Tim Thomas or Roberto Luongo & all goalie trade discussion

[topched]

Mike Smith is 30 though. Reimer is 24, so maybe Reimer is Mike Smith, once you do away with the Rotten Ronnie Rodeo.

So we wait 6 years for Reimer to develop into Mike Smith?

My point was that they "lucked" into those guys:

Kipper was pushed out behind Nabokov and Toskala, wasn't even considered to be a prospect, turned into a Vezina candidate.

Smith lost his chance to start twice, with Dallas and then with Tampa before catching on with Phoenix and becoming a #1 goalie.

Tim Thomas was ancient and had played halfway across the world before becoming a star in Boston.

Reimer could turn into an elite #1 guy, but the jury is out, an the odds are ugly.

 

[Razz]

1. Luongo isn't in game shape? Did you head down to florida with calipers to check his body fat? He's in the same shape as the other 90% of the league who weren't playing during the lockout.

He's not been playing so he's not in game shape. I didn't say he wasn't in shape as there is no way I would know that (addressing your body fat reference). I assume he's ready for the season, as he is after all a professional athlete. He still is a slow starter though.

My point still stands, do we really want a slow starter whom hasn't been playing to backdrop our team this year? We need a quick start otherwise, I'd rather we get a good pick this year. Maybe we acquire him during the summer instead.

2. A move for Luongo would be about far more than just this season. Goalies, especially elite ones are notorious for performing well into their late 30's. Luongo has at least 5 years of high calibre (maybe not elite) play in him still

I agree with you, he's an elite goalie and probably will be for the foreseeable future. The cap recapture rule is a concern though and I'm sure the Leafs would rather not be stuck with 9 years of Luongo's contract if they could avoid it. I think the Canucks will have to keep some of that cap hit to make it work.

3. Better options next summer? Like what? Backstrom/Vokoun/Theodore? All of those guys are no where near as good as Luongo, not even close. Howard won't be making it to FA. Its extremely rare for a goaltender of this calibre to become available, regardless of cost.

You are right, but we don't necessarily need a long term option, unless you believe all of the goalies we're developing will all bust.

Acquiring Luongo will be an upgrade, do not get me wrong, but is it better for the team as a whole over the long term? This is debatable and would represent a massive shift from the current plan (whether or not you agree with the plan is another point entirely).

Acquiring a younger goalie via trade is also an option (which you have omitted). The team is young perhaps it's best to have a goalie in the age group of the team.

 

[Mess]

Mike Smith is 30 though. Reimer is 24, so maybe Reimer is Mike Smith, once you do away with the Rotten Ronnie Rodeo.

When is Dave Tippett's contract ending in Phoenix because he is really the man behind making Mike Smith the player he is today, just like he made Brzgalov and others that play in a system where defense is the priority?. Show me a good coach and I'll show you a good goalie, as even teams playing at the cap floor Phoenix, Nashville etc can make the playoffs and have their goalies prosper in systems that promote accountability at both ends of the ice.

Mike Smith under rotten Ronnie would be no different then the goalie he was in TB before arriving in Phoenix as a UFA.

Reimer under Carlyle will be improved because the environment around him has improved and the team finally took out the trash as it was rotten.

 

[iArts]

Lungo would absolutely turn this team around. People don't seem to realize how big of a difference a great goalie can make.

We are talking about a goalie who won an Olympic gold medal btw. Not some questionable backup (Bernier, Harding, etc.)

 

[DD03]

Lungo would absolutely turn this team around. People don't seem to realize how big of a difference a great goalie can make.

We are talking about a goalie who won an Olympic gold medal btw. Not some questionable backup (Bernier, Harding, etc.)

Two problems this team has.

GAA and PK.

Your goaltender is your best penalty killer. Fixes both problems. I agree.

 

[Keeping it Blue]

Lungo would absolutely turn this team around. People don't seem to realize how big of a difference a great goalie can make.

I think 75% of people thinking a good goalie would turn this team around based on the poll.

 

[iArts]

I think 75% of people thinking a good goalie would turn this team around based on the poll.

Not exactly. The poll asks Luongo or Thomas? Not "would a great goalie turn this team around?".

 

[HockeyOrDie]

"James Cybulski ‏@JamesCybulski

I'm told Brian Burke and the Leafs have said no thanks to the Kings regarding G Jonathan Bernier."

 

[Fogelhund]

Actually, now that you mention it, does it really matter if it is NMC or NTC?

Demoting to the minors, which was prevented by NMC, was about getting the player off the cap. Now that that only covers off less than a million, demoting to the minors is kind of meaningless for large contracts.

NMC has been muzzled.

Yes and No. He would have to go through waivers, and likely be claimed... meaning you don't have the cap hit anymore. Surely they could find someone to trade for him... even a 4th round pick is better than waivers.

 

[iArts]

"James Cybulski ‏@JamesCybulski

I'm told Brian Burke and the Leafs have said no thanks to the Kings regarding G Jonathan Bernier."

AWESOME! He is not what we need at all. We need a good, proven goalie.

 

[topched]

When is Dave Tippett's contract ending in Phoenix because he is really the man behind making Mike Smith the player he is today, just like he made Brzgalov and others that play in a system where defense is the priority?. Show me a good coach and I'll show you a good goalie, as even teams playing at the cap floor Phoenix, Nashville etc can make the playoffs and have their goalies prosper in systems that promote accountability at both ends of the ice.

Mike Smith under rotten Ronnie would be no different then the goalie he was in TB before arriving in Phoenix as a UFA.

