Tim Thomas or Roberto Luongo & all goalie trade discussion

[thewave]

I personally think in the end Mike Gillis is going to look like Scott Howson did after he traded Rick Nash..

I think I have to tend to agree with you and the whole post made sense. Lou is considered a star but he is a star holding a NTC and one who made it public he wants out. Mike Gillis is just blowing hot air really.

 

[charliolemieux]

There are literally hundreds of posts on this board proclaiming that the only reason the Leafs were not a playoff team is due to goaltending.

Burke's buds are so funny.

Last season Goaltending was sure a huge reasonas to why he didn;t make the playoffs.

This year might be totally different. I think there are other teams that have improved or will be improving far more than what the LEafs will be to even make Luongo worth grabbing.

As I posted in another thread I think there are only three spots open for the playoffs.

I don't like the idea of giving up good assets to get Luongo.

If he is bought out, then sure sign him up. BUt I am not giving away Kadri right before he takes his next step.

 

[Gatorade*]

Last season Goaltending was sure a huge reasonas to why he didn;t make the playoffs.

This year might be totally different. I think there are other teams that have improved or will be improving far more than what the LEafs will be to even make Luongo worth grabbing.

As I posted in another thread I think there are only three spots open for the playoffs.

I don't like the idea of giving up good assets to get Luongo.

If he is bought out, then sure sign him up. BUt I am not giving away Kadri right before he takes his next step.

I think we sorta agree. The issues are far deeper than goalies.

 

[charliolemieux]

I don't make stuff up. No reason.


http://m.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/spurn_baby_spurn_w7ZnlNQzWiCEHtYADhkwrJ

That proves nothing.

Even the writer says:

I recognize it is not likely to happen.

So it means nothin. Just some hypothetical anti Burke rant.

 

[charliolemieux]

I think we sorta agree. The issues are far deeper than goalies.

I think the team is headed in the right direction and that we aren't far off, but people need to take a realistic look around the conference.

PIT, PHI, NYR, BOS & SE Winner are likely to take the top 5 spots in the east.

IS just adding an upgrade at goalie enough to Push the LEafs into a spot?

Or would Luongo be just enough for us to finish in the 9,10,11th spot again?

We might be better holding off one more year on grabbing a top goalie.

This is a young team, the only people wanting to rush things are the fans.

Luongo might be the reason we don't get a top C next draft. People need to think of that.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Then why did you just say it?

...that Luongo guarantees the Leafs (or a "crappy team") the playoffs.

You claimed that someone was expressing that notion. Who was it? In writing I see you referring to it.

So who expressed the notion (other than you)? This isn't a difficult question.

A simple question. One you don't want to answer because it's the typical "realist" schtick of throwing out an argument that didn't exist and holding others responsible for something that you and only you made up. If you didn't, you'd have no problem pulling up the quotes proffering the notion that Luongo guarantees anyone makes the playoffs.

So you can't provide me with any amount stating Luongo guarantees anything?

You're giving him hell after you've misread what he wrote?

You're funny...

 

[Canucks LB]

Luongo is downright hilarious on twitter right now.

Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS

First Canadiens game: January 19 vs Maple Leafs in Montreal.

Strombone ‏@strombone1

@RenLavoieRDS can you get me a couple tickets?

Luongo to the habs

 

[RogerRoeper*]

There are literally hundreds of posts on this board proclaiming that the only reason the Leafs were not a playoff team is due to goaltending.

Burke's buds are so funny.

When your goalies have trouble getting .900 save %, it does make people think goaltending is a big issue...

James Reimer in 2011-12' had a .921 save %, 6th best in the entire NHl. And guess what, they turned their season around.

The Leafs have had the worst goaltending post lockout in the entire NHL.

 

[Bomber0104]

When your goalies have trouble getting .900 save %, it does make people think goaltending is a big issue...

James Reimer in 2011-12' had a .921 save %, 6th best in the entire NHl. And guess what, they turned their season around.

The Leafs have had the worst goaltending post lockout in the entire NHL.

It's really never occurred to you that maybe the team in front of all these goalies the Leafs have had since 2005 are a problem?

Are you serious?

 

[RogerRoeper*]

It's really never occurred to you that maybe the team in front of all these goalies the Leafs have had since 2005 are a problem?

Are you serious?

Nope. Goaltending is the biggest issue. They won more once they got solid goaltending.

It's not the only issue, but it's easily the biggest.

 

[Bomber0104]

Nope. Goaltending is the biggest issue. They won more once they got solid goaltending.

It's not the only issue, but it's easily the biggest.

Well actually they won the most with Andrew Raycroft...and he had worse numbers than James Reimer..

So you obviously weren't watching the Leafs back then or perhaps more damningly weren't watching closely enough...

Kind of makes this whole "Toronto's defence is just fine" stance of yours a little suspect

 

[colchar]

I guess you missed the argument.

When was the last time a "young, proven #1 goalie" was traded?

Rask was traded as a very young prospect, it was 3 years before he became an NHL regular. I would put him in the "drafted and groomed" pile of guys... even though we drafted him Boston was largely responsible for his development into what he is today.

