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Prospect Info: Timothy Liljegren

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TheGoldenJet said:
Meant Ceci, wrote Rielly.
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Well Sandin is easily the #3 PP D in the Leafs system (behind only Rielly and Barrie) so he should play more on the PP.

And actually natural stat trick screwed up and listed Ceci (#83) as being on the second half of the Leafs' second PP when it was actually (#38) Sandin (I went back and watched that PP). So Sandin did play more PP time than Rielly that game (Ceci played none). And Sandin probably played about 20:20 total TOI.
 
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Maple Leafs said:
Nhl.com has them at

2:40 Rielly
1:55 Sandin
1:33 Ceci
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Those are the same numbers as naturalstattrick has if you look at PP time instead of 5v4 PP time. However, in both cases they are listing Ceci as being out on the ice in that second PP when it is actually Sandin. So in reality Rielly played 2:40 and Sandin around 3:20 (with Ceci out for the final 8 seconds or so of the 3rd PP).
 
biotk said:
So Sandin did play more PP time than Rielly that game (Ceci played none). And Sandin probably played about 20:20 total TOI.
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Which is to my point. I remember Rielly jumping off about 35s into a PP, and Sandin playing the rest of it. So it would not surprise me if Sandin did play more PP time than Rielly too.

Clearly, none of this was merit based.
 
TheGoldenJet said:
Which is to my point. I remember Rielly jumping off about 35s into a PP, and Sandin playing the rest of it. So it would not surprise me if Sandin did play more PP time than Rielly too.

Clearly, none of this was merit based.
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Rielly had been on the ice for more than a minute before the penalty was called - a penalty which was called because Rielly was dumped onto the ice. He was completely gassed and had tried to get off the ice like 15 seconds before the penalty was called. He didn't want to be out there. You could see that he was trying to skate as little as possible when the PP started. Then on the PP they couldn't get set up and Rielly had already gone back and retrieved the puck, but they couldn't get into the Sens zone again and it was immediately sent all the way back again. Rielly didn't signal for Sandin to get on because he wanted the young guy to get more PP time. He signalled for Sandin to get on because he had nothing left. This is my biggest issue with the idea of the Leafs stacking a PP and giving them the vast majority of the PP TOI - there are going to be tired players on the unit and that is going to annoy the other players on the unit who are not tired, and those tired players are going to lead to the Leafs getting scored on a bunch when they are on the PP. (In the case in point - everyone other than Rielly was fresh - but they all went off immediately after Rielly did leading to the second unit going on in which half of them had been on for the long shift with Rielly and hadn't got much rest time in).

Note - Rielly was also gassed for the 3rd PP and went off about 10 - 15 seconds before the rest of the unit.
 
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garyturner3 said:
I dunno if I agree with that. There's definitely a valid argument that Sandin may be the better player, but wasn't Liljegren the guy they were leaning on more heavily in the playoffs last year? If I was picking one guy for the roster this year regardless of which side he plays, I'd take Liljegren. His all around game is much better right now IMO.
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He isn't ready, not even bottom pair. When I imagine NHL regulars playing against Liljegren, all of them with high IQ reading him, his mistakes are going to add up fast and loud. People see the game at different levels, Liljegren can not think the game, its chaotic for him and he rushes/guesses/makes bad decisions. The rumors of LA Kings choosing Durzi over Liljegren make's sense. LA must have been convinced of Liljegren's lack of hockey sense and very little development left in his game. I agree with that notion and feel Liljegren is a long shot to be a regular in the NHL, ever. I see Connor Carrick.
 
mapleleaf979 said:
He isn't ready, not even bottom pair. When I imagine NHL regulars playing against Liljegren, all of them with high IQ reading him, his mistakes are going to add up fast and loud. People see the game at different levels, Liljegren can not think the game, its chaotic for him and he rushes/guesses/makes bad decisions. The rumors of LA Kings choosing Durzi over Liljegren make's sense. LA must have been convinced of Liljegren's lack of hockey sense and very little development left in his game. I agree with that notion and feel Liljegren is a long shot to be a regular in the NHL, ever. I see Connor Carrick.
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Yeah you have a imagination! I don’t know what you are talking about scout! Somebody said, you can’t make this sh!t up. Well time to question that. Lilly was according to Keefe much much better than your opinion of him. Don’t B.S dude it stinks the place up :)

Likely experience/cap hit sends both Lilly and Sandin back to the Marlies and the minutes they will get there is important development for them. I don’t get the need to slag players who haven’t played a game yet and are developing.
 
