Tribute Timothy Liljegren Discussion Thread

[zeke]

He's a 5/6 on any team, he's not good, he's serviceable, he is barely replacement level. Every team as a few Dermotts. "Good" d-men don't max out ATOI at 13 minutes a night

They do when they play behind one of the best top-4s in hockey.

 

[IPS]

They do when they play behind one of the best top-4s in hockey.

Actually teams with better top-4s than the Leafs play their 5/6 D for a lot more minutes than Dermott gets. Dermott might actually play the lowest minutes of any regular bottom pair D in the league.

 

[zeke]

Actually teams with better top-4s than the Leafs play their 5/6 D for a lot more minutes than Dermott gets. Dermott might actually play the lowest minutes of any regular bottom pair D in the league.

There weren't really many teams with a better top 4 than the leafs.

And none of them missed more than 3gms, either.

 

[Menzinger]

I think he's played fairly well, but I'm not so sure there would be a rush to get him in the lineup if he was a 5th round pick or free agency signing.

It's not the end of the world if he doesn't start on the roster. If he really is 100% ready than he won't be with the Marlies for long

 

[IPS]

There weren't really many teams with a better top 4 than the leafs.

View attachment 469183

And none of them missed more than 3gms, either.

Ok I'll clarify then

No other team in the league plays their 5/6 D for as little minutes as the Leafs play Dermott

NHL Stats

There Dermott is - 278th in TOI last season. Look at all the names surrounding him - all injury replacement / AHL D. Let alone any other good team's bottom pair D being that low on the list.

 

[supermann_98]

I think its a JOKE that they are choosing sandin over both dermott/lily

Dubas+Keefe talent evaluation = JOKE

Their talent evaluation is great, Sandin is definitely talented. The problem is we don't need a riverboat gambler on defense, but Keefe obviously thinks our team can outscore any bad defensive play or turnovers

We'll see soon enough once we play a good team, not this Montreal and Ottawa crap shows

 

[stickty111]

Their talent evaluation is great, Sandin is definitely talented. The problem is we don't need a riverboat gambler on defense, but Keefe obviously thinks our team can outscore any bad defensive play or turnovers

We'll see soon enough once we play a good team, not this Montreal and Ottawa crap shows

I hope they will actually scratch Sandin if he struggles. If they do, I'll take back the biased comments but we'll see. The problem isn't bias. Every GM will have biases towards their players they got. It's normal but problem becomes if you don't let performance dictate your decisions.

 

[Maplebeasts]

The number of people trashing Sandin in defence of Liljegren is an indication that this isn't about Lilly's ability as a player, its about a tribal attachment to the idea that Lilly should be a player. I get it, this thread is populated by his supporters and none of them want to have their world view challenged by facts like "Liljegren couldn't beat out Ben Hutton for playing time last year" or "He wasn't good enough to earn a job" Instead we get weird excuses and explanations for his failures and shortcomings like Keefe has something personal against him or his bonus structure kept him off the team. Come on now, just admit that Liljegren is weak and feeble in his own end and the Leafs don't need that on their third pairing. This guy is going to be a star this year for the Marlies again, because that's what he is: a minor league player. He looks great when there aren't top level NHL forwards around to make him look bad.

What excuses? He has actually been better than any of his competition in camp.

 

[stickty111]

What excuses? He has actually been better than any of his competition in camp.

Don't bother

 

[Legion34]

What excuses? He has actually been better than any of his competition in camp.

honestly if we are ranking d just based on this camp….,,

muzz
Brodie
Lilly
Rielly
Sandin
Heck maybe even kral
Dermott mennel?

obviously there are different levels of give a damn but that’s probably how I would rate it.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Liljegren is the best bottom pair RD of the three right now. Sandin and Dermott have been good enough to alternate that third pair LD, none of the two deserve the spot outright.

Keefe doesn't have any good will after those playoffs. All his decisions should be questioned.

 

[FiveHoleo]

So no Liljegren tonight? I thought this was the dress rehearsal for the regular season. Very strange happenings indeed. This guy was supposed to revolutionize the way the game is played from the 3rd pair, and that's tough to do from the press box for the fifth season in a row. Win a job kid, because nobody is going to give it to you.

 

[Bluelines]

They do when they play behind one of the best top-4s in hockey.

With comments like that sometimes wonder if you actually watch hockey.

Heck I like Holl but there are probably 125 better or equal d-men in the league right now, if Dermott can't steal a spot from Holl, that means that Dermott is not playing on the bottom pairing because the 4 in front of him are so good but he's playing on the bottom 2 because he can't play well enough to justify a top 4 spot.

Holl is making 2 mil per and is 29, Dermott is making 1.5 per and is 24, don't you think if Dermott was playing well enough to get more minutes, they would trade Holl in a heart beat to take advantage of younger and cheaper better player?

 

[Holls Blackmail]

#FreeLily

 

[Griffin76]

So no Liljegren tonight? I thought this was the dress rehearsal for the regular season. Very strange happenings indeed. This guy was supposed to revolutionize the way the game is played from the 3rd pair, and that's tough to do from the press box for the fifth season in a row. Win a job kid, because nobody is going to give it to you.

You mean like they've given it to Sandin?

 

[notbias]

Agreed, longshot prospects like Duszak and Hollowell got preseason PP time, Liljegren got none despite excelling there two seasons in a row. Feels like bias and/or premeditated decisions like you said.

Wouldn’t blame the kid one bit if he asked for a trade soon, the whole situation is starting to smell more than a little fishy.

or, hear me out.

