Tim Thomas or Roberto Luongo & all goalie trade discussion

[ULF_55]

Have they actually confirmed that retirement counts. What I read was that it was sending players down, not retirement.

Yes there is an impact for those long term contracts if the player retires early.

 

[4evaBlue]

Huh?

I thought it was pretty self explanatory. An example where the decent chunk of the fanbase is upset at Burke mismanaging assets that could come back and haunt us somewhere down the line. The difference is, a Luongo deal, should it happen, will almost certainly cost us dearly in the future. The only question is, how soon?

How many "good" years does he left in him? Will he be like a Thomas, or Roloson, or will he be like the majority of the goalies in the league who steadily decline after 35'ish? Will he help the Leafs become contenders, or is he merely a stopgap for a few years?

 

[Stats01]

I just mentioned this on the Canucks board, because they're all on their high horse about holding the power in this situation. First of all having a 5 million dollar back up is asset management 101 for idiots. Second of all let's just say Schneider plays 40 of the 48 games this year. That means Luongo will be paid approximately $625,000 per game...crazy. But hey if they're comfortable with him being a back-up then good luck.

Or if Schneider struggles and they put Luongo back as a starter, that means they have a 4 million dollar back-up. Not much better.

 

[Roboholic]

Weiss is a UFA at seasons end, talks have not gone well on a new deal in Florida and the Panthers may lose him to free agency next summer.

Lots of reason why Florida may part with Weiss in a Luongo deal. They also have a top ranked prospect pool to fill future NHL spots as you mentioned Huberdeau being one..

I think if they traded him, it would be at the deadline, not before the season started, Luongo would be gone by then I think.

Overall I like Luongo but I want to give Reimer another shot over a 48 game schedule. Worst case scenario the leafs grab a top 5 pick and potentially set themselves up to contend in the next 2 or 3 years, best case Reimer proves himself a starter.

I'd still take Luongo for peanuts though, a 2nd + Bozak/franson.

 

[4evaBlue]

Or if Schneider struggles and they put Luongo back as a starter, that means they have a 4 million dollar back-up. Not much better.

And this scenario is not exactly a stretch when talking about a goalie with 68 games of NHL experience, playing mostly in a sheltered role.

The Canucks will have to chose one or the other, that's certain. In a $64M cap NHL, I don't think you can afford to have $9M+ tied up in goaltending.

 

[Stats01]

I think if they traded him, it would be at the deadline, not before the season started.

Ok so another part of this I just thought about. Let's just say they're having hard time re-signing Weiss how could they come up with the funds to take on Luongo's contract when they already have two guys signed plus Markstrom ready to take over as well? I'm just trying to wrap my head around this apparent Florida interest. Yes Luongo's an upgrade but I just think they have other options they can go to and use whatever money they have to spend on other areas.

 

[Ruski]

I would think that Leafs revenue will still be in top 10 in the league, so that they will put their share into the pool of money. I dont see any connection between buyout and revenue sharing.

Would be a smaller share in that case no?

Along the same lines, do we know how these amnesty buyouts are amortized? It is one big him in a year or some %/year for many years?

 

[Mess]

I think if they traded him, it would be at the deadline, not before the season started.

I don't think Florida is looking to trade Weiss right now, but if the Luongo deal is predicated by it happening sooner than later and if he needs to be involved as per Vancouver's request and Florida wants Luo than all the stars are aligned for a potential trade.

 

[topched]

I don't think Florida is looking to trade Weiss right now, but if the Luongo deal is predicated by it happening sooner than later and if he needs to be involved as per Vancouver's request and Florida wants Luo than all the stars are aligned for a potential trade.

I have a tough time believing Florida wants Luo.

They've been all about being cost effective, they let Jason Garrison walk for far less money than Luo is making.

They've got a young core with guys like Versteeg, Matthias, Ellerby, Huberdeau, Bjugstad and Howden. They've also got maybe the best NHL ready goaltending prospect in the game right now in Markstrom. I don't see them committing to Luongo for the next decade.

 

[Stats01]

I don't think Florida is looking to trade Weiss right now, but if the Luongo deal is predicated by it happening sooner than later and if he needs to be involved as per Vancouver's request and Florida wants Luo than all the stars are aligned for a potential trade.

That's a good point.

 

[King Mapes]

I think if they traded him, it would be at the deadline, not before the season started.

I actually think they'll deal him between the draft and July 1st. Mine as well keep him this year and just have Schneider start most games than unload him before free agency starts.

 

[Stats01]

I have a tough time believing Florida wants Luo.

They've been all about being cost effective, they let Jason Garrison walk for far less money than Luo is making.

They've got a young core with guys like Versteeg, Matthias, Ellerby, Huberdeau, Bjugstad and Howden. They've also got maybe the best NHL ready goaltending prospect in the game right now in Markstrom. I don't see them committing to Luongo for the next decade.

Same here, they could move Weiss as part of a deal, but is that really smart when you already have pretty good goaltending depth. You're just taking a chunk of your offence and stacking up on goaltending. Unless they move Markstrom for other pieces..ugh anyway we'll see what happens. I think it's a longshot for Florida iMO

 

[4evaBlue]

Would be a smaller share in that case no?

Along the same lines, do we know how these amnesty buyouts are amortized? It is one big him in a year or some %/year for many years?

