Prospect Info: Timothy Liljegren

[Mr Hockey]

He's saying you're the plug and if you be "killen" plugs online errday than you have to kys plug fool. Shhhaaart.

I know exactly what he was saying ... lots of bitter posters here that have trouble seeing liljegren potential and take it as a personal insult if you disagree with them, I have a handful of them always shit disturbing, but they are easily handled and teased...and stop stirring the pot

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Leafs need a strong RD in the pipeline and for me , it doesnt appear to be Liljegren. The notion of 16 teams passing on him because of mono is false. Those 16 teams, the scouts, GM's, A-GM's, A-Coach, Head Coach. At least 200+ people on those 16 teams saw the player.

Second half of last year Keefe tried to change Liljegren into a simple defense first focused player. A great move and imo it was to save Liljegren's devolopment. Liljegren can only be a Zaitsev type. Dont handle pucks, win battles in the corners. U just hope when Liljegren is forced to make a decision it doesnt continue to burn the team when or if Liljegren ever makes it long term.

Dude ... I actually don't think you've ever watched Lilijegren if you think Liljegren can only be a Zaitsev type and should not handle the puck.

That's absurd, and it makes me so confused to the point where I think we're talking about two different players lol. Is there a different Lilijegren on the team that I don't know about?

 

[meefer]

Play the best players: Liljegren, Sandin, Kivihalme, whomever. If they succeed, great, if not, let them work on their weaknesses with the Marlies.

 

[Havoc]

If it is between Lil and Sandin, it will be Liljegren who makes it.

Sandin's contract is still eligible to slide. Liljegren's contract already slid twice. ELC kicks in at 20 years old.

We're in cap hell. Liljegren is the obvious choice unless Sandin can create a large gap that can't be ignored. In that case, have to forget the business aspect and give the spot to Sandin.

 

[biotk]

If it is between Lil and Sandin, it will be Liljegren who makes it.

Sandin's contract is still eligible to slide. Liljegren's contract already slid twice. ELC kicks in at 20 years old.

We're in cap hell. Liljegren is the obvious choice unless Sandin can create a large gap that can't be ignored. In that case, have to forget the business aspect and give the spot to Sandin.

Sandin has created a large gap that can't be ignored.

 

[garyturner3]

Sandin has created a large gap that can't be ignored.

I dunno if I agree with that. There's definitely a valid argument that Sandin may be the better player, but wasn't Liljegren the guy they were leaning on more heavily in the playoffs last year? If I was picking one guy for the roster this year regardless of which side he plays, I'd take Liljegren. His all around game is much better right now IMO.

 

[hector morrison]

Sandin has created a large gap that can't be ignored.

But do the Leafs need him? I mean,I t's easy to see why Buffalo(for example) let Dahlin play...cuz they needed him,but the Buds have Morgan and Tyson eating up major minutes(supposedly that's the plan) so not sure Sandin will be of much help as a 3rd pairing or even as an extra D man. I think if Tyson walks next year or is too expensive then Sandin plays at that time....One way might be to trade Ceci if he doesn't pan out by the trade deadline.

 

[biotk]

I dunno if I agree with that. There's definitely a valid argument that Sandin may be the better player, but wasn't Liljegren the guy they were leaning on more heavily in the playoffs last year? If I was picking one guy for the roster this year regardless of which side he plays, I'd take Liljegren. His all around game is much better right now IMO.

Liljegren was the guy who some people on here claim the Marlies were leaning on more heavily in the playoffs last year. I attended all the home games in rounds 2 and 3, and I disagree, but I honestly don't care for rehashing those arguments anymore because they are never going to go anywhere.

So this is my basic position: If Liljegren's all around game is much better right now, why is it that in his third training camp he is still (so far) the #6 D in split squad games (and that reflects training camp prior to the game as The Athletic article from Monday listed the D fighting for those final two spots as Sandin, Harpur, Marincin and Schmaltz (a close group) followed by Gravel and Holl (hoping to get on the level with that top four) and then Kivi and Liljegren as more distant hopefuls. Why was Sandin the #3 in the same split squad game despite playing on the right side? Why was all around Liljegren only on the second time the Leafs were shorthanded and because Harpur was in the box? With Sandin on the PP and Babs generally preferring to have players play one or the other why was it that Sandin was the regular on both PP (which was Rielly and Sandin) and PK (which was Ceci, Harpur, Rielly and Sandin), and Liljegren was a regular on neither? Why is it that people on here are seeing something very different from what the coaching staff are seeing?