It was more a sarcastic crack about the Leafs trading away someone who would have rendered this whole Luongo situation moot.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Well actually they won the most with Andrew Raycroft

They were 20-10-5 with Reimer in net in his first season.

 

[Bomber0104]

They were 20-10-5 with Reimer in net in his first season.

He didn't play a whole season.

And thats what statisticians call a small sample size.

Are you really willing to take on a 12 year contract, and risk so much going off a hunch like that?

 

[topched]

It was more a sarcastic crack about the Leafs trading away someone who would have rendered this whole Luongo situation moot.

Maybe if the Isles hadn't traded away Luongo in the first place....

 

[Bomber0104]

Andrew Raycroft (2006-2007)

GP Min GA GAA W L OTL Svs SvPct SO
72 4108 205 2.99 37 25 9 1726 0.894 8 2

Wow...so even with inferior stats to James Reimer and Jonas Gustavsson last season...Andrew Raycroft managed to win more!

That must have meant our defence was great last year!

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Well actually they won the most with Andrew Raycroft...and he had worse numbers than James Reimer..

So you obviously weren't watching the Leafs back then or perhaps more damningly weren't watching closely enough...

Kind of makes this whole "Toronto's defence is just fine" stance of yours a little suspect

Yeah they were a better team. Raycroft was the reason they missed the playoffs. Who cares about 37 wins with a terrible .894 save %.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Andrew Raycroft (2006-2007)

GP Min GA GAA W L OTL Svs SvPct SO
72 4108 205 2.99 37 25 9 1726 0.894 8 2

Wow...so even with inferior stats to James Reimer and Jonas Gustavsson last season...Andrew Raycroft managed to win more!

That must have meant our defence was great last year!

Again, that was a pretty good team Raycroft had infront of him.

 

[Joey Hoser]

He didn't play a whole season.

And thats what statisticians call a small sample size.

It was a half season, it's not that small. And even if it is small, the point was that they Leafs win more when they get better goaltending. Duh. That's true whether the team in front sucks or not.

Are you really willing to take on a 12 year contract, and risk so much going off a hunch like that?

I didn't say anything about Luongo and am pretty wishy-washy on the idea of acquiring him. Quit attacking strawmen and discuss what people actually say.

 

[Bomber0104]

Again, that was a pretty good team Raycroft had infront of him.

Okay...so the team is not good now...is what you are saying....

Because our goalies had better stats than Raycroft but came in fifth last...

 

[RogerRoeper*]

When Reimer played great, "Too Small a Sample Size!".

When he struggled "He's Terrible!" (And he played less games last season than in his rookie year.

 

[RogerRoeper*]

Okay...so the team is not good now...is what you are saying....

Because our goalies had better stats than Raycroft but came in fifth last...

No it's not that good of a team. I think because I'm naming goaltending as the biggest issue, you think I'm saying with better goaltending they'd win a cup.

 

[Bomber0104]

It was a half season, it's not that small. And even if it is small, the point was that they Leafs win more when they get better goaltending. Duh. That's true whether the team in front sucks or not.

Not true. Raycroft was not a better goaltender statistically than James Reimer or Jonas Gustavsson and he won more.

Carey Price is a far better goaltender than both of them (perhaps Luongo too) and the Habs were in third last.

You're simply incorrect.

I didn't say anything about Luongo and am pretty wishy-washy on the idea of acquiring him. Quit attacking strawmen and discuss what people actually say.

Then why are you in this thread?

This is what we are talking about.

 

[Bomber0104]

No it's not that good of a team. I think because I'm naming goaltending as the biggest issue, you think I'm saying with better goaltending they'd win a cup.

Our goal is the Cup...there is no other reason to acquire Roberto Luongo and his contract other than to win a Cup....this is the goal of every team and we should make it ours as well.

Can you see Roberto Luongo winning a Cup in Toronto? Didn't work behind a great team in the Canucks...why would it work when you acknowledge the Leafs team is not very good at all...

You see what I'm getting at Roger?

Carey Price could only lead the Habs in third last.

The advantage of course is that he is very young and plenty of years ahead of him and Montreal's management to give him a team to play behind.

Luongo is 33 and realistically only has a few good seasons left and I am afraid by the time the Leafs position themselves to even come close to the Pat Quinn / Early JFJ / Sundin teams we had...he will be expired and thus no more effective than Andrew Raycroft.

 

[charliolemieux]

Well actually they won the most with Andrew Raycroft...and he had worse numbers than James Reimer..

So you obviously weren't watching the Leafs back then or perhaps more damningly weren't watching closely enough...

Kind of makes this whole "Toronto's defence is just fine" stance of yours a little suspect

When Raycroft was winning 37 games, how strong was the rest of the conference?

Not only did the LEafs have Sundin an co infront of Raycroft but PIT, and WAS still Sucked. ATL sucked. NYI Sucked. etc. Basically there were a bunch of teams that were available to be beaten up on.

That situation does not exist anymore.

While the Muskoka 5 hindered the LEafs progression into a rebuild other teams were stockpiling youth that has since come to fruition.

Even with LUongo I doubt this team makes the playoffs.

But your argument is is a smokescreen. THe League has evolved and changed and in the East in particular has overall become a much stronger group of teams.