Confirmed with Link: Toffoli to CGY for Emil Heineman, Tyler Pitlick + Picks (Part 2)

26Mats

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
33,129
25,525
When is the last time the Habs sold high?
Maybe:

Kulak
Chiarot
Lehkonen
Toffoli

Up Next by TDL 2023 hopefully:
Drouin
Byron
Petry
Allen

Then TDL 2024:
Edmundson
Hoffman


Then TDL 2025:
Dvorak
Savard
Armia
Anderson

I'm not even going to bother dreaming about Gallagher.

But we should have a lot of extra draft picks over the next 4 drafts.
 

26Mats

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
33,129
25,525
* Scandella for a 2nd & 4th
* Shaw for a 2nd & 3rd
* Pacioretty for Tatar, Suzuki, 2nd
* Bourque for Armia, Mason, 4th, 7th
The Scandella, Chiarot, and Kulak deals are good reminders that dmen are in demand at the deadline. Hopefully Edmundson and Savard (and Petry?) will all be in good form on the final year of their deals.
 

Andrei79

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
16,015
29,556
* Scandella for a 2nd & 4th
* Shaw for a 2nd & 3rd
* Pacioretty for Tatar, Suzuki, 2nd
* Bourque for Armia, Mason, 4th, 7th

Selling high is trading a player at peak value. These are all pretty terrible examples of it. All of them were either at their lowest point of their careers up to them or weren't even NHLers.

I mean, why even talk about Bourque, who was essentially a throw in in a cap dump deal ?
 

Ezpz

No mad pls
Apr 16, 2013
15,133
11,543
Getting good value and selling high are not the same thing. Subban for Draisatl and the 4th overall pick in 2016 would have been selling high. You walk away from your franchise D for what would become a franchise center, hopefully Tkachuk and Sergachev. Quite a few bad picks that could have been made at 4th though.
 

Habs

I've almost had enough of you kids
Feb 28, 2002
22,083
16,416
Getting good value and selling high are not the same thing. Subban for Draisatl and the 4th overall pick in 2016 would have been selling high. You walk away from your franchise D for what would become a franchise center, hopefully Tkachuk and Sergachev. Quite a few bad picks that could have been made at 4th though.

imagine we could have had Tkachuk or Hughes and Sergachev.
 
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Milhouse40

Registered User
Aug 19, 2010
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* Scandella for a 2nd & 4th
* Shaw for a 2nd & 3rd
* Pacioretty for Tatar, Suzuki, 2nd
* Bourque for Armia, Mason, 4th, 7th

Hmmm.

You trade one of the best goal scorer in the NHL, +\- 35 goals every seasons.
You're supposed to get great value.....that's not selling high....

Pacioretty got Suzuki and a 2nd + a Cap dump.
Lehkonen got Barron and a 2nd + No cap dump.
Toffoli got Heineman and a 1st round pick + Cap dump

Suzuki will most likely end up the best player.....but it's not that far in terms of return.
Pacioretty was a legit 1st liner while Lehkonen was a 3rd and Toffoli is more of a 2nd liner.
 

Team_Spirit

95% Elliotte
Jul 3, 2002
39,001
20,468
Tough au Lit with 1 secondary assist on a 5 on 3 and -5 in 6 games vs Dallas

brad-treliving.jpg
 

Indca

Registered User
Mar 16, 2022
88
71
Hum we paid more for Shaw than we got in return that's not selling high ...
We paid more but Shaw was great for us and played great hockey for us and he got injured and retired right after the trade.

I think we won considering we recouped assets and handed them damaged goods.
 

FrankMTL

Registered User
Jan 6, 2005
12,469
14,213
We paid more but Shaw was great for us and played great hockey for us and he got injured and retired right after the trade.

I think we won considering we recouped assets and handed them damaged goods.
Agreed. We got the last few years of decent hockey out of him, and traded a damaged asset back to Chicago and "almost" recouped what we had traded for him to begin with in terms of draft picks (2 + 2 VS 2 +3 + 7)
 

jaffy27

From Russia wth Pain
Nov 18, 2007
25,531
23,357
Orleans
Selling high is trading a player at peak value. These are all pretty terrible examples of it. All of them were either at their lowest point of their careers up to them or weren't even NHLers.

I mean, why even talk about Bourque, who was essentially a throw in in a cap dump deal ?
Selling Dmen at trade deadline is peak value, it's when they are at the highest demand, how else do you explain a 2nd round pick for Kulak. Then the return for Chiarot was awesome.