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mapleleaf979 said:
He isn't ready, not even bottom pair. When I imagine NHL regulars playing against Liljegren, all of them with high IQ reading him, his mistakes are going to add up fast and loud. People see the game at different levels, Liljegren can not think the game, its chaotic for him and he rushes/guesses/makes bad decisions. The rumors of LA Kings choosing Durzi over Liljegren make's sense. LA must have been convinced of Liljegren's lack of hockey sense and very little development left in his game. I agree with that notion and feel Liljegren is a long shot to be a regular in the NHL, ever. I see Connor Carrick.
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Man, whenever you see a ridiculous take on here all you gotta do is look to the side and check out the username..
 
mapleleaf979 said:
He isn't ready, not even bottom pair. When I imagine NHL regulars playing against Liljegren, all of them with high IQ reading him, his mistakes are going to add up fast and loud. People see the game at different levels, Liljegren can not think the game, its chaotic for him and he rushes/guesses/makes bad decisions. The rumors of LA Kings choosing Durzi over Liljegren make's sense. LA must have been convinced of Liljegren's lack of hockey sense and very little development left in his game. I agree with that notion and feel Liljegren is a long shot to be a regular in the NHL, ever. I see Connor Carrick.
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If Carrick had more strength and size he’d be a reliable 3rd pairing option.
 
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I think that some people might be reading too much into preseason hockey. I thought Sandin was good, but definitely needs to work on his making quicker, good decisions. Liljegren was good at anticipating the defensive situation and getting into a good position. In any event, both will be sent down to the minors. The leafs would rather them get top line minutes and all game situations. I'm seeing Schmaltz and Kivihalme as the bottom pairing right now. Harper should be a LW.
 
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biotk said:
Rielly had been on the ice for more than a minute before the penalty was called - a penalty which was called because Rielly was dumped onto the ice. He was completely gassed and had tried to get off the ice like 15 seconds before the penalty was called. He didn't want to be out there. You could see that he was trying to skate as little as possible when the PP started. Then on the PP they couldn't get set up and Rielly had already gone back and retrieved the puck, but they couldn't get into the Sens zone again and it was immediately sent all the way back again. Rielly didn't signal for Sandin to get on because he wanted the young guy to get more PP time. He signalled for Sandin to get on because he had nothing left. This is my biggest issue with the idea of the Leafs stacking a PP and giving them the vast majority of the PP TOI - there are going to be tired players on the unit and that is going to annoy the other players on the unit who are not tired, and those tired players are going to lead to the Leafs getting scored on a bunch when they are on the PP. (In the case in point - everyone other than Rielly was fresh - but they all went off immediately after Rielly did leading to the second unit going on in which half of them had been on for the long shift with Rielly and hadn't got much rest time in).

Note - Rielly was also gassed for the 3rd PP and went off about 10 - 15 seconds before the rest of the unit.
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Rielly sure didn’t look gassed to me. And if what you wrote about all of Ceci’s PP time being Sandin’s is true, then the situation above (Rielly jumping off 40s into a PP instead of 80s into one) still doesn’t quite make up the difference of Sandin playing more PP time than Rielly.

Again, clearly none of this was merit based, if Sandin is playing more PP than both the top pairing guys.
 
TheGoldenJet said:
Rielly sure didn’t look gassed to me.
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If you go back and watch the second PP plus the preceding minute Rielly looks completely gassed - because he was.

And if what you wrote about all of Ceci’s PP time being Sandin’s is true, then the situation above (Rielly jumping off 40s into a PP instead of 80s into one) still doesn’t quite make up the difference of Sandin playing more PP time than Rielly.
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Sandin played more than Rielly on the PP. Not a lot more. They had 6 minutes of PP. Rielly played 2:40 so just under 3 minutes. Sandin played just over 3 minutes. Ceci did actually play about 8 seconds of PP time at the end of the 3rd PP. That is just the way things worked out. Sandin's unit started the first PP (because the other unit was tired), but went off about 40 seconds in. Rielly's unit played the rest. The 2nd PP Rielly's unit started but went off around 30 seconds in. Sandin's unit played the rest. The 3rd PP Rielly left after about 30 seconds (about 10 - 15 prior to the rest of his unit changing). Sandin's unit played until about 8 seconds left when both Rielly and Ceci went on.

