Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo (MOD WARNINGS: Post #12/#900)

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I don't know why you think that's the case. We don't even know why or to what extent there's a problem with DeAngelo. However, we obviously don't have some rock-solid commitment to character at all costs or else we wouldn't have taken the gamble on acquiring DeAngelo in the first place.

You're making it out to be an either/or choice, like the Rangers have to choose character or talent. They can choose both. How many incredibly talented guys play in the NHL without characters concerns? Probably 100x more than those who have documented character issues. I mean sure, you can find a handful of stars who have done bad things either before or after they made it, but you can find tons more who haven't. I don't think it's a problem that the Rangers are focused on the latter group.

Patty Kane is a tool. He was also an established star when he ran into issues. Detroit got rid of Avery pretty early on because they said he didn't respect the game; LA eventually moved on after the bullying and refusing to practice. Downie is a dirtbag, and should have been thrown out of the NHL years ago--I would not take him on my team under any circumstance. Carter got traded to a place he didn't want to be right before his NTC kicked in, sulked and loafed through his tenure in Columbus, so they had enough and got rid of him. Richards was a star when the sex and partying stuff picked up. Then after turning it around in LA, he gets terminated for drugs. Evander was an established player long before the assault stuff.

From those examples, Downie is the only guy who wasn't already being a productive player established in the league when his issues cropped up (and he's just awful). He's the only parallel to DeAngelo (far worse though). Kane(s), Carter, Richards, even Avery--they all had "made it." And even then, the latter three were given up on, some multiple times. DeAngelo hasn't made it as a productive regular. He doesn't get the same leeway.

Who was Washington's bad boy? Wilson? Dirty player, but there were never character or work ethic concerns with him. Ovechkin is lazy at times. He's also possibly the greatest goal scorer ever. Pittsburgh before that? Sestito is a thug, but same thing, not a "difficult" player. And then your guys--Chicago with Kane, LA with Richards. Established stars who got into ****. I have no doubt that Rangers would be playing the Patty Kane or Mike Richards of 2009, despite their issues. Either way, it's not like you need "troubled players" to win. You can win with a good character group.

We've also drafted Lakatos, who has issues, and they've ruined his chances of every getting a deal. We took Sean Day, a guy known, right or wrong, for being fat and lazy and not committed to practicing. They only got rid of Robin Kovacs because he asked to be released. A couple years prior they took Duclair. They have no problem taking chances on guys, or working with guys with problems. Just because some people feel it's wrong to sit out DeAngelo for whatever issues he's having without even knowing what those issues are, doesn't make it so.

How does DeAngelo make it as a regular if they are not going to play him?

Rangers played Duclair, and traded him.

Philly played their players, before and even after that dry island thing was going on and then traded them. LA seemed to deal with them just fine.

Evander Kane was played before and after they threw his tracksuit into the shower. San Jose seems to be dealing with him fine so far.

Even Detroit played Avery, at least enough to put him into a trade.

Rangers gave Jared Stoll more of a chance than they are giving DeAngelo, Ryan Malone, Carcillo, Purinton, Avery.

Either DeAngelo has done something so bad that the Rangers are rightfully not giving him a chance, or he has not and the Rangers are applying a different standard to him than they have in the past.

It's not like I am saying DeAngelo should be played and stay on the Rangers, I am saying more of less that could be an option or they could at least play him enough to do with him what they did with Duclair.
 
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deangelo was a guy that this organization was interested for a while. gorton said so after the deal. he wasn't a throw in, he was someone they thought would add talent to the roster.

riding them selves of steps contract, a high 1st rounder and ADA was a nice haul.

they were definitely aware of him and at the time, didnt have shatty. they needed an righty pmd. he was on their radar is what i gathered and a big part of that deal.

i think it continues to be some attitude form ADA. this was to be his year to start and yet, pionk and mcquaid are getting the minutes and yet marc staal stars in this own broadway play "staals stevie wonder blind pilon defense show", nightly.

can you blame ADA ? he bummed. less talented player playing and sloth like aged dman never doesnt play.

he could handle it better im sure but when hes played hes played great. he just needs to play more and cant seem to get the minutes.
 
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How does DeAngelo make it as a regular if they are not going to play him?

Rangers played Duclair, and traded him.