Toffoli was a peak value sell, had just finished a on pace for 40 goals campaign.


Peak value players now:

Suzuki
Caufield
Anderson
Romanov
Guhle
1st overall pick
Evans

Is there any player in their you'd like to trade away and if so, what is your expected return and what's the overall plan now?
 

ArtPeur

Have a Snickers
Mar 30, 2010
14,211
11,903
Selling Dmen at trade deadline is peak value, it's when they are at the highest demand, how else do you explain a 2nd round pick for Kulak. Then the return for Chiarot was awesome.

Toffoli was a peak value sell, had just finished a on pace for 40 goals campaign.


Peak value players now:

Suzuki
Caufield
Anderson
Romanov
Guhle
1st overall pick
Evans

Is there any player in their you'd like to trade away and if so, what is your expected return and what's the overall plan now?

I'm not sure if Anderson is really at peak value. I'm not sure if he was more valuable before we traded for him or now. Wasn't he worse under MSL than Ducharme? He was put on different lines almost every night!

For me, it would be hard to trade any other of those assets.
 

jaffy27

From Russia wth Pain
Nov 18, 2007
25,531
23,357
Orleans
I'm not sure if Anderson is really at peak value. I'm not sure if he was more valuable before we traded for him or now. Wasn't he worse under MSL than Ducharme? He was put on different lines almost every night!

For me, it would be hard to trade any other of those assets.
ya, maybe it's not super peak, but he's fairly young with lots of speed and toughness and just scored 19 goals in like 68 games I believe while not sticking in one spot with a good center. I could see teams salivating at the idea of sticking Anderson beside a top 6 center for a great team....like on McDavid's wing or Bergeron's or Crosby or Malkin, or on the Rangers, etc, etc, etc,

Having Anderson on that 1st line was pretty much all the eggs in one basket approach and he constantly had to face the oppositions best D.

He'd look great on Wrigh's right (lol) and this can spread the talent around a bit and his matchup's wouldn't be as tough.

after we draft Wright (I'm hoping) we need to draft some big scoring LW's for the Suzuki line and the Wright line
 

Paddy17

Registered User
Apr 10, 2021
2,011
4,068
Speaking of which, what is happening with Heineman? Last i heard, he was coming over to play for the Rocket a few weeks ago, but seemed to have had an injury. Is he still injured after all this time?
 

HuGort

Registered User
Jun 15, 2012
21,142
10,261
Nova Scotia
Getting good value and selling high are not the same thing. Subban for Draisatl and the 4th overall pick in 2016 would have been selling high. You walk away from your franchise D for what would become a franchise center, hopefully Tkachuk and Sergachev. Quite a few bad picks that could have been made at 4th though.
I think they needed a #1 D to replace Subban
 

morhilane

Registered User
Feb 28, 2021
8,156
10,634
Speaking of which, what is happening with Heineman? Last i heard, he was coming over to play for the Rocket a few weeks ago, but seemed to have had an injury. Is he still injured after all this time?
I don't think he's been cleared to play yet, he was practicing with the team in a none-contact jersey last week.
 
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BaseballCoach

Registered User
Dec 15, 2006
21,171
9,535
Selling Dmen at trade deadline is peak value, it's when they are at the highest demand, how else do you explain a 2nd round pick for Kulak. Then the return for Chiarot was awesome.

Toffoli was a peak value sell, had just finished a on pace for 40 goals campaign.


Peak value players now:

Suzuki
Caufield
Anderson
Romanov
Guhle
1st overall pick
Evans

Is there any player in their you'd like to trade away and if so, what is your expected return and what's the overall plan now?
We need size so not Anderson.

Suzuki and Caufield have to stay.

Romanov is someone I might trade if someone offers a lot.

Guhle will not fetch, at this time, the return I would want for him.

The 1st overall pick is definitely tradeable, in theory. If someone absolutely wants Wright and is willing to pay a lot, why not? I pay zero mind to the fact the draft is in Montreal. You make the best hockey deals you can.

Evans is not untouchable. I'd move him for a non-elite but starting goalie or a 4th-5th D. We of course could use a first line LW, but Evans won't get us that.
 
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abo9

Registered User
Jun 25, 2017
9,149
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Hmmm.

