Confirmed with Link: Toffoli to CGY for Emil Heineman, Tyler Pitlick + Picks (Part 2)

[Archijerej]

I've been listening to the noon show on 690 to try and get more info on how the Toffoli deal went down.

Instead of that, I have to hear that ill-prepared Milquetoast of Campbell asking quiz-like questions about highly speculative subjects to individuals who did not have that kind of insider knowledge. Campbell was so out of it that he asked Robertson if he thought the Habs were going to make more deals. He clearly told him that he didn't know. Same question to Marinaro and Ohane and they didn't know either, that they're just speculating.

I flipped to another station, came back. And now Campbell asks all of his 3 guests if they think the Habs will be making trades in bunches.

And then Campbell spends the rest of the time, making simpleton preambles where he keeps adding "I get that" or "I get it". I mean ... it's not that he's getting something that requires complex argumentation that results into several competing non-obvious options. He keeps getting "it", and repeating same while "it" is the most annoyingly simple thing that goes without saying.

Who turned this guy into a host? And why is this being allowed to go on? God.

Why are you torturing yourself man? Is this season not enough pain?

 

[ottawa]

Well, Toffoli is better now and for the next 4 years than Heineman (who never skated in NA rinks).
Big question mark with Heineman. Now for the next 1rst round pick, we'll see in 4 years what that player will look like. Maybe he's gonna be another bust like Habs used to draft. We know the music. If we are lucky, one of Heineman and that pick will be equal with Toffoli, in 3 to 5 years.
And I guess the very good veterans players will leave in that demolition plan, to eventually rebuilt from scratch. Strip to the studs and take 5 years to get something that looks like a nhl team. Who will be interrested in signing here as a ufa when the team is totally stripped down? I hope Gorton and Hughes have hidden cards in their pockets because any ufa player with a brain functionning will not want to sign here. Sorry optimists folks if your tire is flat.

You just described a rebuild.

 

[Archijerej]

Thats your point of view and I respect that. But in term were Montreal are in rebuild, I prefer to cash in every asset we could get to have a shorter period of rebuild. players value fluctuate a lot over the years, age, terms, production, supply and demand law, contracts, salary cap….

What you're describing does not result in a shorter period of rebuild. Quite the contrary.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

You just described a rebuild.

For the moment it's not a rebuilt, it's a demolition. Not sure if and when there will be a rebuilt.

 

[Rockomax]

I wish you well going forward
#mentalhealth

Wow very eloquent of you. Color me impressed, coming back with a half-assed insult instead of bringing a single valuable argument. Good for you

 

[Rockomax]

Thats your point of view and I respect that. But in term were Montreal are in rebuild, I prefer to cash in every asset we could get to have a shorter period of rebuild. players value fluctuate a lot over the years, age, terms, production, supply and demand law, contracts, salary cap….

Very defendable position too and I get that too. I guess it depends on how you value a player's presence in the locker room and on the ice. I'm glad we understand each other better.

Some managers will always go for the sure value (which is what Hughes did here), which has obviously many advantages.

 

[Doc5]

I miss him already

 

[calder candidate]

I guess he did request a trade which make a lot more sense now, but that still isn’t great return we paid a 1st (best of our 2 picks) + a 2nd for Dvorak who is half the player Toffoli is…

 

[calder candidate]

Very defendable position too and I get that too. I guess it depends on how you value a player's presence in the locker room and on the ice. I'm glad we understand each other better.

Some managers will always go for the sure value (which is what Hughes did here), which has obviously many advantages.

Toffoli requested a trade and he executed, this wasn’t a one in a life offer than he could past or him trying to sell high…

 

[Captain Mountain]

If we aren't competitive by the time we've brought in our top picks from 2021-2022 and 2022-23, we've done it wrong. One of the big issues we see with these young teams is guys that aren't ready/capable being put into a position to carry the roster. Trading assets for picks now and then signing FAs while we're on the up and up is likely the best way to go. It's not guaranteed to work out, but imagine if Kakko, Kravtsov, and Lafreniere were high-end players right now for NYR? They'd be as good or better than Tampa.

I'm actually having a hard time thinking of any rebuilding team in recent memory fitting into that kind of timeline unless they've been ale to get elite veterans (which the Habs don't have).

 

[Runner77]

is he scouting another Pitlick?

