goal sequence is a perfect example of why we should be willing to work with the mistakes he makes.

Maybe he was just being abrassive.

 

[offdacrossbar]

when you sit a guy for that many games at his age, surely if you are an intelligent coach as quinn appears to be, you must realize that the damage you are doing to the kid far outweighs any lesson you are trying to teach him.

whats the end game here ? develop a talented young player or break him and let his career rot. who wouldnt have a so-so attitude being a healthy scratch every game while lesser players play and the team flounders ? at what point does it become personal and to that end, at what point do we fish or cut bait with the kid ?

bottom line for me, if the player performs in games as he has, then he deserves another game. if he continues to perform in games, then hes doing his job and holding up his end of the bargain.

hes earned another game if he performs. period.

 

[Rempe73]

I agree, but even if he doesn’t earn a game, he should play. Have any of our defensemen truly “earned” their playing time besides ADA and Pionk?











And maybe Claesson

 

[Rempe73]

Probably the biggest difference is that I don't expect most of the current defense (Smith, Staal, McQuaid etc.) being part of the core going forward. They have been reduced to trade chips and ballast. We know who they are. Their time is coming to an end. If the coaching staff wouldn't put D'Angelo in the lineup ahead of the guys in front of him, they weren't very impressed either.

He has his chance now and coming off a good game, has earned a longer look.

And Gardner, you are right. I hated this deal from the minute I heard it. (I was driving through west Texas and I almost ran off the road) I still hate it. I've got to live with it though and I'm hoping for the best. I really am. I do however chuckle at some of the platitudes tossed ADA's way.

Funny, I was in my car when as well when I heard the news of the trade. But I was absolutely ecstatic because we got ADA. Having Andersson is nice, but if ADA can keep this up, we win that trade. I’ve defended the Stepan trade since day 1, even though I liked Stepan and really liked Raanta. And I defended it even when ADA and Andersson were struggling.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Forgive me, but where did this "practice problem" come from?

 

[Fvital92]

Like Romario used to say: "practice is practice, game is game". Nobody will give a damn if he doesn't practice hard enough if he plays well. His 3 games this season were good enough that he deserves a long look in the lineup, bad practices or not.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Like Romario used to say: "practice is practice, game is game". Nobody will give a damn if he doesn't practice hard enough if he plays well. His 3 games this season were good enough that he deserves a long look in the lineup, bad practices or not.

Oh Romario. He missed training all the time because he slept in. But in Eindhoven nobody cared because he’d score a hat trick against Steaua the next day haha

 

[The Crypto Guy]

ADA made some very good plays last night. I also saw a number of glaring defensive mistakes that did not lead to goals. I think he has earned an extended stay in the lineup because he is not taking the place of anyone in the long term plans. The bottom line though is can he play defense? The offense is nice and the passing is certainly good but watch him closely in the Rangers end and look for progress there. I hope it works. I continue to be skeptical.

Really?? I guess you're the only one who saw "a number of glaring defensive mistakes". Not sure what you're watching, seems like you have quite the agenda against him.

 

[Fvital92]

Oh Romario. He missed training all the time because he slept in. But in Eindhoven nobody cared because he’d score a hat trick against Steaua the next day haha

Story of his career. The most famous, and probably the best, was when his teammates tried to give him a hard time after he decided to extend his vacation after winning the 94 world cup.
"You didn't even make to tournament, you didn't pass the quarter finals, I won against your squad, so shut the f*** up" and then left the locker room.

 

[bobbop]

Funny, I was in my car when as well when I heard the news of the trade. But I was absolutely ecstatic because we got ADA. Having Andersson is nice, but if ADA can keep this up, we win that trade. I’ve defended the Stepan trade since day 1, even though I liked Stepan and really liked Raanta. And I defended it even when ADA and Andersson were struggling.

Probably has to do with the fact that I was still a Coyote STH in 2016 and I got to see D'Angelo play 20 or so games in person and another 20 on TV. I was not ecstatic. In my mind, ADA was a throw in.

I don't have an agenda. Check back to June 23, 2017. I was terribly disappointed at the overall return for Stepan (heck, forget Raanta) and I had more than enough first hand viewings of ADA to form an opinion. Look, I hope I am dead wrong and he works out but right now I remain skeptical until there is more evidence. The fact that he's been healthy scratched so many times on a bad team tells you something.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

when you sit a guy for that many games at his age, surely if you are an intelligent coach as quinn appears to be, you must realize that the damage you are doing to the kid far outweighs any lesson you are trying to teach him.
.

I don't see this as even remotely true in general, let alone in this specific scenario with this small of a sample size.

It's certainly possible, but if the player is that weak mentally then I strongly suspect that being sat a few extra games as a rookie within the first 10 games of the season is NOT what makes the difference.

I am so excited to watch this kid next game. When this board froths at the mouth for an offensively inclined NYR Dman it's always wrong. But when I'e watched ADA I've liked what I've seen a lot. Problem is I keep missing his damn games or I barely pay attention to the games he was in.

I'll be paying very close attention to all aspects of his game. Not that I'm a scouting guru but I'm interested to see if a lot of people are ignoring an unacceptably poor, ECHL level defensive game just bc he makes some pretty passes and moves laterally at the line.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Probably has to do with the fact that I was still a Coyote STH in 2016 and I got to see D'Angelo play 20 or so games in person and another 20 on TV. I was not ecstatic. In my mind, ADA was a throw in.

I don't have an agenda. Check back to June 23, 2017. I was terribly disappointed at the overall return for Stepan (heck, forget Raanta) and I had more than enough first hand viewings of ADA to form an opinion. Look, I hope I am dead wrong and he works out but right now I remain skeptical until there is more evidence. The fact that he's been healthy scratched so many times on a bad team tells you something.

I think you are severely overrating Stepan, severely underrating how near untradeable that contract was and underrating the pick we got back too.

 

[Rempe73]

Probably has to do with the fact that I was still a Coyote STH in 2016 and I got to see D'Angelo play 20 or so games in person and another 20 on TV. I was not ecstatic. In my mind, ADA was a throw in.

I don't have an agenda. Check back to June 23, 2017. I was terribly disappointed at the overall return for Stepan (heck, forget Raanta) and I had more than enough first hand viewings of ADA to form an opinion. Look, I hope I am dead wrong and he works out but right now I remain skeptical until there is more evidence. The fact that he's been healthy scratched so many times on a bad team tells you something.

I didn’t say you had an agenda. But I do see where your coming from. But Stepan is really not an elite player. Sure, he’s a good two-way forward, but he’s not elite. Also, older backup goalies that have starter potential have low value for some reason.

Getting a 7th overall pick is not easy, as you know, and as one hfboards poster said, “young, right-handed defensemen with huge offensive upside don’t just fall from the sky.” I think because we signed Shattenkirk, we take DeAngelo for granted. He was certainly not a throw in. Gorton wanted him.

And the evidence is there. Advanced stats, eye test, regular stats, results. He’s our only PPG player (which will obviously not be for long, but still) and from what I’ve seen, he has been good defensively.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Story of his career. The most famous, and probably the best, was when his teammates tried to give him a hard time after he decided to extend his vacation after winning the 94 world cup.
"You didn't even make to tournament, you didn't pass the quarter finals, I won against your squad, so shut the **** up" and then left the locker room.

With Barcelona haha. Yeah. But he was too good for his teammates to really hate him for it.