 

[hector morrison]

I dunno if I agree with that. There's definitely a valid argument that Sandin may be the better player, but wasn't Liljegren the guy they were leaning on more heavily in the playoffs last year? If I was picking one guy for the roster this year regardless of which side he plays, I'd take Liljegren. His all around game is much better right now IMO.

I think Lily cuts the team this year,they already know he can play with Dermott...a bit risky ,but it is time...unless they go for the big man Harpur,or maybe keep both around.

 

[nobody]

Liljegren was the guy who some people on here claim the Marlies were leaning on more heavily in the playoffs last year. I attended all the home games in rounds 2 and 3, and I disagree, but I honestly don't care for rehashing those arguments anymore because they are never going to go anywhere.

So this is my basic position: If Liljegren's all around game is much better right now, why is it that in his third training camp he is still (so far) the #6 D in split squad games (and that reflects training camp prior to the game as The Athletic article from Monday listed the D fighting for those final two spots as Sandin, Harpur, Marincin and Schmaltz (a close group) followed by Gravel and Holl (hoping to get on the level with that top four) and then Kivi and Liljegren as more distant hopefuls. Why was Sandin the #3 in the same split squad game despite playing on the right side? Why was all around Liljegren only on the second time the Leafs were shorthanded and because Harpur was in the box? With Sandin on the PP and Babs generally preferring to have players play one or the other why was it that Sandin was the regular on both PP (which was Rielly and Sandin) and PK (which was Ceci, Harpur, Rielly and Sandin), and Liljegren was a regular on neither? Why is it that people on here are seeing something very different from what the coaching staff are seeing?

Sandin is a player that we can groom to step into our top 4 right out of the AHL once he matures and we are in a major cap crunch. We have a capable young puck mover in Dermott who will play LD and will be taking care of the 3rd pairing puck moving responsibilities. What we need is a stable RD that can play a safe stay at home game while still being a good passer and effective skater. We don't need a run and gun type like Sandin to pair with Dermott. I think the LD will go to Kivihelme most likely to start the season if not Harpur (who was absolutely Brutal yesterday) and the RD is a toss up between Lilly and Schmaltz. So far I loved what I saw from Schmaltz and I think he would be an excellent fit for the 3rd pairing RD role. Lilly might break camp but it's highly unlikely imo. I honestly wouldn't mind running with the following D-core this year and then groom Lilly - Sandin pairing for next year and bring them up as our 2nd/3rd pairing.

This season:

Rielly - Ceci (I think he's going to flourish and we'll actually retain him over Muzz and Barrie)
Muzzin - Barrie
Dermott - Schmaltz

Marlies top pair - Sandin - Liljegren

Next season:

Rielly - Ceci
Dermott (Sandin if Dermott doesn't develop into this role) - Lilly (if he's capable)/ Trade/ UFA
Sandin (Dermy) - Lilly/ Schmaltz

As much as I would like to keep Muzz and Barrie we simply can't afford to give a 30 year old a big money contract or an OFD like Barrie 8+ million. Yes it sucks losing Kadri for only Kerfoot at the end of the day but the way I see it, I think Mikheyev is going to be a big time keeper for us next season and we'd be much better off allocating Muzz/ Barrie cap on him and trying to trade off one of AJ/KK for a decent defenseman.

 

[lipstickjunkie]

At full strength:

Rielly-Ceci
Muzzin-Barrie
Dermott-Liljegren
Harpur

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

To the people pumping Sandin's tires, did you forget he looked like our best defence man at last years camp too? He needs more strength before he can do this for 82 games.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Really? I thought he looks really calm under pressure now and can handle the puck really well. He's become solid defensively. IMO he's improved so much in that regard from when he was drafted. Only thing I dislike is that he doesn't take as many risks anymore, which I'd like more to happen but oh well (So he can be a well-rounded D-man).

