Tribute Timothy Liljegren part 2

[Nylanderthal]

I doubt you have inside info

Of course I don’t, I never suggested I did. I’m just going off of what scribes who were actually connected to the dealings said. Neither Siegel or mirtle mentioned that liljegren was ever part of the deal. I remember when the deal was made dregs came out spewing his nonsense and everyone else (those connected) said that wasn’t the case at all. Maybe liljegren was on the table straight up, but he certainly wasn’t offered in the same package LA took implying that they chose Durzi over him.

 

[29Potvin]

when we actually win rounds and make a deep run then I can get behind saying it's a "steal" / "win". Considering we lost Muzzin for two playoff series, I think it's been an even deal. I don't think anyone can really classify it as a win for either side. We have no idea what those 3 players for the Kings can become, the kids have an influx of talent coming up that team is going to be good again in a few years. For the leafs we haven't had a full series with Muzzin, so it's hard to determine the full value or impact he potentially can have.

So over the last 3/4 years you would rather have the magic beans over Muzzin?

 

[francis246]

So over the last 3/4 years you would rather have the magic beans over Muzzin?

I never said that, but we haven’t reaped any real bonafide benefits from acquiring Muzzin. It’s been the same result, so it’s hard to determine if acquiring him is a complete win and he’s been injured a lot. I think Kyle would make that trade over and over again. But we have not gotten all we really can out of Muzzin which is unfortunate

 

[mapleleaf979]

Of course I don’t, I never suggested I did. I’m just going off of what scribes who were actually connected to the dealings said. Neither Siegel or mirtle mentioned that liljegren was ever part of the deal. I remember when the deal was made dregs came out spewing his nonsense and everyone else (those connected) said that wasn’t the case at all. Maybe liljegren was on the table straight up, but he certainly wasn’t offered in the same package LA took implying that they chose Durzi over him.

Make up your mind?

 

[Nylanderthal]

Make up your mind?

Make up my mind what? Did you bother reading what I wrote in between the sections you bolded? I’m going off of what credible sources reported.

 

[ACC1224]

So over the last 3/4 years you would rather have the magic beans over Muzzin?

Do you feel LA is unhappy with the return?

 

[Nylanderthal]

Do you feel LA is unhappy with the return?

I think it’s pretty safe to assume the Kings are happy with Durzi Bjornfort & Grundstrom considering their timeline. I don’t think Muzz makes the kind of impact that changes them from a bottom team these last few seasons.
They might like him now in the lineup considering they’re in a playoff spot as of today.

 

[Legion34]

Do you feel LA is unhappy with the return?

I mean it doesn’t have to be one over the other.

Durzi has had a good stretch.
Grunny is 24 and has not been what we hoped for

Bjornfoot has good potential…..

the odds of any of them being as good as muzzin for the first 3 years is really unlikely. But they wanted young players and got ones that are contributing

 

[ACC1224]

I mean it doesn’t have to be one over the other.

Durzi has had a good stretch.
Grunny is 24 and has not been what we hoped for

Bjornfoot has good potential…..

the odds of any of them being as good as muzzin for the first 3 years is really unlikely. But they wanted young players and got ones that are contributing

Exactly.

 

[wingman75]

Anyone listen to Kipper & Bourne yesterday. They were ripping Timmy to shreds. Happy with the goal and offensive abilities, but roasting him on his defensive game. Not sure I could argue with anything they were saying. He has shown flashes at being good at both ends of the ice, so hopefully he continues to grow that part of his game. I worry about his mobility defensively on the rush though (as they guys noted in the show).

There is clearly potential there.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Are your sons in their mid-40s?

No mid 20s

 

[stickty111]

Anyone listen to Kipper & Bourne yesterday. They were ripping Timmy to shreds. Happy with the goal and offensive abilities, but roasting him on his defensive game. Not sure I could argue with anything they were saying. He has shown flashes at being good at both ends of the ice, so hopefully he continues to grow that part of his game. I worry about his mobility defensively on the rush though (as they guys noted in the show).

There is clearly potential there.

Bourne was waiting for him to have a bad game and to rip him. Wouldn't say much good comments towards him when he had his great games which he's had a lot so far.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Anyone listen to Kipper & Bourne yesterday. They were ripping Timmy to shreds. Happy with the goal and offensive abilities, but roasting him on his defensive game. Not sure I could argue with anything they were saying. He has shown flashes at being good at both ends of the ice, so hopefully he continues to grow that part of his game. I worry about his mobility defensively on the rush though (as they guys noted in the show). These are the same bs that were screaming for the Leafs to trade Nylander before he became the player he is now.

There is clearly potential there.

Kipper and Bourne are hardly guys you should trust when it comes to evaluating players. I wonder where Bourne has been whenever Liljegren's played a good game ( which he's done more often than not so far).

