Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo (MOD WARNINGS: Post #12/#900)

[Crease]

Do we have any evidence of these attitude issues?

Suspended in draft year by OHL for abuse of an official.
Suspended in draft year by OHL for comments made to a teammate.
Suspended in D+1 year by OHL for abuse of an official.
Healthy scratch for 8 games by AHL team.
Suspended by NHL for abuse of an official.

He's also been moved numerous times (traded once by OHL team, traded twice by NHL teams). That could go either way.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Suspended in draft year by OHL for abuse of an official.
Suspended in draft year by OHL for comments made to a teammate.
Suspended in D+1 year by OHL for abuse of an official.
Healthy scratch for 8 games by AHL team.
Suspended by NHL for 3 games for abuse of an official.

He's also been moved numerous times (traded once by OHL team, traded twice by NHL teams). That could go either way.

So he doesn't like officials.. who does? especially with how shit NHL ones are i can't imagine how bad they are in the minors

 

[offdacrossbar]

hes both labeled and continues to reinforce the behavior that allowed for the label.

i question his intelligence

i mean seriously ? you play for the nyr and you cant act properly to allow a coach to play you.

messed up

 

[pblawr]

The other thing about DeAngelo is that when he was drafted after putting up 1.5 ppg in the OHL, he was probably already a borderline NHL player. Fast forward 5 years and he's still a borderline NHL player. He put up 43 points in 69 games in his first AHL season in 2015-2016 and then his AHL production went down each of the next two years. He's a guy who seems to have barely developed or improved since he was drafted.

Tampa's head scout alluded to this in regards to his defensive play in an interview with the Athletic this offseason and essentially implies that is why TB moved him (Meet the behind-the-scenes MVP of Lightning's resurgence:...):

“You get as much information about players, you put all that together and project how they’re going to mature,” Murray said. “Then you pick who you think is going to be the best NHL player. Not all of them mature or develop at the same speed.

“Tony DeAngelo has talent. There are parts of his game that haven’t come along as quickly as we thought they might. He’s still playing in the NHL and the Rangers have hopes he can be that elite puck-moving defenseman and create offensive chances. He has to develop certain parts of his game to be that player. It’s still early in Tony’s career to say he’s not going to be that guy. In 5-6 years from now, if he’s one of the top offensive defensemen in the NHL, you can say he went where he should have gone? Maybe we won’t know.”

Personally, when I look at the lack of development over a 5 year period (in addition to getting traded by 2 teams) it seems to me like there has to be a reason for that, and the obvious concern would be that if he doesn't change that, he's still just going to be a borderline NHL player in another 5 years.

 

[Rempe73]

here's a crazy idea what if ADA does what the coach has asked him to do and earns his way back into the lineup instead of just being handed a spot based on his age

I know I’ll get sh*t for this, but:
1. We gave up a lot for him.
2. He has the most potential out of any of our U-25 players (minus Chytil maybe).
3. We need to see what we have with him.
4. We don’t want to stunt his development.
5. Who cares if he’s not giving 100% at practice? Or if he has attitude? His skill level is too high to not play him.
6. He’s one of our top 3-4 defensemen.
7. Playing him may motivate him to go and do whatever the coach wants him to do. ADA needs to respect Quinn, but Quinn needs to respect his talent.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

“Tony DeAngelo has talent. There are parts of his game that haven’t come along as quickly as we thought they might. He’s still playing in the NHL and the Rangers have hopes he can be that elite puck-moving defenseman and create offensive chances. He has to develop certain parts of his game to be that player. It’s still early in Tony’s career to say he’s not going to be that guy. In 5-6 years from now, if he’s one of the top offensive defensemen in the NHL, you can say he went where he should have gone? Maybe we won’t know.”
.

You pointed out some of the most generic statements. You can find similar stuff on 80% of the league when they were trying to break into the league

 

[pblawr]

I know I’ll get sh*t for this, but:
1. We gave up a lot for him.
2. He has the most potential out of any of our U-25 players (minus Chytil maybe).
3. We need to see what we have with him.
4. We don’t want to stunt his development.
5. Who cares if he’s not giving 100% at practice? Or if he has attitude? His skill level is too high to not play him.
6. He’s one of our top 3-4 defensemen.
7. Playing him may motivate him to go and do whatever the coach wants him to do. ADA needs to respect Quinn, but Quinn needs to respect his talent.

I think the counterpoint would be that not giving 100% at practice is what's stunting his development.