I agree. Keefe has really improved Liljegren’s defensive game. However, he also undeniably stunted Liljegren’s offensive development this past season, by cutting his o-zone time and PP opportunities last year to shift the focus to defence.

Keefe and all those involved with scouting Liljegren have always praised Liljegren’s talents in the offensive zone, as if he/they took them for granted. This year is a test of Keefe as much as it is of Liljegren. Can Keefe develop a talented offensive defenceman the right way? Or can he only force defence on a player at the cost of stunting offensive development?

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Leafs need a strong RD in the pipeline and for me , it doesnt appear to be Liljegren. The notion of 16 teams passing on him because of mono is false. Those 16 teams, the scouts, GM's, A-GM's, A-Coach, Head Coach. At least 200+ people on those 16 teams saw the player.

Second half of last year Keefe tried to change Liljegren into a simple defense first focused player. A great move and imo it was to save Liljegren's devolopment. Liljegren can only be a Zaitsev type. Dont handle pucks, win battles in the corners. U just hope when Liljegren is forced to make a decision it doesnt continue to burn the team when or if Liljegren ever makes it long term.

Only 14 teams passed on Liljegren. 28 teams passed on Sandin.

This is a very bad take.

 

[Popeye7735]

Question: if Sandins and / or Lilly play the whole season, do they need to be protected against the expansion draft when Seattle comes on board?

 

[Mr Hockey]

Leafs need a strong RD in the pipeline and for me , it doesnt appear to be Liljegren. The notion of 16 teams passing on him because of mono is false. Those 16 teams, the scouts, GM's, A-GM's, A-Coach, Head Coach. At least 200+ people on those 16 teams saw the player.

Second half of last year Keefe tried to change Liljegren into a simple defense first focused player. A great move and imo it was to save Liljegren's devolopment. Liljegren can only be a Zaitsev type. Dont handle pucks, win battles in the corners. U just hope when Liljegren is forced to make a decision it doesnt continue to burn the team when or if Liljegren ever makes it long term.

Keefe is not allowed to mess around with prospects, all prospects and development are under the control of the Leafs GM ... just sayin

 

[TheGoldenJet]

why was it that Sandin was the regular on both PP (which was Rielly and Sandin)

Why did Sandin get significantly more PP time than Rielly?

Is Sandin currently better than Rielly?

Or are Babs/Dubas feeding Sandin undeserved PP time to puff him up in a preseason game?

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Question: if Sandins and / or Lilly play the whole season, do they need to be protected against the expansion draft when Seattle comes on board?

Neither will need to be protected.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Question: if Sandins and / or Lilly play the whole season, do they need to be protected against the expansion draft when Seattle comes on board?

No. First and 2nd year pros are exempt. Liljegrens contract starts this year but if Seattle starts as planned in the 2021/22 season, then the expansion draft will be in 2021 and the seasons that count towards this will be this year and next (19/20 & 20/21).

The benefit to sending down Sandin is that his ELC slides another year to offset him and Lily and give us more time after we lock up Rielly long term to figure out the goalie situation.

He can also fill the defensive role for the Marlies that Liljegren did last year and allow Liljegren to take the natural next step in his development with the big club.

 

[Ciao]

I wonder how much input the coach has here vs the GM and scouts. If our amateur scouts, who by all accounts have done a fantastic job these last few years, think Lily is ready for the job, I’d trust their opinion over Babs.

I think Babcock's job is on the line if the Leafs don't make it out of the first round again.

If so, Dubas would give Babcock enough control over the roster to eliminate an excuse he's already drawn on, which is that he didn't have the right kind of players.

You need right-handed D, Mike? Fine. Here's four of them.

You need a big tough defenceman? Okay. Here's Ben Harpur.

You need more veteran NHL calibre forwards? Will six or seven do?

Can't stand Sparks? Gone!

What else do you need to win a playoff round? We'll go get it for you.

Just win, and don't tell us you didn't have the right kind of players if you don't.