From my understanding, the owner is responsible to "make whole" the amnestied player's contract. Let's say Luongo gets amnestied, and the Panthers pick him up for 5 years at $5M, the Canucks would be on the hook for $1.714M per season (not counted towards their cap) to make up the $6.714M Luongo would be making for the next 5 seasons. Should he decide to retire after the fact, the Canucks still owe him the remainder of the contract.

I'm not sure how the cap hit would be managed for the retired portion of the contract, but I believe both teams would share it.

 

[topched]

I actually think they'll deal him between the draft and July 1st. Mine as well keep him this year and just have Schneider start most games than unload him before free agency starts.

Why would you pay a guy that salary to play less than 10 games?

Not to mention the circus it will cause in Vancouver, knowing everytime Schneider has a rought night the media will stuff mic's in everyones face asking if there is a goalie controversy

 

[Stats01]

Why would you pay a guy that salary to play less than 10 games?

Not to mention the circus it will cause in Vancouver, knowing everytime Schneider has a rought night the media will stuff mic's in everyones face asking if there is a goalie controversy

As the saying goes "be careful what you wish for" Thats all I have to say to the Canuck fans. Part of me wants to see the circus around that team if a trade doesn't happen. It would be great stuff. 9+million dollars in goaltending lol..go for it Vancouver go for it

 

[phillipsj89]

Since you have a crystal ball would you mind sending me a PM with this week's winning lottery numbers?

haha, unfortunately, lottery numbers don't have the history of Scriv and Reim, comeon man, they suck. Also with the ability to trade cap space, the Canucks could lower the Luongo cap hit. What if the Canucks are willing to trade the max cap hit that a team is allowed to. Could reduce Luo's cap hit to 2.375 or something.

 

[King Mapes]

Why would you pay a guy that salary to play less than 10 games?

Not to mention the circus it will cause in Vancouver, knowing everytime Schneider has a rought night the media will stuff mic's in everyones face asking if there is a goalie controversy

Because they have money, they aren't a poor team. Cap space means nothing mid season. Mine as well keep him in a shortened season since you play more often so Schneider will need rest and in case of injury. They won't get much help for right now. His value dropped with the CBA, if we deal for him and he retires early, we get stung too. His value went way down.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

Nice Avatar dude.

Good like with your campaign.

We'll hear your boo's in the stands and know you're really cheering for "Luuuuu...".

 

[King Mapes]

haha, unfortunately, lottery numbers don't have the history of Scriv and Reim, comeon man, they suck. Also with the ability to trade cap space, the Canucks could lower the Luongo cap hit. What if the Canucks are willing to trade the max cap hit that a team is allowed to. Could reduce Luo's cap hit to 2.375 or something.

Reimer has proven he can play at this level, wouldn't exactly say he "sucks"

 

[phillipsj89]

Reimer has proven he can play at this level, wouldn't exactly say he "sucks"

I'm Sorry, but I think you said he has proven he can play?

 

[ULF_55]

I have a tough time believing Florida wants Luo.

They've been all about being cost effective, they let Jason Garrison walk for far less money than Luo is making.

They've got a young core with guys like Versteeg, Matthias, Ellerby, Huberdeau, Bjugstad and Howden. They've also got maybe the best NHL ready goaltending prospect in the game right now in Markstrom. I don't see them committing to Luongo for the next decade.

Lou has what a NMC?

Is certainly going to be an interesting 2 weeks.

Are there going to be a tonne of movement? We could be surprised.

 

[topched]

Because they have money, they aren't a poor team. Cap space means nothing mid season. Mine as well keep him in a shortened season since you play more often so Schneider will need rest and in case of injury. They won't get much help for right now. His value dropped with the CBA, if we deal for him and he retires early, we get stung too. His value went way down.

The thing is Luongo's value isn't going to be any higher than it is now. If they commit to Schneider and Luongo plays 8 games this year, how much value will he have?

They're really in a no-win situation. Sure the value isn't great now, but it likely won't be down the road either.

So the question is trade him now before the circus or endure it and trade him later for the same return... oh yeah and Aqualini gets to pay him 5 mill in real dollars. Not a good way to make your owner happy if you're the GM.

 

[Stats01]

Sure the cap means nothing mid season, but how does it feel to pay a guy 5 million bucks to play what? 8-10 games. Yeah great value there.

 

[phillipsj89]

The thing is Luongo's value isn't going to be any higher than it is now. If they commit to Schneider and Luongo plays 8 games this year, how much value will he have?

They're really in a no-win situation. Sure the value isn't great now, but it likely won't be down the road either.

So the question is trade him now before the circus or endure it and trade him later for the same return... oh yeah and Aqualini gets to pay him 5 mill in real dollars. Not a good way to make your owner happy if you're the GM.

Tradeable Cap

 

[ULF_55]

From my understanding, the owner is responsible to "make whole" the amnestied player's contract. Let's say Luongo gets amnestied, and the Panthers pick him up for 5 years at $5M, the Canucks would be on the hook for $1.714M per season (not counted towards their cap) to make up the $6.714M Luongo would be making for the next 5 seasons. Should he decide to retire after the fact, the Canucks still owe him the remainder of the contract.

I'm not sure how the cap hit would be managed for the retired portion of the contract, but I believe both teams would share it.

Have you seen the link for the explanation of who is on the hook for the cap hit?

If they retire they don't get any money, but the team has to take a cap hit.