 

[offdacrossbar]

The other thing about DeAngelo is that when he was drafted after putting up 1.5 ppg in the OHL, he was probably already a borderline NHL player. Fast forward 5 years and he's still a borderline NHL player. He put up 43 points in 69 games in his first AHL season in 2015-2016 and then his AHL production went down each of the next two years. He's a guy who seems to have barely developed or improved since he was drafted.

Tampa's head scout alluded to this in regards to his defensive play in an interview with the Athletic this offseason and essentially implies that is why TB moved him (Meet the behind-the-scenes MVP of Lightning's resurgence:...):

“You get as much information about players, you put all that together and project how they’re going to mature,” Murray said. “Then you pick who you think is going to be the best NHL player. Not all of them mature or develop at the same speed.

“Tony DeAngelo has talent. There are parts of his game that haven’t come along as quickly as we thought they might. He’s still playing in the NHL and the Rangers have hopes he can be that elite puck-moving defenseman and create offensive chances. He has to develop certain parts of his game to be that player. It’s still early in Tony’s career to say he’s not going to be that guy. In 5-6 years from now, if he’s one of the top offensive defensemen in the NHL, you can say he went where he should have gone? Maybe we won’t know.”

Personally, when I look at the lack of development over a 5 year period (in addition to getting traded by 2 teams) it seems to me like there has to be a reason for that, and the obvious concern would be that if he doesn't change that, he's still just going to be a borderline NHL player in another 5 years.

this says absolutely nothing.

hes not perfect.
hes still developing
hes young
hes got skill
he may be really really good
he may not
who knows

lol

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

So he doesn't like officials.. who does? especially with how **** NHL ones are i can't imagine how bad they are in the minors

With an answer like that, no wonder you can’t grasp why he isn’t playing

 

[Rempe73]

The other thing about DeAngelo is that when he was drafted after putting up 1.5 ppg in the OHL, he was probably already a borderline NHL player. Fast forward 5 years and he's still a borderline NHL player. He put up 43 points in 69 games in his first AHL season in 2015-2016 and then his AHL production went down each of the next two years. He's a guy who seems to have barely developed or improved since he was drafted.

Tampa's head scout alluded to this in regards to his defensive play in an interview with the Athletic this offseason and essentially implies that is why TB moved him (Meet the behind-the-scenes MVP of Lightning's resurgence:...):

“You get as much information about players, you put all that together and project how they’re going to mature,” Murray said. “Then you pick who you think is going to be the best NHL player. Not all of them mature or develop at the same speed.

“Tony DeAngelo has talent. There are parts of his game that haven’t come along as quickly as we thought they might. He’s still playing in the NHL and the Rangers have hopes he can be that elite puck-moving defenseman and create offensive chances. He has to develop certain parts of his game to be that player. It’s still early in Tony’s career to say he’s not going to be that guy. In 5-6 years from now, if he’s one of the top offensive defensemen in the NHL, you can say he went where he should have gone? Maybe we won’t know.”

Personally, when I look at the lack of development over a 5 year period (in addition to getting traded by 2 teams) it seems to me like there has to be a reason for that, and the obvious concern would be that if he doesn't change that, he's still just going to be a borderline NHL player in another 5 years.

I don’t think lack of talent or skill ever held him back. When I watched him this preseason and in the 2 regular season games he played, I didn’t see a “lack of development.” I saw very good puck skills, passing, and skating. I saw improved defensive play. Physicality. Good awareness. Only thing that needs improving is his shooting, although his wrister is pretty good.

It has to be a lack of effort and/or maturity. There is no way he’s a “borderline NHL player.” He is an NHL player. 2nd pairing. But he has other problems he needs to fix.

 

[Rempe73]

I think the counterpoint would be that not giving 100% at practice is what's stunting his development.

I would say getting into games is more important for him right now.

 

[nyr2k2]

So he doesn't like officials.. who does? especially with how **** NHL ones are i can't imagine how bad they are in the minors

Right, no one likes them. How many guys get suspended multiple times for abusing them?

I don't think really anyone is definitely saying attitude issues are the only thing causing his lack of appearances. I think most of us are looking at his history coupled with the fact that on a team full of guys, including other young defenseman, that are struggling to adapt to a new system, he for some reason is the only one who gets benched for weeks. And from that, we're forming logical assumptions. They are assumptions, but they're not based on some out-of-left-field shit, here.

I just think it's naive, given the kid's career to this point, to act as if maturity issues or attitude problems aren't a possible factor here.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think the counterpoint would be that not giving 100% at practice is what's stunting his development.

BINGO!

