Prospect Info: Timothy Liljegren

[Legion34]

The same way Hague and Fleury (and others) did this year - turned 20 before January 1.

But it was his 20 year old season then? Are people really trying to equate being a full year younger with turning 20 in the first what 5 games?

Come on

 

[biotk]

But it was his 20 year old season then? Are people really trying to equate being a full year younger with turning 20 in the first what 5 games?

Come on

The person I was responding to said it was his 21 year old season - A season that he started at 19 and finished 6 months before turning 21.

Now personally I think that it is dumb as hell to call things 20 year old seasons etc because most of them only do it when it benefits the player they want to fluff up. For instance Liljegren, Hague and Fleury were all taken in the same draft year. Oh, no no no no no. You can't compare Liljegren to them in their D+2s because Liljegren is 4 or 5 months younger than them and that is a super crazy amount of development time. You can only compare Lilegren in his D+2 to their D+1s when Liljegren is 7 or 8 months older than them. It's super pathetic.

 

[LeafChief]

I think we'll see Liljegren in some NHL games this year. I don't think it will be on opening night.

 

[deletethis]

Liljegren making the team as its 3rd pairing right sider would be a godsend for the 2019-20 team. And he'd have 3 full years at entry level compensation.

 

[saltming]

The person I was responding to said it was his 21 year old season - A season that he started at 19 and finished 6 months before turning 21.

Now personally I think that it is dumb as hell to call things 20 year old seasons etc because most of them only do it when it benefits the player they want to fluff up. For instance Liljegren, Hague and Fleury were all taken in the same draft year. Oh, no no no no no. You can't compare Liljegren to them in their D+2s because Liljegren is 4 or 5 months younger than them and that is a super crazy amount of development time. You can only compare Lilegren in his D+2 to their D+1s when Liljegren is 7 or 8 months older than them. It's super pathetic.

Wouldn't it also be fair to take into account that lil is adjusting to small ice and as such the changes in his skating stride, reading and managing small ice etc be considered a large part of his development? And if that then is true, would it not be reasonable to think there was great focus on those aspect of his development hence sacrificing other aspects?

 

[biotk]

Wouldn't it also be fair to take into account that lil is adjusting to small ice and as such the changes in his skating stride, reading and managing small ice etc be considered a large part of his development? And if that then is true, would it not be reasonable to think there was great focus on those aspect of his development hence sacrificing other aspects?

Sure - if you want to take those things into account that is fine.

 

[deletethis]

Wouldn't it also be fair to take into account that lil is adjusting to small ice and as such the changes in his skating stride, reading and managing small ice etc be considered a large part of his development? And if that then is true, would it not be reasonable to think there was great focus on those aspect of his development hence sacrificing other aspects?

Then why has Sandin flourished offensively?

 

[nobody]

Then why has Sandin flourished offensively?

Sandin played in the O and hadn't had anywhere near the injury history or the adversity that Lilly has had. Which is a positive for us because atleast he is on a smoother path to the NHL. I have no doubt timmy is going to be a top 4D in the NHL for us and pretty soon too. He has many things go against him so far in his young career though. He just needs to steady the ship and keep working away, which he has done admirably so far.

Another thing between Lilly and Sandin is that Sandin is very opportunistic offensive defender whereas Lilly used to be a notorious gambler. Pure skill wise I think Lilly has Sandin beat but he also used to have a ton more bad habits and a much less polished game than Sandin.

 

[Morgs]

People really need to watch other teams if they think Rielly is brutal in his own end.. You have an unrealistic expectation of what other D look like in their own zone.

In Toronto being Norris defensively is considered average or slightly above average.

Or you know, he was brutal defensively last season.

 

[Morgs]

Wow, if people are trashing Reilly defensively, wait until they get a long look at Barrie.

Lol Barrie was better defensively than Rielly was last season. But both those guys are essentially 1-way offensive defenseman, Rielly just looks good defensively while failing at doing it.

What's hilarious is the people bashing Gardiner defensively solely because of giveaways.

 

[X66]

View attachment 253973

Or you know, he was brutal defensively last season.

How much of this is related to partner?

There is no doubt in my mind that Hainsey was the worst D partner that any elite dman had to play with.

 

[Morgs]

How much of this is related to partner?

There is no doubt in my mind that Hainsey was the worst D partner that any elite dman had to play with.

RAPM takes into account D partners (among other things) and isolates their own impact.

It was by far Rielly's worst season based on defensive impact, so we can hope it's not the norm. But, it was also by far his best offensive impact season and it greatly outweighed how bad he was defensively. So really 100% of Leaf fans should be saying "so what he's brutal defensively". If he can keep up that offense and improve his defense, he's basically the unsheltered version of Brent Burns.

 

[Mr Hockey]

View attachment 253973

Or you know, he was brutal defensively last season.

put up Ron Hainsey chart here and let's gets some context, I will then be asking to see the Tavares, Marner,Hyman charts soon also

 

[Cotton]

View attachment 253973

Or you know, he was brutal defensively last season.

