Tim Thomas or Roberto Luongo & all goalie trade discussion

[alcanalz]

Jimmy Howard

Carey Price.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Not sure why people don't want him here.

His contract is billions of years long for trillions of dollars. Fans don't care about money, but the implications on the salary cap situation for the next 10 years are questionable at best.

 

[AlmightyPO]

Tim Thomas is the man, if you can get him to agree to play.

A man armed with truth has nothing to lose!

You get Thomas to play, he will be amazing, book it.

I think Lou has his career to think about, Thomas will lay it all out, especially in a short season.

I don't care if Thomas believes in Aliens, If we can have him for the remainder of this season +1 more, it would give the management a lot of flexibility. Lolongo is tainted by the media, and he will be on a leash so short, every mistake of his will be blown out of proportion.

It doesn't matter what the fans or the media think of Tim Thomas' personal believes, but it sure does matter what Burke thinks of them. If people seriously think he is considering trading for Thomas given his stance on gay rights you need to remember what Burke stands for. Burke will not touch him, doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

The Leafs don't "need" Luongo

The only part of your post I actually agree with.

 

[AlmightyPO]

The only part of your post I actually agree with.

We do "need" goaltending though. Obviously we all hope that can be solved internally, but if it isn't...then what? Another year has passed and we are in same spot as before, no goalie.

 

[shakes]

The only part of your post I actually agree with.

So you would be one who would never complain about the goaltending during the season? You know, considering the Leafs don't need a goalie?

 

[MakeTheIronSing]

Carey Price.

He's contract's up at the end of the year. Just saying

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

His contract is billions of years long for trillions of dollars. Fans don't care about money, but the implications on the salary cap situation for the next 10 years are questionable at best.

His cap hit is 5.3 million..... and when he retires the Canucks are penalized with the remainder of the contract.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

So you would be one who would never complain about the goaltending during the season? You know, considering the Leafs don't need a goalie?

The Leafs have about 5 goalies in their system.....I am happy with letting Reimer have another go. I would go after a vet goalie on a short contract as insurance. Doesn't mean I want greasy Lou for 10 years. What do you think the Leafs will accomplish with Luongo in net exactly?

 

[ACC1224]

His cap hit is 5.3 million..... and when he retires the Canucks are penalized with the remainder of the contract.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

What if he doesn't retire?

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

What if he doesn't retire?

Won't cost much to buy him out in five years.

 

[ACC1224]

Won't cost much to buy him out in five years.

What's not much? Dead cap space is never desirable.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Won't cost much to buy him out in five years.

Dude, if we bought him out in 2018, we'd take a 2.65 million dollar cap hit until the year 2028.

 

[Dangles McGavin]

It's strange hearing some people say that they don't want Luongo.

My reasoning for sort of not wanting Luongo is different than most- I (kind of) want to tank this year, get the losers out of town, get an elite C prospect, and only have to suffer through 48 games rather than 82.

But if I push that aside, how can you not want a clear game-changing goalie? Finding a #1 goalie is not easy, and one has pretty much fallen into our laps.

 

[PugFugly]

Dude, if we bought him out in 2018, we'd take a 2.65 million dollar cap hit until the year 2028.

Not quite...

http://capgeek.com/buyout-calculator/?player_id=683&buyout_y=2018&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=15

2018-19: $2,534,667
2019-20: $4,298,667
2020-21: $4,916,667
2021-22: $4,916,667
2022-23: $583,333
2023-24: $583,333
2024-25: $583,333
2025-26: $583,333


Still pretty brutal, though I'd imagine that $4.2 won't be nearly as significant a number by 2019.

 

[topched]

Not quite...

http://capgeek.com/buyout-calculator/?player_id=683&buyout_y=2018&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=15

2018-19: $2,534,667
2019-20: $4,298,667
2020-21: $4,916,667
2021-22: $4,916,667
2022-23: $583,333
2023-24: $583,333
2024-25: $583,333
2025-26: $583,333


Still pretty brutal, though I'd imagine that $4.2 won't be nearly as significant a number by 2019.

Buyout rules have completely changed with the new CBA. No one is even sure how it will exactly work yet. Its a guarantee that it will penalize teams far more than in the old CBA.

 

[PugFugly]

Buyout rules have completely changed with the new CBA. No one is even sure how it will exactly work yet. Its a guarantee that it will penalize teams far more than in the old CBA.

Yeah, fair enough.

Either way, I'm hoping something has been put in place to protect teams acquiring these kind of contracts, otherwise I'm not sure a 1-2 year improvement in goaltending is worth losing cap flexibility moving forward.

 

[topched]

Yeah, fair enough.

Either way, I'm hoping something has been put in place to protect teams acquiring these kind of contracts, otherwise I'm not sure a 1-2 year improvement in goaltending is worth losing cap flexibility moving forward.

