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Tim Thomas or Roberto Luongo & all goalie trade discussion

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Why would getting Luongo be a bad thing? Obviously giving up a first, or certain prospects would not be smart, but for something like Kadri, Bozak and a 3rd? How does that hurt us?
 
colchar said:
All non-playoff teams are now in the draft lottery so there is no guarantee that the Leafs would pick in the top five.
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I'm tired of people misinterpreting the meaning of all non-playoff teams in the lottery. See the NBA draft:


Seed Chances 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 10th 11th 12th 13th 14th
1 250 .250 .215 .178 .357
2 199 .199 .188 .171 .319 .123
3 156 .156 .157 .156 .226 .265 .040
4 119 .119 .126 .133 .099 .351 .160 .012
5 88 .088 .097 .107 .261 .360 .084 .004
6 63 .063 .071 .081 .439 .305 .040 .001
7 43 .043 .049 .058 .599 .232 .018 .000
8 28 .028 .033 .039 .724 .168 .008 .000
9 17 .017 .020 .024 .813 .122 .004 .000
10 11 .011 .013 .016 .870 .089 .002 .000
11 8 .008 .009 .012 .907 .063 .001 .000
12 7 .007 .008 .010 .935 .039 .000
13 6 .006 .007 .009 .960 .018
14 5 .005 .006 .007 .982


If you are the worst team, you are guaranteed to pick inside the top 4, with an over 60% chance in the top 3, 46.5% in top 2, and 25% you get the #1.

On the flip side, if you are the 14th worst team, you have a 98.2% chance of picking 14th.

It's more open in the sense that being the worst now does not necessarily give you such a high chance at #1, and you can move more than 4 places up. But make no mistake, it is still overwhelmingly in favour of the worst teams. Just look at past NBA draft lottery results (although I'm one of the people who feels Stern and the NBA do rig their lottery, but I digress).

Edit: the chart looks very messing since the spacings aren't recognized, here's the wiki link to it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nba_draft_lottery
 
Loungo...first I would not want to touch another deal with Boston, second Luongo is in his prime and third Thomas strikes me as a headcase who I would not want to put my faith in.
 
I do not even see Thomas as an option considering he publiclly sided with Chick-fil-A and "the biblical definition of the family unit." Why would Burke, of all people, even consider a guy like Thomas on his team?
 
Fogelhund said:
I'll go with Luongo.

I would agree with those that say Thomas is a cheaper short-term option. Maybe he might be useful for a year.. maybe two. It would cost us less in assets, and a shorter term contract.

However, the 2013 off season should be a critical one for our Maple Leafs. If the Leafs hope to attract the big names, the Getzlaf types, we need to show that we are serious about winning, and Burke needs to make changes that show he is committed to the long term.

Would a Getzlaf see Thomas about to retire as a good goal tending solution?

I think it is time for Burke to really start to go hard.
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His age?....viagra maybe. :laugh:

I would want Luongo. I think he is a world class tender that can give us stability in net for years.
 
Christ said:
Loungo...first I would not want to touch another deal with Boston, second Luongo is in his prime and third Thomas strikes me as a headcase who I would not want to put my faith in.
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I'm not saying he's not a better option than Thomas but he's 33, turning 34 this season. It's unlikely his prime is ahead of him, or even that he's still in it.
 
There's a reason why Gus was let go, to make room for Luongo

I think it'll be good for Reimer to take it easy and ease back into things, learn from Luongo.

Plus I don't like the idea of Scrivens backing up Reimer..it doesn't seem right especially with Scrivens playing so well down in the A and Reimer and his concussion issues. So much uncertainty, I can't believe Burke is going to go into a shortened season with two unproven goalies, just like we did for the past 2-3 years with Gus and Reimer..
 
The tanking notion is absurd. This isn't the NBA where you can't win without a top draft pick.

The only conceivable reason to tank in the NHL, ever, is when a talent like Crosby is coming in, and Macinnon/Jones aren't Crosby.
 
