iArts
ಠ_ಠ
So you are completely discrediting a goalie because he's playing behind a good team? Have you ever seen him play?
Are you joking me?
Phil Kessel is doing just fine on a much worse team. Why is Luongo going to be different?
Tim Thomas or Roberto Luongo & all goalie trade discussion
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So you are completely discrediting a goalie because he's playing behind a good team? Have you ever seen him play?
Are you joking me?
Phil Kessel is doing just fine on a much worse team. Why is Luongo going to be different?
Bomber0104
Registered User
Because Phil Kessel has to worry about scoring points and he's found a pretty good way to do it (cherry pick/no defence) which ironically wont bode well for Lungo now that you mention it.
Lungo has to leave behind a team that plays very good defence.
Have you ever seen The Canucks play?
Trying to play net in front of a weak defensive team is a completely different thing than a forward switching teams.
iArts
ಠ_ಠ
Phil Kessel is cherry picking?
Are you telling me that Luongo won't be MUCH better than Reimer behind the same team? I'm willing to bet money on it.
Bomber0104
Registered User
Phil Kessel is cherry picking?
Are you telling me that Luongo won't be MUCH better than Reimer behind the same team? I'm willing to bet money on it.
An upgrade yes.
But then again...Carey Price is a much better goalie than probably either of them.
Montreal was third last.
In my opinion you are vastly underrating the drop off in team defence between Vancouver and Toronto...pretty much the overall talent level of the team actually.
It's so important when judging a trade like this.
If Luongo wasn't the answer there...how can he be the answer here?
Bomber0104
Registered User
You don't make Luongo type deals just for the sake of an upgrade.
You DO make Luongo type deals because you realistically think you can win a Cup with him.
In my "realistic" opinion...I do not see how that is possible.
It really is as simple as that.
You DO make Luongo type deals because you realistically think you can win a Cup with him.
In my "realistic" opinion...I do not see how that is possible.
It really is as simple as that.
Kurtz
Registered User
- Jul 17, 2005
- 10,536
- 7,792
What utter non-sense.
Kessel generated his offense by attacking through the neutral zone and by being a sniper on the PP. If he tried cherry-picking he wouldn't be able to crack 25 goals, because bloody Bozak is his center!
And Vancouver's defence is perfectly average now. They're made to look way better than they are by their two stud goalies - just like our defence is made to look worse than it is because of two poor goalies (and Wilson's system).
BayStBullies
Burn the Boats!
- Apr 1, 2012
- 5,621
- 5,145
This is by far the dumbest comment I have ever read on these forums; that is not an easy task.
The goals and expectations for this team are not to win a few playoff games; we are looking for another cup. I would imagine that is the goal for every team; regardless if your team has ever won one before (Is this the reason a playoff win equates to the main goal in Vancouver; judging from your comment?).
There are no delusions to the lack of succes of the Leafs amongst us fans. Neither of our teams have won a cup in 40 years; we're well aware of the lack of success. The fact you can't seem to grasp is that the Leafs are not a Luongo away from a cup; neither were the Canucks; who have a much better team. It does not make sense for the Leafs to acquire a goalie with a fer good years left; locked down for the next decade. That does not coincide with the state of this team. When are ready to compete; we don't want that to follow shooting ourselvea in the feet; because we have a goalie we cannot move; who has never proven to be competent at winning the ultimate prize. That is the position you are in now. Judging by the thousands of posts about getting rid of Luongo on your boards; it is not a future decision that would be beneficial to the Leafs; when he is further away from his prime.
Luongo does not equal guaranteed playoff wins; if he did; you would not have pulled him out of the net when it mattered most. If it did; you would not be so desperate to shop him. Luongo is only a top 5 goalie on a Vancouver roster; he is not top 20 if on the current Leafs. We are better off getting a goalie that doesn't have the risk attatched. We also have time to get one. Gaining good draft picks does not hurt us. Saving cap space for legitimate players who don't screw our future plans (when we can compete) does not hurt us either.
Enjoy Luongo; the best goalie solution; which no one (including the Canucks) believe to be a solution...
Edit: You may not be a Canucks fan; I'm on a phone and don't care to invest the time to find out.
Bomber0104
Registered User
In my opinion, and this is just opinion (just like your post)...