This is the feeling that I don't understand.

Do people honestly believe that Luongo will not be a better goaltender than Reimer/Scrivens into his late 30's? These guys haven't even proven to be reliable NHL goaltenders, and aren't prospects anymore.

Many goalies have performed well late into their careers, Brodeur, Kiprusoff, Vokoun, Nabokov and Roloson were all top half of the league quality goaltenders well into their mid and late 30's. Luongo can easily be a top half of the league goaltender until he's 36 or 37. That would be nearly 5 years from now.

In 5 years you can draft and develop multiple goaltenders and groom them to take over the job.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

The Leafs don't "need" Luongo to be a HHOF goalie. They just need him to play like he can.

Not sure why people don't want him here. Are they that afraid of success? Does he guarantee anything? Nope, but he's certainly A LOT better than the alternative.

As to the contract? The cap hit is just over 5 million. That's a very reasonable price. Who cares if it's 10 years? AFAIK, retirement doesn't retain the cap hit, only sending him down.

I agree with this. If July 1st is going to be as promising as you say, why would we ice the least attractive team ? We have to show a turn around before we can sign big UFA's. Players care about winning.

 

[King Mapes]

His cap hit is 5.3 million..... and when he retires the Canucks are penalized with the remainder of the contract.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

They did put that stipulation in for sure? I remember hearing it a couple months ago and haven't lately. If so, I wouldn't mind going after him

 

[PugFugly]

This is the feeling that I don't understand.

Do people honestly believe that Luongo will not be a better goaltender than Reimer/Scrivens into his late 30's? These guys haven't even proven to be reliable NHL goaltenders, and aren't prospects anymore.

Many goalies have performed well late into their careers, Brodeur, Kiprusoff, Vokoun, Nabokov and Roloson were all top half of the league quality goaltenders well into their mid and late 30's. Luongo can easily be a top half of the league goaltender until he's 36 or 37. That would be nearly 5 years from now.

In 5 years you can draft and develop multiple goaltenders and groom them to take over the job.

I was simply throwing out arbitrary numbers and I hear where you're coming from, however I think goalies performing at a star level in their late 30s tends to be more of an exception rather than a rule.

Of the guys you mentioned, only Kiprusoff and Nabokov fit into that category, along with Tim Thomas who would have been another good example. Vokoun is 35 and no longer a starter, while Brodeur became a shell of the goalie he once was after 35 (went from a .920 sv% at 34-35 to a sub-.910 guy over the past 3). Roloson was never a top performer other than 1 big season in Minnesota, though I'll admit he was quite durable in his late 30s.

Even if we assume Luongo plays at an elite level until he's 37, we'd be on the hook for another 6 years, which I see as a problem.

 

[Gobias Industries]

It doesn't matter what the fans or the media think of Tim Thomas' personal believes, but it sure does matter what Burke thinks of them. If people seriously think he is considering trading for Thomas given his stance on gay rights you need to remember what Burke stands for. Burke will not touch him, doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

Does Burke have a history of not dealing with bigoted players?

Otherwise this reeks of speculation, and as a fan, I would want him contracting the best talent regardless of his moral compass.

BTW, I detest Tim Thomas' political views.

 

[topched]

Does Burke have a history of not dealing with bigoted players?

Otherwise this reeks of speculation, and as a fan, I would want him contracting the best talent regardless of his moral compass.

BTW, I detest Tim Thomas' political views.

The fact that there is even discussion on the topic is enough of an indicator that he wouldn't be a good fit on a team full of young, unestablished and impressionable NHLers.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Re: Luongo can handle the pressure in Toronto


Of course he can. We've set the bar so low. On his average night he still could help this team out.
------------

People are splitting hairs here. Lu is still a top goalie in this league, and he is also nowhere close to age 40. What is the problem? We don't want him because we'll never get 8-10 good years out of him? Are you kidding?

He's a gold medal winner & a cup finalist, but you just want someone else?!

 

[Gobias Industries]

The fact that there is even discussion on the topic is enough of an indicator that he wouldn't be a good fit on a team full of young, unestablished and impressionable NHLers.

The fact that there's unfounded fan discussion is enough of an indication that he wouldn't play well on the Leafs? Well, given the variety of opinions this board, I assume you could count out most players with that burden of proof.

The fact is it's a job. At all of our places of work there are likely a few bigoted people. He won a Conn Smythe and had some of the best years any goaltender has EVER had. Debate on whether Burke would feel comfortable morally in trading for him is short-sighted and pure speculation.

Anyway, he's probably off the table, but I'm tired of people speculating that Burke wouldn't like him because of their divided political views; I would consider actions like that unprofessional and to the detriment of the team. So while I don't understand why this is being bandied about, I understand even less why it would be a good thing for the Leafs.