Reimer under Carlyle will be improved because the environment around him has improved and the team finally took out the trash as it was rotten.

I think it can go both ways though Mess.

Guys like Vigneault, Julien, Ruff and Tortorella have had success because of their goaltending. It allows you to play an up-tempo, trade chances style when you've got a guy between the pipes who can save your butt.

Really its the choice between a low scoring offence and lockdown D vs. high powered offense and a rock solid goaltender. Right now given our back end, forward group and young players like Gardiner, Rielly and Kadri... I'd say this team is suited more for the latter.

 

[Stats01]

"James Cybulski ‏@JamesCybulski

I'm told Brian Burke and the Leafs have said no thanks to the Kings regarding G Jonathan Bernier."

Good, he's another unproven guy. He has potential but where have I seen this picture before hmm..Toskala?

I hope they turn their focus to Luongo

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Re: Luongo

How soon can we expect a Burke / Luongo presser? Saturday before Sunday's training camp?

 

[colchar]

Luongo is about to turn 34. Thomas is 2 or 3 times older than that.

Thomas is 68 or 102????

 

[colchar]

I can almost guarantee you that wouldn't fly in the ACC.

The goalie doesn't need a pat on the back for stopping a dump in behind the net

The people in B.C. do it because they are so used to hugging trees that they feel the need to give something some love whenever they wander out of the forest and into town for a game.

 

[colchar]

Can someone please remind me the last time this happened?

Oh wait, it was Luongo from Florida

Rask.

 

[colchar]

Are you suggesting the Leafs should trade for Schneider instead?

That would be nice.

 

[Jerkini]

Can we have an agreement that fans attending games don't do that fricken stupid LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO chant when he stops a puck that my ancient father could handle?

I don't know... The last couple times we've been a playoff team, our goalies have had an ACC chant..

 

[JMcLeaf]

When is Dave Tippett's contract ending in Phoenix because he is really the man behind making Mike Smith the player he is today, just like he made Brzgalov and others that play in a system where defense is the priority?. Show me a good coach and I'll show you a good goalie, as even teams playing at the cap floor Phoenix, Nashville etc can make the playoffs and have their goalies prosper in systems that promote accountability at both ends of the ice.

Mike Smith under rotten Ronnie would be no different then the goalie he was in TB before arriving in Phoenix as a UFA.

Reimer under Carlyle will be improved because the environment around him has improved and the team finally took out the trash as it was rotten.

Dave Tippett's system certainly helps, but I think Sean Burke deserves a lot of credit for Smith's success.

 

[colchar]

St.Louis? Halak and Elliott had solid years last season and both are 27

I would love it if the Blues were facing cap issues and were willing to let one of them go as I would love to see Halak playing for the Leafs. I'd even be happy with Elliot despite him having a higher GAA and lower save percentage.

 

[4evaBlue]

Have you seen the link for the explanation of who is on the hook for the cap hit?

If they retire they don't get any money, but the team has to take a cap hit.

No, I haven't, was pretty busy today. I glanced over the table's "cap penalty" column real quick, but not sure which team that applied to. It looks like the Leafs would be on the hook for the cap penalty as well. It's really a no lose situation for the Canucks (who were the architects of the awful contract) assuming Schneider works out.

Forgetting about Luongo for a minute, are there any other teams with two decent goalies (they don't have to be superstars, just solid goalies) who are facing cap issues and who thus might be willing/forced to move a goalie?

This would be my preferred avenue. With the cap going up to $64.3M from $60M, I'm not sure any teams will be facing cap issues that an amnesty or two can't fix. Bryzgalov could very easily be a candidate for an amnesty buyout (and a new contract offer), but would Burke want to take a chance on him? Is he willing to go into this shortened season with Reimer/Scrivens combo?

St.Louis? Halak and Elliott had solid years last season and both are 27

One was chased out of MTL, other from OTT. Are they really as good as their numbers indicate, or are they the product of a solid defensive system? Will they pull a Bryzgalov once they're traded to a less defensive minded team?

 

[4evaBlue]

I think 75% of people thinking a good goalie would turn this team around based on the poll.

The question is, at what price, and for how long?

Edit: I think the vast majority of the fans would agree that we need to fix our goaltending. Having voted on the neither option myself, I just don't like either of those options going forward, and see them as more of a stopgap (one of them a very expensive one) than a solution.

 

[colchar]

"James Cybulski ‏@JamesCybulski

I'm told Brian Burke and the Leafs have said no thanks to the Kings regarding G Jonathan Bernier."

Not sure how true that can be if they aren't allowed to talk trades yet.

 

[JEI]

I'd try and pry away Niklas Backstrom from the Minnesota Wild if possible. They are pushed up against the cap I believe, and have Harding/Hackett as a tandem if need be.

 

[Bomber0104]

If Vancouver couldn't win with Luongo, we won't either.

Luongo has like 2-3 good years left in him and the Leafs don't have the ability to contend in that time.

However:

In that time, the Leafs could have picked up MacKinnon, Eckblad, and McDavid...rather than not contending.

In that time, the Leafs could have picked up one goalie through free agency that would be better than Luongo.

In that time, the Leafs could develop one of their own goaltenders or find a cheaper trade option without a stupid long contract.

Better options out there.

This guy's a chump, and we dont need him. We'll just end up wishing we could do the VERY SAME THING Vancouver is doing NOW in a few years time when we realize the guy is in reality a chump, has no value and thus untradeable, and we'll wish we didn't ship out all the good pieces it will most likely cost for him.