Phil Kessel gets his points because he rids himself of any defensive role. It's just funny that we are on this subject because it's because of players like Kessel occupying huge minutes that are reasons why Toronto is so terrible defensively.
Vancouver plays a very hard defensive style game which revolves around a system of forechecking, puck possession and tight defensive presence in their own end.
Toronto is very poor defensively and this will deteriorate Lungo's value to us more than it already should for obvious reasons.
Bomber0104
Registered User
I love Vancouver fans - if Luo is so great - keep him. Stop trying to trade him to every *** team in the league.
Rants Mulliniks
Registered User
- Jun 22, 2008
- 23,168
- 6,215
thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
- Jun 17, 2011
- 44,275
- 14,836
The Wilson system was devastating on goalies. I blame that more than anything. Vancouver has good defense, above average I would hope but the goalies are good yes, Lou is a good tender overall.
Canucks LB
My Favourite, Gone too soon, RIP Luc, We miss you
- Oct 12, 2008
- 80,131
- 36,075
So luongo can win 15 games in the playoffs, but GOD FORBID luongo winning 16 games.
That's crazy, one more game! ludicrous, trade him for scraps.
That's crazy, one more game! ludicrous, trade him for scraps.
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
JMcLeaf
__________
- Mar 21, 2010
- 18,601
- 19
thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
- Jun 17, 2011
- 44,275
- 14,836
I bet its something like Bozak, Kadri, 1st and Kules... Gillis is like that it seems.
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
The most ironic thing is he got you guys there and you guys want to trade him to another team. We get his value yet you want to move him and it seems like the choices are numbered yet you want a premium.
If people aren't realizing his value as an very good goalie then a lot of others aren't realizing the potential market for that goalie isn't that great either. If it was then this speculation wouldn't be still going on.
topched
Registered User
Considering I'm a leaf fan and you were on a phone, I feel sorry you probably wasted that much time putting together that post. If you don't care to "invest the time" then in reality I don't feel sorry at all, as you probably had that waste of time coming to you.
Certainly, taking one single piece of my post out of context and not considering it as a whole is going to take away from the overall argument.
Luongo isn't going to win a Cup for the leafs single handedly, but he will significantly improve this team's chance of making the playoffs. He's a piece of the puzzle, at arguable the position where a piece is needed the most. The time to "get one" is dwindling. Kessel and Phaneuf have two seasons to free agency, Lupul the same. Those are arguably the three best players on the current roster gone in two years. Sure we've got young kids, and sure we can tank and continue to draft. But that doesn't guarantee a thing. You're losing all-star calibre players for the chance to draft players who might be.
Burke's tenure is going to be defined over what he does the next two years. The most important thing he needs to do is to restore a winning culture to the Toronto Maple Leafs. If you can bring in another all-star calibre player in Luongo, even if he's only at that calibre for another 2-3 years, that is a significant step in the process. Then you can use the next couple seasons to add valuable free agent pieces to the puzzle, while also retaining the talent you currently have. Lets not forget holding on to our draft picks and developing young players.
If we've made the playoffs for 3 or 4 years in a row and Luongo becomes a 2 million dollar burden on the cap then so be it. By that time our GM should have supplemented our roster with enough talent that we can overcome it.
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
- Jun 17, 2011
- 44,275
- 14,836
I just made those names up from the top of my head, they didnt say that or similar did they? If they did thats nuts.
JMcLeaf
__________
- Mar 21, 2010
- 18,601
- 19
Damn what the heck. I'd be happy to have Luongo, but I don't want Burkie to overpay.
Unless the deal is reasonable just start the season with Reimer and Scrivens and hope for the best. Hopefully St. Croix helps Reimer gets his game back. Carlyle's defensive system should help a lot too.
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
I'd be happy to have him too but not at a premium that some are asking for sure.
Agreed, carlyle's defense should help this teams a lot.
Actually, the goal is to make a profit. I imagine that is the mandate for pretty much every team. If they could choose only one, most teams/owners would prefer to make a profit over winning, let alone making the playoffs or even a cup.
Not to play devils advocate, because I don't think Luongo's contract is ideal, but wouldn't getting Luongo make Toronto an ideal place for the upcoming 2013 free agency group?
How many playoffs did Luongo get the Panthers into?
This notion that he guarantees a crappy team the playoffs is crazy.
This notion that he guarantees a crappy team the playoffs is crazy.