Lance is available. Do it, Jeff — for the lulz.

“My name is Lance Pitlick and I am an Off-Ice Stickhandling and Shooting specialist working with hockey players in-person and online ranging from beginners to current NHL players.”

About US

 

[Captain Mountain]

I guess he did request a trade which make a lot more sense now, but that still isn’t great return we paid a 1st (best of our 2 picks) + a 2nd for Dvorak who is half the player Toffoli is…

That's part age, part position and part Bergevin being an idiot.

 

[sandviper]

For the moment it's not a rebuilt, it's a demolition. Not sure if and when there will be a rebuilt.

Ha! I know what you mean. That said, sometimes you got to tear everything down before you build it up again, or whatever that cliché is.

There's going to be pain, more so than it is now, but I look at it as necessary. We're going to have to say good-bye to some beloved and some hated players and shed some contracts. We'll get some good returns, and likely some poor ones also but this team is in such shambles, we may as well go through the pain now and for the next 2-3 seasons rather than toiling in mediocrity for 4-5 years, suck for 2-3, rinse and repeat.

 

[Runner77]

Habs have had more press conferences than wins

Which is a huge win all its own.

Has to be Chantal doing her thing.

 

[Runner77]

Toffoli requested a trade and he executed, this wasn’t a one in a life offer than he could past or him trying to sell high…

He did? I thought Toffoli said he wanted to stay and liked it here.

 

[Canadienna]

I guess he did request a trade which make a lot more sense now, but that still isn’t great return we paid a 1st (best of our 2 picks) + a 2nd for Dvorak who is half the player Toffoli is…

You guess?

No, he didn't.

 

[calder candidate]

He did? I thought Toffoli said he wanted to stay and liked it here.

What else he is going to say…

 

[CheldishGamibno]

I love this uniform, he will look great in it.

 

[blarneylad]

Well, Toffoli is better now and for the next 4 years than Heineman (who never skated in NA rinks).
Big question mark with Heineman. Now for the next 1rst round pick, we'll see in 4 years what that player will look like. Maybe he's gonna be another bust like Habs used to draft. We know the music. If we are lucky, one of Heineman and that pick will be equal with Toffoli, in 3 to 5 years.
And I guess the very good veterans players will leave in that demolition plan, to eventually rebuilt from scratch. Strip to the studs and take 5 years to get something that looks like a nhl team. Who will be interrested in signing here as a ufa when the team is totally stripped down? I hope Gorton and Hughes have hidden cards in their pockets because any ufa player with a brain functionning will not want to sign here. Sorry optimists folks if your tire is flat.

Half of NHL players never wanted to play in Canadian markets in the best of times, you think they want to now with the way this country by contrast is handling the pandemic vs the USA?

I honestly could care less what your thoughts are on mandates, lockdowns etc...your opinion means nothing when an NHL player can choose between more freedoms and less tax, vs restrictions, lockdowns, worse weather and infinitely worse fanbase and media...

UFA won't be signing here. Top players aren't available for trade often. When they are you need pieces to trade for them. And Hoffman and Drouin won't interest teams. We need to rebuild through the draft and proper development. It is the only way this team turns around.

 

[calder candidate]

You guess?

No, he didn't.

Didn’t McGuire already report on this? He sign here to play for a team which seem to be in progression with Suzuki and KK… Now the outlook is bad…

If it didn’t come out already pretty confident it is doing to come out eventually. It isn’t because he and is wife are better at the PR game, that he didn’t request a trade…

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Ha! I know what you mean. That said, sometimes you got to tear everything down before you build it up again, or whatever that cliché is.

There's going to be pain, more so than it is now, but I look at it as necessary. We're going to have to say good-bye to some beloved and some hated players and shed some contracts. We'll get some good returns, and likely some poor ones also but this team is in such shambles, we may as well go through the pain now and for the next 2-3 seasons rather than toiling in mediocrity for 4-5 years, suck for 2-3, rinse and repeat.

I can't disagree, we have no other choice now. The bathroom is already stripped to the 2 x 4 and Chiarot, Petry, Gallagher, Allen and Price are still in the team. So that mean even the 2 x 4 will be removed. Do we have other choices now? No.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Half of NHL players never wanted to play in Canadian markets in the best of times, you think they want to now with the way this country by contrast is handling the pandemic vs the USA?