Liljegren will be used in a specific setting for the Leafs as a more defensive defender, and the others are purely offensive, so they played them in ways that made sense to gauge how ready they are.

I will continue to say this until people stop saying the Leafs don't like Liljegren. He has 400k in bonuses which for a capped team are hard to accommodate, no other ELC has bonuses currently, it is way easier to play Sandin.

 

[LeafChief]

Seems like there's some pretty good discussion going on here other than one poster. Let's be better.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

You mean like they've given it to Sandin?

Not even hyperbole. What the hell did Sandin do to earn starting Game 1 over Dermott? After Dermott and Bogosian had been a solid bottom pairing all season?

Arguably cost us the series too.

 

[djdev]

Not even hyperbole. What the hell did Sandin do to earn starting Game 1 over Dermott? After Dermott and Bogosian had been a solid bottom pairing all season?

Arguably cost us the series too.

i mean i dont wanna burst your bubble but dermott cost us game 6...not that im pushing for sandin, but if you call him out out for "costing us the series" then i hope u throw in dermotts braindead spinaround giveaway in game 6 that directly lead to the loss.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

i mean i dont wanna burst your bubble but dermott cost us game 6...not that im pushing for sandin, but if you call him out out for "costing us the series" then i hope u throw in dermotts braindead spinaround giveaway in game 6 that directly lead to the loss.

Dermott cost us one game that arguably wouldn’t have even happened if Sandin isn’t in to give away games 1 and 5. My main point is that saying Liljegren should be handed a spot is asinine given it’s already happened with another defender here.

And Galchenyuk is on the shit list as much as anyone but again, if Sandin isn’t in proceeds to be directly responsible for 2 GA in game 5 (that led to him being benched btw) perhaps the game doesn’t even go to OT.

Now I feel like I’m shitting on Sandin a bit much here and I don’t really mean to come off as if I hate him. He’s a damn fine prospect and has a good chance at being a good player (possibly replacing Reilly should he walk as a UFA). But it’s ridiculous to me seeing people spout nonsense like “Liljegren shouldn’t be handed a spot” or “young bottom pairing D like that cost you in the playoffs” when those things have happened to Sandin.

 

[djdev]

Dermott cost us one game that arguably wouldn’t have even happened if Sandin isn’t in to give away games 1 and 5. My main point is that saying Liljegren should be handed a spot is asinine given it’s already happened with another defender here.

lol they threw sandin into a playoff series in a season in which he had played like 4 regular season games with us and what...1 ahl game? lily has had a great camp and will be starting the regular season with the team with plenty of time to learn the system and be evaluated by the coaches and management. these 2 situations are clearly different. the vast majority of people here believe hes earned a shot given his play and very few still think hes being "handed" anything. i want the best team possible on the ice and i believe lily has earned the shot to included in that group. but you can believe what u want, clearly.

also, to the bolded, its funny you only blame the player that suits your narrative and the one that your defending gets a pass because...reasons.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

lol they threw sandin into a playoff series in a season in which he had played like 4 regular season games with us and what...1 ahl game? lily has had a great camp and will be starting the regular season with the team with plenty of time to learn the system and be evaluated by the coaches and management. these 2 situations are clearly different. the vast majority of people here believe hes earned a shot given his play and very few still think hes being "handed" anything. i want the best team possible on the ice and i believe lily has earned the shot to included in that group. but you can believe what u want, clearly.

also, to the bolded, its funny you only blame the player that suits your narrative and the one that your defending gets a pass because...reasons.

This isn’t a difficult concept. Dermott did indeed cost the Leafs game 6 but we aren’t discussing him are we? The point of conversation was our two young promising defensemen and the level of opportunity being granted to them at unequal rates.

Past mistakes led to even greater mistakes. Don’t put Sandin in game 1 maybe it’s a Leafs sweep. Go with the same lineup that dominated game 4 instead of jamming Sandin back in there maybe the series ends in 5. The level and amount of mistakes Sandin made far outweigh mistakes made by Dermott. Hell I’m not even a big Dermott fan, but I’m not going to pretend that his play was as costly for us as throwing in a rookie who’d barely played.

 

[justloveleafs]

D

 

[justloveleafs]

Only a shit of a shit frannie could make lilly a seventh dman..,


Gotta warn you all, if dukeefe makes him a seventh, they are my new ashka nazis..

 

[djdev]

This isn’t a difficult concept. Dermott did indeed cost the Leafs game 6 but we aren’t discussing him are we? The point of conversation was our two young promising defensemen and the level of opportunity being granted to them at unequal rates.

Past mistakes led to even greater mistakes. Don’t put Sandin in game 1 maybe it’s a Leafs sweep. Go with the same lineup that dominated game 4 instead of jamming Sandin back in there maybe the series ends in 5. The level and amount of mistakes Sandin made far outweigh mistakes made by Dermott. Hell I’m not even a big Dermott fan, but I’m not going to pretend that his play was as costly for us as throwing in a rookie who’d barely played.

i literally responded to your post referring to dermott and sandin, and that was our 1st interaction. so it seems we were discussing him lol. anyways...all i am saying is that the circumstances are vastly different than throwing a kid that had barely played the whole year directly into the playoffs and bringing in lily with 82 games of the regular season to see what we have in him, after him showing, to me, alot better all around game than sandin in the minors for the past few years. on a side note ive seen far to many boneheaded plays from dermott over the past 3 seasons to think that maybe he wont be anything more than he is. maybe its time for the new wave of dman to start getting real looks.