Confirmed with Link: Toffoli to CGY for Emil Heineman, Tyler Pitlick + Picks (Part 2)

[Rockomax]

.
Gallagher was valuable on trade market 1 year ago and an absolute garbage/cap dump right now. Things can change quickly. Injury can happen. Terms on Toffoli contract was valuable right now. Player value decrease when they are getting older. Toffoli is 29 now, 30 in 2 weeks. It’s like saying. 1,99$ is cheaper than 2,00$. I mean, there is plenty of factor, but something is right, we sold high on Toffoli wich is great on a rebuild

Gallagher and Toffoli are not the same. I don't even know where to begin.

1) Their contracts; salary AND term. Enough said.
2) Toffoli has an actual talent on which he can rely

 

[billy piton]

Agreed...I think when news of the trade broke but we hadn't heard the names, everyone rushed to the Flames prospects sites and looked at the names like Pelletier, Coronnato, Zary or Poirier and convinced themselves the Habs were getting one of these players..

I guess Habs management had other ideas lol

dunno why everyone wants those midgets. it's not like we don't have enough of our owns

 

[Deebs]

It's not only about Bedard though. I just don't get why you would not keep Toffoli for at least 1 more year. You have an effective player at a reasonable price tag, why trade him now instead of keeping him for 1 more year and getting a similar return at a later date?

How do you know we'd get a similar return....maybe he gets hurt and misses all of next year?

When you make a decision to go a certain direction with an asset and an offer comes up that is agreed upon by management to make sense for that said direction, you pull the trigger and move on.

 

[Deebs]

Doubt they beat Vegas in round 2 but they have pretty good odds to win round 1.

Very possible. Vegas was supposed to steamroll us as well.

 

[Rockomax]

How do you know we'd get a similar return....maybe he gets hurt and misses all of next year?

When you make a decision to go a certain direction with an asset and an offer comes up that is agreed upon by management to make sense for that said direction, you pull the trigger and move on.

Oh come on. You can't control everything. Sometimes you play the odds. It is safe to say that the return would have been similar 1 year from now though, absolutely. Based on his performance last season and this season in one of the worst teams of all time.

 

[Hins77]

Gallagher and Toffoli are not the same. I don't even know where to begin.

1) Their contracts; salary AND term. Enough said.
2) Toffoli has an actual talent on which he can rely

Ok then, what do you think you could grab next deadline if Toffoli has a bigger slump. Like he is the 6th most producing player. 31 years old, Been injured and has 18 points in 42 games. You won’t have a better return than what you got right now.

 

[Deebs]

Oh come on. You can't control everything. Sometimes you play the odds. It is safe to say that the return would have been similar 1 year from now though, absolutely. Based on his performance last season and this season in one of the worst teams of all time.

Exactly and obviously that's what Gorts and Hughesy believe as well.

 

[Rockomax]

Ok then, what do you think you could grab next deadline if Toffoli has a bigger slump. Like he is the 6th most producing player. 31 years old, Been injured and has 18 points in 42 games. You won’t have a better return than what you got right now.

Bigger slump? He has by far the best ppg ratio on this team. The event that you are picturing is widely less likely than him staying 1st or 2nd in scoring on this team next year.

 

[Hins77]

Bigger slump? He has by far the best ppg ratio on this team. The event that you are picturing is widely less likely than him staying 1st or 2nd in scoring on this team next year.

What do you think Toffoli value is? A middle 6 winger wich getting older. Honestly. This is the best package we could get . You knew gallagher were going to slump?

 

[morhilane]

So basically, we could assume that Hughes gonna be mostly interested to get players he saw in some US arenas, and like Timmins, draft lots of college kids.

Maybe this year, because he probably saw them play more than the rest over the last two years*, but not necessarily long term.

*Covid restrictions + sport shutdown in Canada vs US.

 

[Rockomax]

What do you think Toffoli value is? A middle 6 winger wich getting older. Honestly. This is the best package we could get . You knew gallagher were going to slump?

Everyone knew Gallagher would be done by his early 30s lol. Why do you keep referring to Gallagher? Plus they have entirely different contracts. Gallagher on Toffoli's contract would have value.

Not even remotely comparable.

 

[Rockomax]

Exactly and obviously that's what Gorts and Hughesy believe as well.

Ok? So you're fine with the young players having no vets surrounding them? It's not only about getting the return they got, which they would most likely have had next season, it's also about keeping a former free agent that decided to sign a good contract with the Habs who also happens to be close to Suzuki and Caufield. You can't control everything, fact. But you can play the odds. What are the odds that a player like Toffoli (who has yet to reach 30 years old) fall off a cliff in a year and/or a very serious injury? It's not like he was going to be a pending UFA next year either, so he'd have time to come back the year after too if either scenario happened.