You trade one of the best goal scorer in the NHL, +\- 35 goals every seasons.
You're supposed to get great value.....that's not selling high....

Pacioretty got Suzuki and a 2nd + a Cap dump.
Lehkonen got Barron and a 2nd + No cap dump.
Toffoli got Heineman and a 1st round pick + Cap dump

Suzuki will most likely end up the best player.....but it's not that far in terms of return.
Pacioretty was a legit 1st liner while Lehkonen was a 3rd and Toffoli is more of a 2nd liner.

the funny thing is that Tatar ended up pretty solid for us and then Bergevin failed to sell high :facepalm:

Even the argument of the cup run fails, because he was benched most of the way because he... sucks in the playoffs.


* Scandella for a 2nd & 4th
* Shaw for a 2nd & 3rd
* Pacioretty for Tatar, Suzuki, 2nd
* Bourque for Armia, Mason, 4th, 7th

You do realize that Bourque was just a contract going the other way?

The big issue with Bergevin was not finding value in trades, it was recognizing when to trade his assets to get the most from them. And by that I mean addressing needs by trading his assets.

MB found good vslue in Shaw, but he could have arguably got more before he was completely battered by injuries - still not sure why Chicago did that trade.

MB also did good (or lucked out?) by acquiring Tatar as a "cap dump - he ended up solid for us. But then, he failed to capitalize on Tatar's excellent play to orchestrate anything of value for the Habs.

And all the late rounders he got are good value for some of the players he gave away, but then those are just throwing shit at a dart board really.

Contrast this with the new management immediately capitalizing on the "cup finalist" values of guys like Chiarot, Lehkonen, Kulak, and I am way more hopeful. And the Lehk trade especially was a huge win for the Habs imo: we gained a RD prospect who's near-NHL ready! At a time where our prospect pool is barren of RD's and where we're employing AHL caliber D's to fill the spots.

And what did it cost us? A middle six winger. Ome that hurts to lose, but middle six nonetheless
 

LaP

Registered User
Jun 27, 2012
25,820
19,813
Quebec City, Canada
Agreed. We got the last few years of decent hockey out of him, and traded a damaged asset back to Chicago and "almost" recouped what we had traded for him to begin with in terms of draft picks (2 + 2 VS 2 +3 + 7)
That's still not trading high ... that's called ripping off another incompetent GM. Shaw's value was not particularly high when we traded him. Chicago was just being badly managed and it shows today.
 
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themilosh

Registered User
Sponsor
Apr 27, 2015
3,088
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Oakville, ON
Selling Dmen at trade deadline is peak value, it's when they are at the highest demand, how else do you explain a 2nd round pick for Kulak. Then the return for Chiarot was awesome.

Toffoli was a peak value sell, had just finished a on pace for 40 goals campaign.


Peak value players now:

Suzuki
Caufield
Anderson
Romanov
Guhle
1st overall pick
Evans

Is there any player in their you'd like to trade away and if so, what is your expected return and what's the overall plan now?
CC for Laff straight up
 

HuGort

Registered User
Jun 15, 2012
21,142
10,261
Nova Scotia
the funny thing is that Tatar ended up pretty solid for us and then Bergevin failed to sell high :facepalm:

Even the argument of the cup run fails, because he was benched most of the way because he... sucks in the playoffs.




You do realize that Bourque was just a contract going the other way?

The big issue with Bergevin was not finding value in trades, it was recognizing when to trade his assets to get the most from them. And by that I mean addressing needs by trading his assets.

MB found good vslue in Shaw, but he could have arguably got more before he was completely battered by injuries - still not sure why Chicago did that trade.

MB also did good (or lucked out?) by acquiring Tatar as a "cap dump - he ended up solid for us. But then, he failed to capitalize on Tatar's excellent play to orchestrate anything of value for the Habs.

And all the late rounders he got are good value for some of the players he gave away, but then those are just throwing shit at a dart board really.

Contrast this with the new management immediately capitalizing on the "cup finalist" values of guys like Chiarot, Lehkonen, Kulak, and I am way more hopeful. And the Lehk trade especially was a huge win for the Habs imo: we gained a RD prospect who's near-NHL ready! At a time where our prospect pool is barren of RD's and where we're employing AHL caliber D's to fill the spots.

And what did it cost us? A middle six winger. Ome that hurts to lose, but middle six nonetheless
Bergs drafted so badly. Passed on a lot of skill. Killed them
 

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