Confirmed with Link: Toffoli to CGY for Emil Heineman, Tyler Pitlick + Picks (Part 2)

[Habs Halifax]

Can't disagree but it will take more than 3 years. It will take 8 years. Mark my post. The Habs are the new Coyotes or the new Sabres. Sabres used to be a good team 20 years ago when they had Brière and Hasek.

3-5 is my range but I'm with Hughes... Setting a timeline is foolish cause you can't predict the future. All we can do is increase our draft power, draft well, and develop well. Establish a winning culture in Laval and stop yoyoing young players who are not ready.

 

[calder candidate]

That's part age, part position and part Bergevin being an idiot.

Agreed but he isn’t the only one I remember plenty of guy that weren’t better than Toffoli or didn’t compare favorably in term or age, contract and still got similar or better return

Foligno for 1st+ 4th
Coleman for 1st + N. Foote
Goodrow + 3rd for 1st+ Greco
Stastny for 1st+ prospect
Shattenkirk + for 1st +
Hanzal + for 1st, 2nd +
Ladd + for 1st, 3rd and Dani
Tatar for 1st, 2nd , 3rd

 

[Habs Halifax]

How often does a player like Tavares go to UFA? And when they do how often do they choose a Canadian market?

He might literally be the one and only example of that happening.

Banking on a superstar centerman going to UFA and signing in Montreal is a risky gamble imo

Agreed. Step one is assembling a very good young core who rises and then you look at trying to fill holes (either with trades or UFA signing). It's going to be a while before guys want to join the Habs and yeah, how often to guys like Tavares become UFA. Very rare and they choose Montreal?

Questrade quote: "hope is not a plan"

 

[JoelWarlord]

Banking on a superstar centerman going to UFA and signing in Montreal is a risky gamble imo

Agreed. Step one is assembling a very good young core who rises and then you look at trying to fill holes (either with trades or UFA signing). It's going to be a while before guys want to join the Habs and yeah, how often to guys like Tavares become UFA. Very rare and they choose Montreal?

Questrade quote: "hope is not a plan"

I agree with you both. I'm not saying we should expect to sign a player like Tavares or that it should be part of the team's plan. I'm saying that Toronto stripped it to the studs and had two years of a scorched earth tank and were able to sign a franchise player in UFA just 18 months after the tanking phase ended, as a direct response to someone else saying we won't be able to sign UFAs in the future.

If Toronto was able to lure a player of that calibre just 18 months after a tank I don't think the Habs will have any problems attracting the necessary UFAs in the future.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Agreed but he isn’t the only one I remember plenty of guy that weren’t better than Toffoli or didn’t compare favorably in term or age, contract and still got similar or better return

Foligno for 1st+ 4th
Coleman for 1st + N. Foote
Goodrow + 3rd for 1st+ Greco
Stastny for 1st+ prospect
Shattenkirk + for 1st +
Hanzal + for 1st, 2nd +
Ladd + for 1st, 3rd and Dani
Tatar for 1st, 2nd , 3rd

Teams are getting smarter, but they still care a lot more about raw skills a player has rather than what impact they have on a game. Its why Montreal is probably asking more for a guy like Anderson even if Toffoli is a much better player.

 

[Canadienna]

Didn’t McGuire already report on this? He sign here to play for a team which seem to be in progression with Suzuki and KK… Now the outlook is bad…

If it didn’t come out already pretty confident it is doing to come out eventually. It isn’t because he and is wife are better at the PR game, that he didn’t request a trade…

No, I don't believe McGuire did. Doesn't feel right to tarnish Toffoli based on nothing but your feeling.

 

[Natey]

That's part age, part position and part Bergevin being an idiot.

And part Dvorak being far better than he's shown because no one is playing well in this shit show.

 

[Natey]

Half of NHL players never wanted to play in Canadian markets in the best of times, you think they want to now with the way this country by contrast is handling the pandemic vs the USA?

I honestly could care less what your thoughts are on mandates, lockdowns etc...your opinion means nothing when an NHL player can choose between more freedoms and less tax, vs restrictions, lockdowns, worse weather and infinitely worse fanbase and media...

UFA won't be signing here. Top players aren't available for trade often. When they are you need pieces to trade for them. And Hoffman and Drouin won't interest teams. We need to rebuild through the draft and proper development. It is the only way this team turns around.

You clearly do care about opinions because you're treating it as an automatic negative. There's probably a large number of players who would treat restrictions it as a positive.

 

[blarneylad]

I agree with you both. I'm not saying we should expect to sign a player like Tavares or that it should be part of the team's plan. I'm saying that Toronto stripped it to the studs and had two years of a scorched earth tank and were able to sign a franchise player in UFA just 18 months after the tanking phase ended, as a direct response to someone else saying we won't be able to sign UFAs in the future.

If Toronto was able to lure a player of that calibre just 18 months after a tank I don't think the Habs will have any problems attracting the necessary UFAs in the future.

Their rebuild was actually longer than 2 years though.

Look at players they drafted. Nylander, Rielly, Marner and Matthews are all top 10 picks which means bare minimum 4 years of bad hockey right there. Not to mention Kadri was a 7th overall going a bit further back.

Montreal during a similar timeline drafted Kotkaniemi, Galchenyuk and Sergachev in the top 10.

So they had some tough years for more then just 2. And not just that, look how much extra time it can take for that group to be able to put it together. Matthews was the last shoe to drop in their rebuild in 2016 they still don't have a cup

 

[blarneylad]

You clearly do care about opinions because you're treating it as an automatic negative. There's probably a large number of players who would treat restrictions it as a positive.