 

[francis246]

Kipper and Bourne are hardly guys you should trust when it comes to evaluating players. I wonder where Bourne has been whenever Liljegren's played a good game ( which he's done more often than not so far).

this is what pisses me off most about HF Boards. You guys have to try and discredit every single media pundit who shares their opinion. It’s criticism, they make some good points. Give it a rest. Who are you to say anything? These guys have played in the NHL, I think it’s the STUPIDEST line, “you can’t trust them”, I’m sorry how many seasons in the NHL have you played? These guys have played the game (at least kipper has in this case) so their insight is valuable they are able to pick up on things about players that we cannot simply because they have actually been on the ice in that position or up against players in those positions.

You don’t agree with it, fine but Jesus Christ, y’all don’t need to try and call every media person an idiot. They have played the game at the highest level, you have not. I do agree sometimes they focus on the negatives a lot more often than positives and they should praise players a lot more. But it’s how sports work we talk about things more when they are going wrong or when players make mistakes.

 

[Joe n]

this is what pisses me off most about HF Boards. You guys have to try and discredit every single media pundit who shares their opinion. It’s criticism, they make some good points. Give it a rest. Who are you to say anything? These guys have played in the NHL, I think it’s the STUPIDEST line, “you can’t trust them”, I’m sorry how many seasons in the NHL have you played? These guys have played the game (at least kipper has in this case) so their insight is valuable they are able to pick up on things about players that we cannot simply because they have actually been on the ice in that position or up against players in those positions.

You don’t agree with it, fine but Jesus Christ, y’all don’t need to try and call every media person an idiot. They have played the game at the highest level, you have not. I do agree sometimes they focus on the negatives a lot more often than positives and they should praise players a lot more. But it’s how sports work we talk about things more when they are going wrong or when players make mistakes.

S
Someone is but hurt. They are only saying that they never talk about him when he has a good game. Or are you trying to argue he hasn't had any good games.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

I mean it doesn’t have to be one over the other.

Durzi has had a good stretch.
Grunny is 24 and has not been what we hoped for

Bjornfoot has good potential…..

the odds of any of them being as good as muzzin for the first 3 years is really unlikely. But they wanted young players and got ones that are contributing

Grundstrom is exactly what the Leafs need. Not more elite skill, but someone with sandpaper who can still contribute offensively. Like Bunting

 

[francis246]

S
Someone is but hurt. They are only saying that they never talk about him when he has a good game. Or are you trying to argue he hasn't had any good games.

im just arguing that criticism of players isn’t a slight or personal

 

[leafan11]

this is what pisses me off most about HF Boards. You guys have to try and discredit every single media pundit who shares their opinion. It’s criticism, they make some good points. Give it a rest. Who are you to say anything? These guys have played in the NHL, I think it’s the STUPIDEST line, “you can’t trust them”, I’m sorry how many seasons in the NHL have you played? These guys have played the game (at least kipper has in this case) so their insight is valuable they are able to pick up on things about players that we cannot simply because they have actually been on the ice in that position or up against players in those positions.

You don’t agree with it, fine but Jesus Christ, y’all don’t need to try and call every media person an idiot. They have played the game at the highest level, you have not. I do agree sometimes they focus on the negatives a lot more often than positives and they should praise players a lot more. But it’s how sports work we talk about things more when they are going wrong or when players make mistakes.

Their takes on Lilly have been garbage. They talk about him as if he’s a 5 year NHL veteran with no room for growth. It’s his rookie year of course he’s going to make mistakes. Does Bourne not realize that the Leafs need players on entry level contracts because of their cap situation.

 

[nobody]

Grundstrom is exactly what the Leafs need. Not more elite skill, but someone with sandpaper who can still contribute offensively. Like Bunting

Well lucky for us and unlucky for the Kings, he hasn't really done much of either. The guy that we really miss from the Kings roster right now is Trevor Moore. But Dubas and crew promised him that he'd be given an opportunity to flourish and it wasn't going to be with us with our logjam at forward.

Again, Durzi is a great prospect and offensive D-man. But his defense is very questionable at best. Bjornfot is looking like he'll be a 2nd pairing D at best but most likely settle in as a 3rd pairing/ depth guy. Certainly a great haul they've gotten for Muzzin who has helped stabilize our D.

As for Lilly, he's been fine. He's had his ups and downs as a pro but that's to be expected when you have so much inconsistency in playing time and when you do play, you get a god-awful d-partner in Muzzin right now (clearly playing hurt atm). Sandin - Lilly on the 3rd pair is one of the best (and sheltered) D pairing in the entire league this year. If the Kings really wanted to pull out quality over quantity they would've easily been able to squeeze our Sandin or a Lilly. But they were rebuilding and were smart enough to take draft picks instead. They've built a hell of a stable of prospects right now. None of them are really game-breaking types though.

 

[Knies iT]

Grundstrom is exactly what the Leafs need. Not more elite skill, but someone with sandpaper who can still contribute offensively. Like Bunting

Except he doesn't play like that? Grundstrom's biggest problem has always been understanding his role. He doesn't play physical consistently enough so this reads like someone who hasn't even watched him play.