 

[Deebs]

Ok? So you're fine with the young players having no vets surrounding them? It's not only about getting the return they got, which they would most likely have had next season, it's also about keeping a former free agent that decided to sign a good contract with the Habs who also happens to be close to Suzuki and Caufield. You can't control everything, fact. But you can play the odds. What are the odds that a player like Toffoli (who has yet to reach 30 years old) fall off a cliff in a year and/or a very serious injury? It's not like he was going to be a pending UFA next year either, so he'd have time to come back the year after too if either scenario happened.

There's lots of vets around.

What's this "you can't control everything" nonsense you keep spewing...lol.

 

[lamp9post]

Ok? So you're fine with the young players having no vets surrounding them? It's not only about getting the return they got, which they would most likely have had next season, it's also about keeping a former free agent that decided to sign a good contract with the Habs who also happens to be close to Suzuki and Caufield. You can't control everything, fact. But you can play the odds. What are the odds that a player like Toffoli (who has yet to reach 30 years old) fall off a cliff in a year and/or a very serious injury? It's not like he was going to be a pending UFA next year either, so he'd have time to come back the year after too if either scenario happened.

Bit of an exaggeration, no?

Suzuki
Gallagher
Anderson
Byron
Armia
Hoffman
Drouin
Lehkonen

That's just the forwards. Though I suspect this list will get shorter as the deadline approaches.

 

[sampollock]

Neither with Pelletier.

Scott Wheeler is on TSN690 with Marinaro and he believes that the Habs preferred having a 1st round pick rather than a 2nd + a higher prospect. So they went for the 1st + a B prospect.

MAKES sense

 

[1909]

Bit of an exaggeration, no?

Suzuki
Gallagher
Anderson
Byron
Armia
Hoffman
Drouin
Lehkonen

That's just the forwards. Though I suspect this list will get shorter as the deadline approaches.

Great vets, indeed !

 

[Ozmodiar]

 

[Hins77]

Everyone knew Gallagher would be done by his early 30s lol. Why do you keep referring to Gallagher? Plus they have entirely different contracts. Gallagher on Toffoli's contract would have value.

Not even remotely comparable.

Then
1. Arvidsson got a 2nd pick and 3rd
2. Buchnevich a fourth liner and a second pick
3. Toffoli back in the days a 2nd pick, an ahler


Sincerely, what you were expecting with toffoli as return?

 

[Rockomax]

Bit of an exaggeration, no?

Suzuki
Gallagher
Anderson
Byron
Armia
Hoffman
Drouin
Lehkonen

That's just the forwards. Though I suspect this list will get shorter as the deadline approaches.

Suzuki is not a vet.

Gallagher, I'm not sure that he will want to stay.

Lehkonen is rumored to be on the move

Hoffman and Drouin? Really? You really want to include those in your list?

Agree on Anderson, Armia and Byron though.

 

[Rockomax]

Then
1. Arvidsson got a 2nd pick and 3rd
2. Buchnevich a fourth liner and a second pick
3. Toffoli back in the days a 2nd pick, an ahler


Sincerely, what you were expecting with toffoli as return?

Gosh you're thick you are missing my point so damn hard

The return is ok. I'm questioning the idea of trading him at all this year.

 

[psychonaut]

I really like this trade, it basically a 1st, a 2nd= Emil Heineman (Even more because 2 years developed, and you believed it going well since you trade for him) a 4th=Tyler Pitlick (Pretty sure if retain you get a 4th or keep and help your AHL players developed. 50% chance if we don't trade him, we sign him 1 year) And a 5th.

Plus, we just confirmed we are rebuilding for once and the correct way!!!!! I would have though this board would have been much happier.

 

[sheed36]

 

[Hins77]

Gosh you're thick you are missing my point so damn hard

The return is ok. I'm questioning the idea of trading him at all this year.

Because there is no reason to keep guys over 30 years old on a rebuild on 2/3 years, and rather selling high when it’s time. I don’t see the reason to keep him until his 33 years old and then trade him for a 2nd pick. Cap space is also something really important

 

[Runner77]

Why is everyone assuming Pelletier was involved in the trades? Maybe CGY didn't wan't anything to do with trading him or maybe MTL doesn't like him.

Exactly. As usual, no one knows anything. They're all playing GM and like to believe that they could have done better.

What could be questioned in my view, is the timing of the trade on a player with term, at a low cap hit and who wanted to be a part of the rebuild. Toffoli wasn't a fit in terms of speed, but he checked off a lot of boxes otherwise. I'd just be curious to know why they opted to trade him now. Would he not have kept his value if traded at the trading deadline next year?

Calgary can use Toffoli for two seasons and flip him for value when his contract is expiring. I wonder how this factored into the deal and how much leverage Hughes had on account of it.

 

[Rockomax]

There's lots of vets around.

What's this "you can't control everything" nonsense you keep spewing...lol.

What's even the point of arguing with the likes of you?

There are vets around yes, but not many with he kind of the couple of experience (including a Stanley cup) and skillset that Toffoli has that was in my opinion a good fit with Cole Caufield and Nick Suzuki.

The point about the fact that you can't control everything is that if you justify trading a player this year because of the possibility that said player might get injured next, just trade the entire damn team then, not an overly complex concept.