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Whatever issues he may have, it is down right criminal that he sits while some of these other guys skate. We are rebuilding, play the young guys, see what you have, and if they improve good if not cut bait.

 

[nyr2k2]

I know I’ll get sh*t for this, but:
1. We gave up a lot for him.
2. He has the most potential out of any of our U-25 players (minus Chytil maybe).
3. We need to see what we have with him.
4. We don’t want to stunt his development.
5. Who cares if he’s not giving 100% at practice? Or if he has attitude? His skill level is too high to not play him.
6. He’s one of our top 3-4 defensemen.
7. Playing him may motivate him to go and do whatever the coach wants him to do. ADA needs to respect Quinn, but Quinn needs to respect his talent.

1. We gave up a lot for the #7, dumping Stepan's contract before his NMC kicked in, and DeAngelo
2. Highly debatable
3. Ideally, yes
4. Ideally, no
5. I care, if what you're describing the coaches care, and probably other guys that bust their ass care
6. Maybe?
7. This makes it sound like ADA is some star defenseman, like we're benching Brent Burns. ADA is a 23-year-old defenseman on his third organization who has played 70 games. Quinn most certainly does not need to "respect his talent."

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Whatever issues he may have, it is down right criminal that he sits while some of these other guys skate. We are rebuilding, play the young guys, see what you have, and if they improve good if not cut bait.

I agree with the statement but the issue is that Quinn is trying to create a culture here and somehow DeAngelo is going against that at practice. If he wants to be part of this rebuild he has to get on board, if not who knows what happens to him, how many more teams are going to give him chances.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

1. We gave up a lot for the #7, dumping Stepan's contract before his NMC kicked in, and DeAngelo
2. Highly debatable
3. Ideally, yes
4. Ideally, no
5. I care, if what you're describing the coaches care, and probably other guys that bust their ass care
6. Maybe?
7. This makes it sound like ADA is some star defenseman, like we're benching Brent Burns. ADA is a 23-year-old defenseman on his third organization who has played 70 games. Quinn most certainly does not need to "respect his talent."

Saying hes on his third organization is a misleading statement. this isnt clendenning, theres top level pedigree here

 

[nyr2k2]

Saying hes on his third organization is a misleading statement. this isnt clendenning, theres top level pedigree here

Yeah and those guys don't generally end up in three places by age 21.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

I agree with the statement but the issue is that Quinn is trying to create a culture here and somehow DeAngelo is going against that at practice. If he wants to be part of this rebuild he has to get on board, if not who knows what happens to him, how many more teams are going to give him chances.

I think atleast 20 teams would claim him if he was waived today. This is what high ceiling talent looks like.

 

[Kovalev27]

my guess? he knows he should be playing but coaches have favorites and he's probably sulking about it like he did when he went down to Hartford last year. Quinn isn't going to stand for it. two guys butting heads. he's going to have to start to work harder and earn a spot back. do I agree with it? no. but I also don't like sulkers. its going to be up to DeAngelo to force them into playing him and keeping him in the lineup.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Yeah and those guys don't generally end up in three places by age 21.

But they get traded all the time for various reasons. Forsberg, Drouin, Domi, Sergachev, Hanifan...

 

[nyr2k2]

But they get traded all the time for various reasons. Forsberg, Drouin, Domi, Sergachev, Hanifan...

Ok, fine, you want to ignore that aspect, address my other points or any of the other posts making totally legitimate points that you've completely ignored.

Other than maybe Drouin, to compare the other guys to DeAngelo is absurd.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think atleast 20 teams would claim him if he was waived today. This is what high ceiling talent looks like.

That's an opinion, none of us really know what's going on behind closed doors here in NY or anywhere else he has been. If theres a general feeling he is a cancer amongst GM's i doubt you'd find 20, someone would take him but if the same warts show it would be his last stop. It would be best for him and us if he listened to this coach who is trying to fix him and get on board before his career tanks. There's obviously a problem because AV and now Quinn both needed him to be on this team and he isnt playing.

 

[Off Sides]

What was the point of trading for him in the first place?

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

That's an opinion, none of us really know what's going on behind closed doors here in NY or anywhere else he has been. If theres a general feeling he is a cancer amongst GM's i doubt you'd find 20, someone would take him but if the same warts show it would be his last stop. It would be best for him and us if he listened to this coach who is trying to fix him and get on board before his career tanks. There's obviously a problem because AV and now Quinn both needed him to be on this team and he isnt playing.

I think it’s fair to say Atleast 1 other team would because if they wouldn’t ADA would be in Hartford