View attachment 253981 View attachment 253983

(Edit: Its showing Slavin is much worse defensively than Dougie f***ing Hamilton)

Canes fans will be shocked...

This stats should be printed out and offered as comical napkins at concession stands in arenas.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Liljegren making the team as its 3rd pairing right sider would be a godsend for the 2019-20 team. And he'd have 3 full years at entry level compensation.

Get him to his first RFA deal as soon as possible. Rather negotiate with a 22/23 year old Liljegren coming off bottom pairing minutes than a 24 year old with a year of top-4 play under his belt.

 

[Morgs]

put up Ron Hainsey chart here and let's gets some context, I will then be asking to see the Tavares, Marner,Hyman charts soon also

Not gonna post 100 charts. Go to Evolving-Hockey.com if you want to look for yourself. If not:

Hainsey is below average in basically everything. But again, it's isolated impact.

Hyman is plus defensively, where as Marner and Tavares are in what I consider the "bad" range. Matthews is in the "very bad" range. Nylander is "above average". Johnsson/Kapanen are "below average". Gardiner/Dermott/Muzzin are all "good".

 

[BertCorbeau]

Not a thread about Rielly

 

[Morgs]

View attachment 253981 View attachment 253983

(Edit: Its showing Slavin is much worse defensively than Dougie ****ing Hamilton)

Canes fans will be shocked...

This stats should be printed out and offered as comical napkins at concession stands in arenas.

The sooner you realize good defense is about preventing shots/chances, and not solely about blocking shots with your face, the sooner you'll understand why your post is silly.

Blocking shots is like killing a rat. It's fantastic if you killed (blocked) one, but if you're constantly killing (blocking) them you have a bigger issue.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Not gonna post 100 charts. Go to Evolving-Hockey.com if you want to look for yourself. If not:

Hainsey is below average in basically everything. But again, it's isolated impact.

Hyman is plus defensively, where as Marner and Tavares are in what I consider the "bad" range. Matthews is in the "very bad" range. Nylander is "above average". Johnsson/Kapanen are "below average". Gardiner/Dermott/Muzzin are all "good".

Go post your chart in a Rielly thread

 

[4thline]

The person I was responding to said it was his 21 year old season - A season that he started at 19 and finished 6 months before turning 21.

Now personally I think that it is dumb as hell to call things 20 year old seasons etc because most of them only do it when it benefits the player they want to fluff up. For instance Liljegren, Hague and Fleury were all taken in the same draft year. Oh, no no no no no. You can't compare Liljegren to them in their D+2s because Liljegren is 4 or 5 months younger than them and that is a super crazy amount of development time. You can only compare Lilegren in his D+2 to their D+1s when Liljegren is 7 or 8 months older than them. It's super pathetic.

Liljegren being european complicates things, but for Canadians that go the CHL route and aren't 1st overall quality/ NHL ready D+1 controlling for late birthdays is the farthest thing from pathetic, it's necessary.

Hockey is played in seasons, not months since birth. Being born in an earlier year results in an extra year at a given level in most development systems.

Comparing player x vs player y is a super shitty way of evaluating a given prospect anyway. Liljegren will be a U21 AHL player next year, compare him against that cohort.

 

[biotk]

Liljegren being european complicates things, but for Canadians that go the CHL route and aren't 1st overall quality/ NHL ready D+1 controlling for late birthdays is the farthest thing from pathetic, it's necessary.

Hockey is played in seasons, not months since birth. Being born in an earlier year results in an extra year at a given level in most development systems.

Comparing player x vs player y is a super ****ty way of evaluating a given prospect anyway. Liljegren will be a U21 AHL player next year, compare him against that cohort.

If people think that Liljegren is incapable of hacking it against players from his own draft year they should just admit that instead of pretending that players who are 4 or 5 months older than him are a year older.

 

[DarkKnight]

Lol Barrie was better defensively than Rielly was last season. But both those guys are essentially 1-way offensive defenseman, Rielly just looks good defensively while failing at doing it.

What's hilarious is the people bashing Gardiner defensively solely because of giveaways.

K.

 

[4thline]

If people think that Liljegren is incapable of hacking it against players from his own draft year they should just admit that instead of pretending that players who are 4 or 5 months older than him are a year older.

They're not a year older, they're in a different cohort.

Draft year has relevance on one day of their careers. After that there is no point comparing, it's not an efficient or effective way of projecting

 

[biotk]

They're not a year older, they're in a different cohort.

Draft year has relevance on one day of their careers. After that there is no point comparing, it's not an efficient or effective way of projecting

Whatever. I am sorry that the only way you can make the player you are trying to fluff up look good is to ensure that he is older than everyone he is compared with.

 

[LeafChief]

Hot takes galore!