Prospect Info: Timothy Liljegren

[Havoc]

In what world does Lilly not start in the minors. He still has not proven anything. He's nowhere near NHL ready. He regressed in points.

In fairness, his defensive game improved in the playoffs, but that's not saying much. I think Leaf fans are hyping this guy a little too much. I personally don't think he'll ever be a top 4 but we'll see.

Regressed in points but had an improved defensive game.

Doesn't this help someone win the sixth defensive spot? I don't think he's expected to come in here and be Kaberle right away. Plus, they will overlook a points decrease if there was progress in his defensive game. They'll just assume it was because he wanted to focus on defense so wasn't playing his usual offensive game or taking the same risks.

All we need is a 20 point Vince Dunn like season from a D prospect and it's a huge win. As Liljegren develops he will learn how to integrate his offensive abilities with his improved defense.

 

[Rokker]

I think he could come in and win a bottom pairing spot quite easily. Whether or not that's best for his development remains to be seen, but I could see him getting 8 or 9 games at the very least.

Is Schmaltz the better player?

Muzzin Barrie
Rielly Ceci
Dermott Liljegren

If Ceci holds up. Big if though

 

[saltming]

I watched last season Salt, if Babcock didn't want them to make that pass all the time he didn't communicate it very well because our guys love it, a lot

We don't do tic tac toe, we do woo hoo 150 footer coming right up baby

I hate our system and want it changed but if we stick with our current one I don't think Harpurs game fits, we need guys with serious passing chops to pull that off

Agreed, though every pair will have a player with those chops

 

[Einzakin]

Regressed in points but had an improved defensive game.

Doesn't this help someone win the sixth defensive spot? I don't think he's expected to come in here and be Kaberle right away. Plus, they will overlook a points decrease if there was progress in his defensive game. They'll just assume it was because he wanted to focus on defense so wasn't playing his usual offensive game or taking the same risks.

All we need is a 20 point Vince Dunn like season from a D prospect and it's a huge win. As Liljegren develops he will learn how to integrate his offensive abilities with his improved defense.

Vince Dunn put up 45 points in his first season in the AHL. It's not even a close comparable. Even the WORST offensive performers in the NHL put up big numbers in the AHL.

It's honestly just a Leaf bias thing I'm pretty sure. People get offended and attack the few of us who criticize Timmy. Truth is, he isn't where the Leafs hoped he would be, and that's just obvious.

 

[Prominence]

Vince Dunn put up 45 points in his first season in the AHL. It's not even a close comparable. Even the WORST offensive performers in the NHL put up big numbers in the AHL.

It's honestly just a Leaf bias thing I'm pretty sure. People get offended and attack the few of us who criticize Timmy. Truth is, he isn't where the Leafs hoped he would be, and that's just obvious.

Not arguing that liljegren is better, but dunn was 19.5 years old (ohl late birthday) when he started in the ahl. Liljegren was 19 and did not get prime pp time (where d-men get most of their points).

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Vince Dunn put up 45 points in his first season in the AHL. It's not even a close comparable. Even the WORST offensive performers in the NHL put up big numbers in the AHL.

It's honestly just a Leaf bias thing I'm pretty sure. People get offended and attack the few of us who criticize Timmy. Truth is, he isn't where the Leafs hoped he would be, and that's just obvious.

Liljegren had the best ppg ever for an 18 year old defensemen in the AHL until Sandin smashed that record this year, and while his 19 year old season wasn't as impressive offensively (still 16th all time for 19 year olds) because he rarely played on the PP due to Rosen and Sandin being there most of the year, he became a top pair shutdown defensemen in the AHL as a teenager taking the tough matchups and heavy PK minutes.

Vince Dunn had 23 even strength points in his rookie (age 20 season in the AHL) year for 0.31PPG, a year younger, Liljegren had 0.21PPG at even strength.

You don't think Liljegren could make up 7 points if he returned to the AHL this year while still being much better defensively than Dunn was at 20 years old? I think he easily could/would if he goes back.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Liljegren had the best ppg ever for an 18 year old defensemen in the AHL until Sandin smashed that record this year, and while his 19 year old season wasn't as impressive offensively (still 16th all time for 19 year olds) because he rarely played on the PP due to Rosen and Sandin being there most of the year, he became a top pair shutdown defensemen in the AHL as a teenager taking the tough matchups and heavy PK minutes.

Vince Dunn had 23 even strength points in his rookie (age 20 season in the AHL) year for 0.31PPG, a year younger, Liljegren had 0.21PPG at even strength.

You don't think Liljegren could make up 7 points if he returned to the AHL this year while still being much better defensively than Dunn was at 20 years old? I think he easily could/would if he goes back.

Bolded the important parts. People treat Liljegren as they would any AHL rookie and sophomore, forgetting that he's two years younger than almost any of them.

Furthermore, even if he was not Dunn offensively, he's also a surefire top 4 d-man with his strength offensively and in transition. He's not the bar to become an effective NHL d-man.

 

[DarkKnight]

What do people think is a better year for development post draft year, playing in the AHL or another year of Junior?

 

[Nithoniniel]

Personally I like the idea of Lily starting in the minors, getting into a groove and feeling good about his game before coming to the NHL.

Worked well for Dermott.

Yeah. Besides, we don't want a player who can just play in the NHL. We want someone who have the confidence and ability to translate his whole game. If Liljegren comes up and doesn't feel comfortable to play an elusive puck movement game, or to kill space and play guys physically on the rush, we have failed.

 

[Nithoniniel]

What do people think is a better year for development post draft year, playing in the AHL or another year of Junior?