Philly played their players, before and even after that dry island thing was going on and then traded them. LA seemed to deal with them just fine.

Evander Kane was played before and after they threw his tracksuit into the shower. San Jose seems to be dealing with him fine so far.

Even Detroit played Avery, at least enough to put him into a trade.

Rangers gave Jared Stoll more of a chance than they are giving DeAngelo, Ryan Malone, Carcillo, Purinton, Avery.

Either DeAngelo has done something so bad that the Rangers are rightfully not giving him a chance, or he has not and the Rangers are applying a different standard to him than they have in the past.

It's not like I am saying DeAngelo should be played and stay on the Rangers, I am saying more of less that could be an option or they could at least play him enough to do with him what they did with Duclair.
Again, Kane was in the league for six years before the tracksuit thing. Richards was coming of 75 in 73 and had 80 points the year of the "Dry Island"; Carter had 84 that year. Star players. Stars. Detroit played Avery 70+ games with Detroit. DeAngelo could absolutely get to that number here. Or not--they gave Duclair just 18 before cutting bait. ADA and the original Tony D are similar--young, unproven. No benefit of the doubt. No automatic spot.

Stoll, Carcillo, Avery. You're talking about established NHLers when they came to the Rangers. Not comparable to DeAngelo. Purinton? Purinton was 15 years ago and has literally nothing to do with the current leadership group.

You're using as examples a bunch of guys who were star players with their teams and their teams dealt with it accordingly. Or, guys that were established NHL players who the Rangers made calculated decisions to acquire. Or--guys like Purinton and Avery who haven't been affiliated with us for many years.

The whole point is DeAngelo is an unproven player who doesn't just get to play because he's talented and has upside. The Rangers evidently see a problem with him and they feel the best course of action in addressing that problem is benching him; something Arizona did and something Tampa didn't need to do because they traded him for a lower pick before it got to this point. The Rangers and handling it as they see fit. Without knowing the details, and knowing this kid's history, I have absolutely no reason to doubt their method. And it is in no way a double-standard or anything like that.

I have nothing further to add. Hopefully the guy gets his shit together.
 
I as well will take a break from the subject, I hope the Rangers and him get their shit together.
 
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I think troubled players can be rehabilitated in a way, I'd call it just playing them. Of course if they are skipping practice or whatever there should be some sort of punishment, but for the most part I do not expect a hockey team that has 23-25 guys and a prospect pool that has 23-25 kids to be some sort of angelic bunch where they all get along or do not have some attitude. I find that to just be the nature of professional sports.

Players like Kane, both of them, Avery, Downie, Carter, Richards, etc cause some issues, yet some teams are able to find ways to deal with that rather than turn the player into a non asset. At some point the Rangers are going to have to choose talent or wholesomeness(for as lack of better word), teams that have won cups (or teams in other pro sports who won their version of the championship) have had players that are troublesome on them, more than one or two players that would otherwise likely be perceived as jerks or whatever.

If the philosophy is, the team will be filled with character, leadership, whatever traits over talent where does that leave the Rangers chances of eventually winning a cup when other teams are able to deal with difficult talented players and the Rangers are not?

Good points all around, but I dont think DeAngelo is as talented as the players you named, or as talented as many on this board perceive him to be. This is just my opinion, but I think if you're asking the question "Well how can we know if he can make it in the NHL if he's not playing," AND the guy has a poor attitude, he's as good as dead in the water.
 
DeAngelo turned 23 today.

Personally, I’m not really buying into the attitude issues, although I will say this team could use some attitude on and off the ice.

2 out of 9 GP isn’t enough though. Quinn needs to make room for him. He has 2 points and is a +1. Were a rebuilding team. ADA needs ice time.
 
I don't get how someone can not buy attitude issues being most of the reason he sits for a few reasons, namely;
1) it's the simplest explanation
2) he has a documented history of said attitude issues
3) the alternate explanation involves the Rangers management and coaching being incompetent, stupid, evil, or a combination of the above
 
Here’s the deal with him

The coach clearly doesn’t think he’s good enough to be playing, but management doesn’t want to waive him and lose him, and they can’t trade him cause he was no value.