I honestly could care less what your thoughts are on mandates, lockdowns etc...your opinion means nothing when an NHL player can choose between more freedoms and less tax, vs restrictions, lockdowns, worse weather and infinitely worse fanbase and media...

UFA won't be signing here. Top players aren't available for trade often. When they are you need pieces to trade for them. And Hoffman and Drouin won't interest teams. We need to rebuild through the draft and proper development. It is the only way this team turns around.

Can't disagree but it will take more than 3 years. It will take 8 years. Mark my post. The Habs are the new Coyotes or the new Sabres. Sabres used to be a good team 20 years ago when they had Brière and Hasek.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Well, Toffoli is better now and for the next 4 years than Heineman (who never skated in NA rinks). Now for the next 1rst round pick, we'll see in 4 years what that player will look like. Maybe he's gonna be another bust like Habs used to draft. We know the music. If we are lucky, one of Heineman and that pick will be equal with Toffoli, in 3 to 5 years.

Maybe. Toffoli is also 2 months away from turning 30, and not realistically a player we could or should extend in 2 years when his contract is up as he's not a particularly fast skater now and it's only going to diminish with age. He's likely to be better but it's not out the question that Heineman or the combination of Heineman and the prospect we take with the 1st are more valuable in 3-4 years.

I also don't think the fact that the previous regime failed drafting in the 1st round is a reason to just be a complete doomer about the very concept of trading veterans for futures. The last time we traded a vet for a 1st + a prospect it was Rivet for Gorges and Pacioretty, I realize that's cherry-picking a good outcome but it's not like this never ever works out for anyone. Perhaps they could have traded him for younger roster players or more developed prospects instead, but it's also possible that there wasn't really a deal out there for that kind of player and we'll see that sort of trade for Dvorak/Chiarot/Petry/Gallagher etc. Trading the player also opens up cap to sign players in the future. It's not like that roster spot is just going to be a blank void now until the 1st round pick does or doesn't develop.

And I guess the very good veterans players will leave in that demolition plan, to eventually rebuilt from scratch. Strip to the studs and take 5 years to get something that looks like a nhl team. Who will be interested in signing here as a ufa when the team is totally stripped down?

It doesn't really matter whether we trade them or not, players like Petry, Edmundson, Chiarot, Gallagher etc. are not going to be impact players for the next Canadiens' core. There might be room to keep one around as a veteran leader but the choice is basically either to trade them now for future assets, or hold them and "lose" them to aging and attrition. RE: signing players, it really doesn't take very long to turn these things around. Toronto went completely scorched earth with 68 and 69 point seasons back to back. Their tank ended in April 2016, and 18 months later they were able to sign John Tavares in free agency with taxes, weather, and media every bit as unattractive as they are in Montreal.

I'm not someone that really supports a turbo tank and I don't want the team to deliberately go years and years without trying to improve, but I don't think there's really a way forward that doesn't' involve anyone older than Jake Evans being off this team in the next 3 years. I also think we're overrating Toffoli a little bit on this board, he's a good player but this is a pretty generic top 6 forward, not a can't miss 1st line stud.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Which is a huge win all its own.

Has to be Chantal doing her thing.

Anybody in management would be a fool to mess with Chantal!

 

[blarneylad]

It doesn't really matter whether we trade them or not, players like Petry, Edmundson, Chiarot, Gallagher etc. are not going to be impact players for the next Canadiens' core. There might be room to keep one around as a veteran leader but the choice is basically either to trade them now for future assets, or hold them and "lose" them to aging and attrition. RE: signing players, it really doesn't take very long to turn these things around. Toronto went completely scorched earth with 68 and 69 point seasons back to back. Their tank ended in April 2016, and 18 months later they were able to sign John Tavares in free agency with taxes, weather, and media every bit as unattractive as they are in Montreal.

I'm not someone that really supports a turbo tank and I don't want the team to deliberately go years and years without trying to improve, but I don't think there's really a way forward that doesn't' involve anyone older than Jake Evans being off this team in the next 3 years. I also think we're overrating Toffoli a little bit on this board, he's a good player but this is a pretty generic top 6 forward, not a can't miss 1st line stud.

How often does a player like Tavares go to UFA? And when they do how often do they choose a Canadian market?

He might literally be the one and only example of that happening.

Banking on a superstar centerman going to UFA and signing in Montreal is a risky gamble imo