We should so obviously just play our young players this season and draft highly but what Burke will do to save is job will be the huge blunder of trading for Lu on the down end of his career and not only bring the Leafs to 9th or 10th in the East, but saddle us with big cap and years for what is at this moment an above average goalie...
 
If i understand the new CBA buyout details correctly, there will be two available buyout periods Summer 2013 & Summer 2014.

If that's true, then trading for Luongo now seems like a no-brainer to me. Worst case he doesn't pan out after the 2013/2014 season and we buy him out. No long-term cap hit risk this way and if he pans out then great, we keep him around.

Leafs have the $ and with the buyouts coming out of the players share, it seems like a very logical move to me.

For Vancouver, this would essentially be a salary dump and mitigation of risk if they can't trade him after next season and have to swallow the buyout themselves.

As fans, why do we care how much Leafs spend on buyouts (if it comes to that), since it wont have an impact on their ability to sign other players and they will still spend up to the cap every year possible?

P.S. Having said the above, i am with the crowd that don't want to send a top 6 forward in return. Bozak, MacArthur, Connoly, etc. are acceptable. It will really come down to if there are any other suiters for Luongo...if its just Leafs, we will get a good deal IMO, if Florida is really interested, then it may not be worth the premium....although the risk for Florida is WAY higher, since they likely can't contemplace a buyout after next season.
 
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AlmightyPO said:
Why would getting Luongo be a bad thing? Obviously giving up a first, or certain prospects would not be smart, but for something like Kadri, Bozak and a 3rd? How does that hurt us?
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Because in your proposed deal, we still would be giving up our top forward prospect? And that, still, may not be enough if you go by the absurd demands Canucks fans are pushing?

I picked 'Neither' simply because I have no interest in giving up serious assets for two very flawed players. Thomas is older and he has some political views that have caused problems in the past. Luongo, meanwhile, is prone to choking in big game situations and has a contract that extends in eternity. If either are available for something along the lines of a middiling prospect, mid-low round picks, and expendable roster pieces (Bozak, MacArthur, etc.), then sure. Anymore and I hope Burke passes. As little success as we have had in finding a goalie since Belfour left, they aren't that rare commodities.
 
htpwn said:
Because in your proposed deal, we still would be giving up our top forward prospect? And that, still, may not be enough if you go by the absurd demands Canucks fans are pushing?

I picked 'Neither' simply because I have no interest in giving up serious assets for two very flawed players. Thomas is older and he has some political views that have caused problems in the past. Luongo, meanwhile, is prone to choking in big game situations and has a contract that extends in eternity. If either are available for something along the lines of a middiling prospect, mid-low round picks, and expendable roster pieces (Bozak, MacArthur, etc.), then sure. Anymore and I hope Burke passes. As little success as we have had in finding a goalie since Belfour left, they aren't that rare commodities.
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I cannot believe that no one wants Thomas just based on his political views. How does that effect his game? Overwhelmingly no one even talks about his ability in net. What's up with that?
 
Wow, hypocrisy the new morality.

Who cares what Thomas believes bigot? Oh certain lifestyles are acceptable but others aren't. Thomas would come cheap and is a winner. Luongo who may have the exact same beliefs for all we know, is expensive, and a loser.If the price is Kadri and Bozak,keep him. A 3rd rounder for Thomas leaves us with pieces to trade for another number one center.

Thomas has guts, something the Leafs sorely lack.One has to wonder if loose morals is why we got cursed?
 
Hal Gill As A Leaf said:
I cannot believe that no one wants Thomas just based on his political views. How does that effect his game? Overwhelmingly no one even talks about his ability in net. What's up with that?
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I think at the end of the day nobody would care about his political views if he kept them to himself like everyone else does in the NHL. It's the fact that he's a loud-mouth about it that causes him issues with it.
 
ACC1224 said:
It probably has been. What does it say?
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A Vancouver source told QMI Agency on Sunday that the Canucks want to study the new CBA before making a decision on what to do with Luongo, which could very well end up being a deal to Toronto if it proves to be the right fit.
 
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