I think it depends on what you want to develop. If you want them to work on skill and creativity, for example, I'd send them to CHL. If they were good but needed substantial work on defense and system play, as another example, I'd definitely want them in AHL.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Actually Dermott-Liljegren could be a very strong third pairing once Dermott comes back healthy .. Start Liljegren in the minors though. Recall him when Dermott is healthy.

 

[Its not your fault]

In what world does Lilly not start in the minors. He still has not proven anything. He's nowhere near NHL ready. He regressed in points.

In fairness, his defensive game improved in the playoffs, but that's not saying much. I think Leaf fans are hyping this guy a little too much. I personally don't think he'll ever be a top 4 but we'll see.

Yup huge regression and the audacity of him scoring 2 more goals in one less game. Sucks to he had one more assist in the playoffs with 7 less games I was like how dare he have a better points per game this year playoffs and regular season combined then last year. That said his game has Progressed every year he still has 2, 3 more years before you can say bust.

 

[Einzakin]

Yup huge regression and the audacity of him scoring 2 more goals in one less game. Sucks to he had one more assist in the playoffs with 7 less games I was like how dare he have a better points per game this year playoffs and regular season combined then last year. That said his game has Progressed every year he still has 2, 3 more years before you can say bust.

Try not to take it personal. Just saying he's not NHL ready yet. A top prospect in their 2nd AHL year should start putting up big numbers IMO. Sorry if I upset you.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Try not to take it personal. Just saying he's not NHL ready yet. A top prospect in their 2nd AHL year should start putting up big numbers IMO. Sorry if I upset you.

/
???? What???? Year after year almost all of the top numbers in the AHL are done by journeymen AHLers, never to be NHLers.

 

[biotk]

What do people think is a better year for development post draft year, playing in the AHL or another year of Junior?

Sandin had played well in the OHL and was ready for the challenge. Liljegren, as Dubas recently stated, was not as ready for the AHL. If London could have drafted him I am sure that the Leafs would have sent him to the OHL.

 

[kb]

Try not to take it personal. Just saying he's not NHL ready yet. A top prospect in their 2nd AHL year should start putting up big numbers IMO. Sorry if I upset you.

I'd agree if they were coming out of junior. But he could have played junior last year. So it a completely different timeline, especially since he hasn't had the game action that most have had owing to injuries.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Vince Dunn put up 45 points in his first season in the AHL. It's not even a close comparable. Even the WORST offensive performers in the NHL put up big numbers in the AHL.

It's honestly just a Leaf bias thing I'm pretty sure. People get offended and attack the few of us who criticize Timmy. Truth is, he isn't where the Leafs hoped he would be, and that's just obvious.

Your cherry picked example of Vince Dunn was in his 21 year old season when putting up 45 points over a full AHL season, with a full season of top unit PP time to boot. That was his first season after his final year of WJC eligibility.

That is this upcoming season for Liljegren. If given the same amount of powerplay time, chances are Liljegren would surprise you with his AHL totals this upcoming year as well.

 

[biotk]

Your cherry picked example of Vince Dunn was in his 21 year old season when putting up 45 points over a full AHL season

His 21 year old season started when the player was 19 and ended 6 months before he turns 21? Sweet.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

His 21 year old season started when the player was 19 and ended 6 months before he turns 21? Sweet.

You’re right Dunn was 20 for that season, I was off by a year. His 21 year old season he played in just 2 AHL games. Still it’s a cherry picked stat off a random cherry picked prospect who was not even a first rounder.

 

[Legion34]

His 21 year old season started when the player was 19 and ended 6 months before he turns 21? Sweet.

How could he play in the ahl before 20?

 

[LeafChief]

Try not to take it personal. Just saying he's not NHL ready yet. A top prospect in their 2nd AHL year should start putting up big numbers IMO. Sorry if I upset you.

You're going to want to look into those numbers historically.

Actually you won't.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Try not to take it personal. Just saying he's not NHL ready yet. A top prospect in their 2nd AHL year should start putting up big numbers IMO. Sorry if I upset you.

19 year olds don't even play in the AHL, generally. If Liljegren was Canadian he would have still been in junior last year.

So if you expect big numbers in a second NHL season, you'd have to wait another 2 seasons to hold Liljegren to that same standard as basically everyone else.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I will never understand why some people try for so hard and so long to put down a good prospect on a team they cheer for.

Seems like the same 2 or 3 guys have been crapping on him all summer and what a waste of time that is.

All the numbers and metrics point to him at least being a capable 2nd pair guy some day given his play as a teenager, and it remains to be seen if he can reach that

If he doesn't then so be it, but again I will never understand the need to make a prospect on the team you cheer for look worse in peoples eyes unless they're trying to compare them to something absurd like a Gretzky or Orr (Also known as Pierre McGuire syndrome).

 

[biotk]

How could he play in the ahl before 20?

The same way Hague and Fleury (and others) did this year - turned 20 before January 1.

 

[Mr Hockey]

I will never understand why some people try for so hard and so long to put down a good prospect on a team they cheer for.

Seems like the same 2 or 3 guys have been crapping on him all summer and what a waste of time that is.

All the numbers and metrics point to him at least being a capable 2nd pair guy some day given his play as a teenager, and it remains to be seen if he can reach that

If he doesn't then so be it, but again I will never understand the need to make a prospect on the team you cheer for look worse in peoples eyes unless they're trying to compare them to something absurd like a Gretzky or Orr (Also known as Pierre McGuire syndrome).

guys like you need to understand that a lot of people are here to share opinions on players/prospects/team/etc ... just try and counter differing opinions, no need to question a persons loyalty to the team, it's weak ...