Again, clearly none of this was merit based, if Sandin is playing more PP than both the top pairing guys.
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I don't know why you think that this was not merit based. There were two strong PP D in the lineup - Rielly and Sandin. Ceci is not a PP D. Sandin ended up with more PP time, but it wasn't due to design it was due to circumstances (Rielly having played long shifts before the 2nd and 3rd PPs started).
 
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Falon said:
I think that some people might be reading too much into preseason hockey. I thought Sandin was good, but definitely needs to work on his making quicker, good decisions. Liljegren was good at anticipating the defensive situation and getting into a good position. In any event, both will be sent down to the minors. The leafs would rather them get top line minutes and all game situations. I'm seeing Schmaltz and Kivihalme as the bottom pairing right now. Harper should be a LW.
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With Kivi being scratched tonight after having 3rd pairing minutes the game before I would say that - unless there is a reason for tonight's scratch - it really doesn't look good for his chances of making the lineup.
 
mapleleaf979 said:
He isn't ready, not even bottom pair. When I imagine NHL regulars playing against Liljegren, all of them with high IQ reading him, his mistakes are going to add up fast and loud. People see the game at different levels, Liljegren can not think the game, its chaotic for him and he rushes/guesses/makes bad decisions. The rumors of LA Kings choosing Durzi over Liljegren make's sense. LA must have been convinced of Liljegren's lack of hockey sense and very little development left in his game. I agree with that notion and feel Liljegren is a long shot to be a regular in the NHL, ever. I see Connor Carrick.
Click to expand...

I think that Liljegren will eventually be a full-time 3rd pairing guy (my timeline has been for his to play at least some 3rd pairing games in 2020-21 and then probably a full-time 3rd pairing role after that - perhaps with the Leafs, perhaps not. I think that Liljegren has a tendency to look good to fans because he has some great tools. I question his toolbox. That doesn't make me happy. Liljegren has been my favourite prospect since he was 16. I still hope that he can put it all together.
 
biotk said:
If you go back and watch the second PP plus the preceding minute Rielly looks completely gassed - because he was.



Sandin played more than Rielly on the PP. Not a lot more. They had 6 minutes of PP. Rielly played 2:40 so just under 3 minutes. Sandin played just over 3 minutes. Ceci did actually play about 8 seconds of PP time at the end of the 3rd PP. That is just the way things worked out. Sandin's unit started the first PP (because the other unit was tired), but went off about 40 seconds in. Rielly's unit played the rest. The 2nd PP Rielly's unit started but went off around 30 seconds in. Sandin's unit played the rest. The 3rd PP Rielly left after about 30 seconds (about 10 - 15 prior to the rest of his unit changing). Sandin's unit played until about 8 seconds left when both Rielly and Ceci went on.



I don't know why you think that this was not merit based. There were two strong PP D in the lineup - Rielly and Sandin. Ceci is not a PP D. Sandin ended up with more PP time, but it wasn't due to design it was due to circumstances (Rielly having played long shifts before the 2nd and 3rd PPs started).
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At no point in the game did Rielly looked gassed to me. The idea of him yanking himself off not one but two PPs due to being gassed seems to have originated entirely in your head. Let’s agree to disagree.
 
biotk said:
I think that Liljegren will eventually be a full-time 3rd pairing guy (my timeline has been for his to play at least some 3rd pairing games in 2020-21 and then probably a full-time 3rd pairing role after that - perhaps with the Leafs, perhaps not. I think that Liljegren has a tendency to look good to fans because he has some great tools. I question his toolbox. That doesn't make me happy. Liljegren has been my favourite prospect since he was 16. I still hope that he can put it all together.
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I read how u break Liljegren down, I respect your opinion and your take. U are being realisitic. Alot of people here cant seem to see Liljegren's confusion on the ice for the last 3 years.
 
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