So we’ve arrived at the place we are now

And eventually they’ll either just waive him and lose him for nothing, or move him for Steven Kampfer

Kids time is done here, unfortunately
 
I don't understand what more he has to do than what he did in preaseason and in the limited time he got. I don't see the negatives that coaches are seeing in this guy.
 
Here’s the deal with him

The coach clearly doesn’t think he’s good enough to be playing, but management doesn’t want to waive him and lose him, and they can’t trade him cause he was no value.

So we’ve arrived at the place we are now

And eventually they’ll either just waive him and lose him for nothing, or move him for Steven Kampfer

Kids time is done here, unfortunately

How is it that the coach doesn't think he's good enough to play yet simultaneously in the two games he played he was 2nd on the team among dmen in 5v5 ice time (2nd and 3rd in all situations)? That logic doesn't follow.
 
How is it that the coach doesn't think he's good enough to play yet simultaneously in the two games he played he was 2nd on the team among dmen in 5v5 ice time (2nd and 3rd in all situations)? That logic doesn't follow.
And yet he can’t get playing time ahead of McQuaid, who’s not all that good

Not sure what to tell everyone, he’s not long for this team. They gambled on him with the trade and it isn’t going to pay off

I like him and want him to work out but more likely than not it’s not going to
 
The coach is trying to instil a work ethic amongst this group and future players, they are doing this now to stomp out the problems at practice, off ice, attitude, whatever it is. The coaching staff cant give people free passes, so my advice to DeAngelo would be to listen to them and whatever they are telling you to do, do it. This isnt about this coach, ..the last coach or any other coaches and GM's that have turned away from him, it's on him.
 
At this point the kid needs to be dealt or waived.

I’m sure his agent has said so

He’s in no mans land

No one wants to be a healthy scratch on one of the worst teams in the league

Meanwhile, Marc staal plays every game and looks like a tire fire.
 
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At this point the kid needs to be dealt or waived.

I’m sure his agent has said so

He’s in no mans land

No one wants to be a healthy scratch on one of the worst teams in the league

Meanwhile, Marc staal plays every game and looks like a tire fire.

Theres a reason Quinn gave the letters to those he did. Those are the guys he knows will push the pace at practice and teach the younger guys how to be a professional regardless of their in game play. This year is about setting an example for the future about how Ranger players going to train, practice and react to coaching. DeAngelo is going to get his chance but he might have to wait until the trade deadline to get in the lineup consistantly unless he forces the coach to play him by bringing everything at practice and when he gets his games, proving himself as being a consistant player who works hard and is coachable. I'm not sticking up for Staal as I believe us to be better with another player but we aren't a "take Staal out" move away from being a contender. This team and its prospects are learning how to be a Ranger under Quinn. That's just my opinion.
 
Staal isn't pushing the pace anywhere.

At some point, in game performance has to matter. Staal was horrendous last game and has been for almost every game so far.
 
I likewise don’t want to keep talking about this. Something has to give. I think I’m going to throw up when he gets traded and lights it up with some other team.
 
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I likewise don’t want to keep talking about this. Something has to give. I think I’m going to throw up when he gets traded and lights it up with some other team.
I kind of feel like he's going to be one of those guys who always looked pretty good but never got a great chance anywhere for whatever reason.

I get the dedication to Staal to some extent but the guy is very, very clearly in his twilight years and Tony is still a young player. Letting him go to waste like this every night while Staal plays is a terrible move imo. Rotating them I wouldn't love but would at least sort of understand.
 
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I'm just really confused by why he isn't getting an opportunity. it's not even that I am angry, I just don't really understand why he would be the odd-man out consistently when both his underlying numbers and on-ice play have been solid for anyone let alone a recently turned 23 year old. It's like they are assuming 22-23 year old RD's with high offensive ceilings just drop from the sky...
 
I'm just really confused by why he isn't getting an opportunity. it's not even that I am angry, I just don't really understand why he would be the odd-man out consistently when both his underlying numbers and on-ice play have been solid for anyone let alone a recently turned 23 year old. It's like they are assuming 22-23 year old RD's with high offensive ceilings just drop from the sky...

That’s why a lot of us are speculating that either it’s a attitude issue or, as I’ve speculated, it’s something about playing within this system that DeAngelo is having a hard time figuring it out.
 
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