Maybe, but doubtful. You could go play in California if you want a more Canadian-like restrictions yet still have better weather and less drama with fans and media.

This chatroom isn't the place for this discussion to continue though.

 

[Rockomax]

Toffoli requested a trade and he executed, this wasn’t a one in a life offer than he could past or him trying to sell high…

What you're stating as fact has not been corroborated by many insiders as far as I know. Plus his wife did not seem happy either. But it is possible that he requested a trade. Besides Martin McGuire who else "confirmed" that he requested a trade?

 

[Natey]

Maybe, but doubtful. You could go play in California if you want a more Canadian-like restrictions yet still have better weather and less drama with fans and media.

This chatroom isn't the place for this discussion to continue though.

Then maybe you should edit your original post since you clearly were inviting it.

 

[blarneylad]

Then maybe you should edit your original post since you clearly were inviting it.

Tell me how you really feel then. Floor is open

 

[Natey]

Tell me how you really feel then. Floor is open

I just hate when people bring something up, take jabs while trying to hide it, then try to shut the conversation down after bringing it up themselves. Just silly, to be honest.

Anyway, have a good one.

 

[blarneylad]

I just hate when people bring something up, take jabs while trying to hide it, then try to shut the conversation down after bringing it up themselves. Just silly, to be honest.

Anyway, have a good one.

My only point, which I still hold to be very valid, is that Canada has handled things a certain way that would likely discourage players from wanting to come.

You made a decently valid point too to say that may encourage certain guys to want to come here. Perspective quite likely the case. But the fact is that Montreal has cards stacked against it as is without adding anything else that can be prohibitive.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Their rebuild was actually longer than 2 years though.
Look at players they drafted. Nylander, Rielly, Marner and Matthews are all top 10 picks which means bare minimum 4 years of bad hockey right there. Not to mention Kadri was a 7th overall going a bit further back.

Shanahan didn't join the team until after the 13-14 season though. They went into 13-14 trying to be good and they didn't start rebuilding until after that season. Nylander was picked by their new front office after they moved on from Nonis, and then they tanked for two years and picked Marner and Matthews. Rielly and Kadri aren't really products of their rebuild either, they were trying to be good back then and just sucked.

Either way, I'm not trying to use Toronto as a blueprint for anything. I literally only brought them up in direct response to someone else who said we won't be able to sign UFAs. My only point is that a team that has equally unattractive off-ice factors has been able to sign UFAs readily and that Montreal will have no trouble doing the same with a good young core.

 

[Natey]

My only point, which I still hold to be very valid, is that Canada has handled things a certain way that would likely discourage players from wanting to come.

You made a decently valid point too to say that may encourage certain guys to want to come here. Perspective quite likely the case. But the fact is that Montreal has cards stacked against it as is without adding anything else that can be prohibitive.

Again, your opinion. And really hard to even speculate on because so many people don't speak of it. Personally, I'd prefer it. You would obviously would not.

Anyway - I'll miss Toffoli a shit ton. Dude was the best.

 

[Habs]

Fair question. They should ask Hughes at the first opportunity when he gives a presser.

I'm worried about having no real 'direction' just like the last idiot. Big skilled teams always come out on top, need to make room for the smaller players here like CC, Leks and the other smurfs

 

[dcyhabs]

You clearly do care about opinions because you're treating it as an automatic negative. There's probably a large number of players who would treat restrictions it as a positive.

Most NHL players aren't in the right age, education, or maturity group to appreciate anything that in any way restricts partying, especially on the road. Maybe some who see and care about older relatives.

 

[Captain Mountain]

And part Dvorak being far better than he's shown because no one is playing well in this shit show.

Maybe, but his numbers are well within his career norm. His defensive game has slipped which may be due to the team, but it was always pretty overrated.

 

[dcyhabs]

I'm worried about having no real 'direction' just like the last idiot. Big skilled teams always come out on top, need to make room for the smaller players here like CC, Leks and the other smurfs

You need some balance. Calgary has the big players to open space for Gaudreau and Toffoli, and neither of them needs it as much as say, Drouin, Hoffman, and Caufield. Montreal had some balance but when they lost Danault, KK, Weber, Edmundson, and (not literally) Petry then "replaced" them with Savard, Hoffman, and Dvorak they had none. Losing all your best players is bad, trying to build lines with only small snipers makes it worse.

Big skilled teams can be better with a couple of elusive small guys. Teams that have mainly elusive small guys only work in the NHL when the officiating is in a "no holding" phase. Read "never" in the playoffs.

MB went out and made individual deals to get single players and then heaped them together and expected the coach to make a team. Gorton and Hughes appear to be looking for skillsets they need and players who will work for the team in future. I hope they get it right. Calgary looks to be doing OK, I expect Toffoli to do well.

 

[Runner77]

Listening to Suzuki talk about what Toffoli meant to him and the team, was heartbreaking.

 

[Runner77]

Why are you torturing yourself man? Is this season not enough pain?

When a trade happens, I surf through all sports media. I agree, it’s hopeless. I’ve been hoping like a fool that 690 management is hearing what we are and intervenes. There is no accountability.

 

[Runner77]

What else he is going to say…

True but look at how many players have stepped forward to say that they wanted to be a part of the team: Toffoli and the Powerhorse. There may be one or two others I may have missed but most are not saying anything. Toffoli could have also chosen not to speak to that, so it means something.

 

[Runner77]

I'm worried about having no real 'direction' just like the last idiot. Big skilled teams always come out on top, need to make room for the smaller players here like CC, Leks and the other smurfs

Not as worried about direction as I was with prior management but they have yet to implement their plan, so there isn’t much to go on right now but their words.