It would be inconceivable that Dubas would force Liljegren and Sandin on an unwilling Babcock. If he sends them down and the Leafs get past the first round, that's a win for Dubas. If the Leafs don't win a playoff round then Dubas fires Shanahan and promotes his own coach, Keefe, who brings with him a ready made D pair of Sandin and Liljegren from the Marlies (who by the way then have yet another year playing under Keefe), and that's win too.

The only way Dubas could screw this up is by forcing Babcock's hand on roster selection. Otherwise, he can't lose.

 

[LeafChief]

 

[biotk]

Sandin is a player that we can groom to step into our top 4 right out of the AHL once he matures and we are in a major cap crunch.

If you think that Sandin is going to potentially be top-4 in a year why would you keep in the AHL instead of playing him in the NHL where he can actually show the team that he is ready for the top-4 before they have to make decisions on who to try to sign among Barrie, Muzzin and Ceci. Makes no sense. If you think that he won't be then the argument is good for keeping him down there.

We have a capable young puck mover in Dermott who will play LD and will be taking care of the 3rd pairing puck moving responsibilities. What we need is a stable RD that can play a safe stay at home game while still being a good passer and effective skater. We don't need a run and gun type like Sandin to pair with Dermott. I think the LD will go to Kivihelme most likely to start the season if not Harpur (who was absolutely Brutal yesterday) and the RD is a toss up between Lilly and Schmaltz.

Possibly the most bizarre thing I have ever seen in my life is the shift on this board to believing that Lilly is a safe, stay at home D. Neither is Schmaltz for that matter. Both are puck movers and similar to Dermott (except not as good). It wouldn't surprise me at all if Schmaltz made the team (my guess before camp was Harpur-Schmaltz with Schmaltz falling to #7 when Dermott comes back). The chances of Lily being in that spot instead are so close to zero I am not worrying about it. Liljegren is much improved defensively, of course, but that is from a pretty low starting point. Sandin is better defensively than Liljegren. He is better at winning one on one puck battles. He isn't big but he makes up for that with his brain. It's one of the reasons why Sandin was both asked to often play close to 30 minutes a game, and was capable of doing so. His hockey IQ allows him to not waste energy.

This season:

Rielly - Ceci (I think he's going to flourish and we'll actually retain him over Muzz and Barrie)
Muzzin - Barrie
Dermott - Schmaltz

Marlies top pair - Sandin - Liljegren

Here's the thing. I think that Liljegren needs to really not play with Sandin. Liljegren's offense needs to improve. But when I watch him it looks like he defers far too often to his partner when he is playing with someone like Rosen or Sandin. Shit, the year before he deferred too much offensively to his partner when his partner was Marincin. He needs confidence (Shilton said the same thing when watching the pre-skates). I would like to see Liljegren play with Gravel on the Marlies - a big stay at home D - and tell Liljegren to concentrate on generating some offense. To get more quality shots through to the net. I would prefer Sandin not be on the team in the hope that Liljegren gets PP time (because Hollowell and Duszak will be strong candidates for PP time as it is, and if Holl is back on the Marlies, he likely will too). Liljegren lost the PP last year because there were much better candidates (Rosen and Sandin) because he is not deceptive, not patient enough, and is not very good at getting pucks through to the net. He needs to work on his offense big time. If he is playing with Sandin he might get more points, but he will simply be Robin instead of Batman.

Next season:

Rielly - Ceci
Dermott (Sandin if Dermott doesn't develop into this role) - Lilly (if he's capable)/ Trade/ UFA
Sandin (Dermy) - Lilly/ Schmaltz

My hope is that the Leafs find that Sandin can play perfectly well on the right side as he did last game (Babs has had many, many LHD play on the right over the years). That would allow the team to hopefully re-sign Muzzin who brings a unique element to the lineup. I am fine with them re-signing Ceci if he plays well enough. In that case I would prefer:
Rielly - Ceci
Muzzin - Sandin
Dermott - Liljegren

 

[biotk]

Why did Sandin get significantly more PP time than Rielly?

Rielly played more PP time than Sandin.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Rielly played more PP time than Sandin.

I believe it went like this :

1:49 Rielly
1:25 Ceci
0:46 Sandin

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Rielly played more PP time than Sandin.

Meant Ceci, wrote Rielly.