 

[Maplebeasts]

this is what pisses me off most about HF Boards. You guys have to try and discredit every single media pundit who shares their opinion. It’s criticism, they make some good points. Give it a rest. Who are you to say anything? These guys have played in the NHL, I think it’s the STUPIDEST line, “you can’t trust them”, I’m sorry how many seasons in the NHL have you played? These guys have played the game (at least kipper has in this case) so their insight is valuable they are able to pick up on things about players that we cannot simply because they have actually been on the ice in that position or up against players in those positions.

You don’t agree with it, fine but Jesus Christ, y’all don’t need to try and call every media person an idiot. They have played the game at the highest level, you have not. I do agree sometimes they focus on the negatives a lot more often than positives and they should praise players a lot more. But it’s how sports work we talk about things more when they are going wrong or when players make mistakes.

Who cares if they've played before? I'm not going to suck up to guys who disagree with me because they played in the NHL before. As a fan who watches a lot of hockey I am perfectly capable of saying that I think Kipper and Bourne are wrong. Being a former player has little to do with your success in anything else hockey related. Just look at Gretzky for example, he's the best player there ever was and likely ever will be but he was a terrible coach.

 

[francis246]

Their takes on Lilly have been garbage. They talk about him as if he’s a 5 year NHL veteran with no room for growth. It’s his rookie year of course he’s going to make mistakes. Does Bourne not realize that the Leafs need players on entry level contracts because of their cap situation.

for sure, sometimes I think people/media including myself are a bit hard on Liljegren. But I do think in this case, they were just pointing out he's got some warts. I have to go back and listen to the clip. But it's like no one can say anything about Leafs prospects, no rumour is true. It's like give me a break, if I'm inclined to believe anything it's not gonna be from anyone on HF boards who doesn't have a clue. At least these guys have played and I believe Bourne has coached in the AHL as well, so some of the things they notice might actually be valid.

 

[francis246]

Who cares if they've played before? I'm not going to suck up to guys who disagree with me because they played in the NHL before. As a fan who watches a lot of hockey I am perfectly capable of saying that I think Kipper and Bourne are wrong. Being a former player has little to do with your success in anything else hockey related. Just look at Gretzky for example, he's the best player there ever was and likely ever will be but he was a terrible coach.

gretzky was a terrible coach not because he wasn't knowledgeable or couldn't evaluate talent. It was because being an exceptional player, you can see things that normal players cannot. That was gretzky's problem. His expectations were way too high because he thinks the game at a level that the average player cannot and he would lose his shit on the bench on a nightly basis. About 85% of coaching, especially at the level is how you motivate and prepare your athletes to play, you're not really teaching these guys things they don't already know.

No one is saying you need to kiss up to them, but their points were valid. Timothy (like a lot of young defenseman) makes mistakes and if you're going to be a consistent top 4 d that is relied upon, he needs to clean those mistakes up. Thats how you elevate yourself from bottom pairing to a top 2, top 4 d. So I agree with them. Timothy has all the tools, it'll be up to him to put it together and find that confidence to carry it through for a sustained period of time.

 

[Thornbury]

Anyone listen to Kipper & Bourne yesterday. They were ripping Timmy to shreds. Happy with the goal and offensive abilities, but roasting him on his defensive game. Not sure I could argue with anything they were saying. He has shown flashes at being good at both ends of the ice, so hopefully he continues to grow that part of his game. I worry about his mobility defensively on the rush though (as they guys noted in the show).

There is clearly potential there.

How many NHL games has Lilligren had - not a lot. To suggest he has proven to not be an NHL caliber defenceman at this point is absurd.

 

[Nylanderthal]

this is what pisses me off most about HF Boards. You guys have to try and discredit every single media pundit who shares their opinion. It’s criticism, they make some good points. Give it a rest. Who are you to say anything? These guys have played in the NHL, I think it’s the STUPIDEST line, “you can’t trust them”, I’m sorry how many seasons in the NHL have you played? These guys have played the game (at least kipper has in this case) so their insight is valuable they are able to pick up on things about players that we cannot simply because they have actually been on the ice in that position or up against players in those positions.

You don’t agree with it, fine but Jesus Christ, y’all don’t need to try and call every media person an idiot. They have played the game at the highest level, you have not. I do agree sometimes they focus on the negatives a lot more often than positives and they should praise players a lot more. But it’s how sports work we talk about things more when they are going wrong or when players make mistakes.

I don’t think everyone in the media is an idiot. Plenty of intelligent people out there. CJ, Masters, MJ, Ferraro, Siegel, Shilton, poulin isn’t awful that’s just local people off the top of my head. Throughout the league there are countless good analysts and broadcasters, just as there are awful ones. Kypper is awful. Bourne is a never been.