Tim Stutzle vs Auston Matthews Contracts Included

[jbeck5]

The rookie goalie?? You have Claude giroux on your team. He has experience. Your captain is in his sixth season. Or I suppose you were supposed to use that cap space to BETTER your team!!!!!!

That's not answering the question.

The Leafs are +2 on the season and the sens are +5 on the season.

Yet one team has 12 total wins to 10 total losses yet the other team has 10 totals wins to 10 total losses.

Why do you think the Leafs have been able to amass an extra 2 wins despite not having as good of a +/- as the sens?

 

[Strangle]

What happened to "more than twice as valuable"?

There aren't 2 assists on every goal, and there are plenty of tap in goals that are setup by great passes. Goals that my daughter could score.

Did you read my post? Read it again, slowly

No he isn’t

Well, you obviously don’t watch hockey

Try google and some reading if you don’t have time to actually watch the games

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Did you read my post? Read it again, slowly

I did, here is what I read.

Goals are more than twice as important as assists are

That's a laughable assertion.

 

[ijuka]

Goals are more than twice as important as assists are.

Do you have the statistical analysis to reinforce this statement?

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Well, you obviously don’t watch hockey

Try google and some reading if you don’t have time to actually watch the games

Nah just not a Leafs fan

 

[TS Quint]

All of Matthews important goals and his legendary defense has lead to a 48.1% shot share and zero sum game 5 on 5.

Maybe he gets another individual award but he doesn’t play winning team hockey.

 

[NyQuil]

Goals are more than twice as important as assists are.

Exactly.

This is why Brady Tkachuk is better than Mitch Marner.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Did you read my post? Read it again, slowly



Well, you obviously don’t watch hockey

Try google and some reading if you don’t have time to actually watch the games

Have you seen some of his efforts in OT, your fans trash him in some of those games.

 

[Xspyrit]

Quarter of the season, with a lot of hockey left mind you:

Matthews: 22 GP, 16 G 9 A 25 P

Stutzle: 19 GP, 5 G 18 A 23 P

It’s a lot closer than some are willing to admit.

It's not close. Matthews will take 1.6 x more on the cap than Stutzle as soon as next season. And he's nowhere near 1.6 times better

It's 16 goals vs 5 goals.... Assist is hardly the same as a goal, especially secondaries. I know they have different roles, which is why they probably shouldn't be compared, but there are quite a few ppg players in the league, but not many pacing for 60 goals.

Boeser has 18 goals, Vatrano 14 goals, Brady has 13 goals in 20 games himself

Matthews has 0.73 GPG right now, Tkachuk has 0.65 GPG

So, considering that BT has a 8.2 AAV, is he ALSO more valuable than Mathews? Well, probably based on your comment.

Goals are more important everybody knows that

Aight, let's start a Brady Tkachuk vs Matthews poll then, contracts included of course.

This is a funny way of saying “for less than a full season, Stutzle isn’t top 10 in ppg”

Look, at some point, I don't even know what to answer to your type. You're basically all the same with a sophisticated mix of disingenuity, goal moving posts, lack of reading comprehension, stupidity, bias and simple ignorance.

It was purely statistical, if you can't take it at FACE VALUE and have to incorporate your gigantic biases into it, then it's your problem.

 

[Xspyrit]

Goals are more than twice as important as assists are.

Ok so including contracts,

Tkachuk, Boeser, Vatrano, Connor, Pastrnak, etc >> Matthews

I doubt you would understand it.

But yes, the point is that there was no point in saying ‘since he became a man, there are only this big list of players with a better PPG’

What is the point of trying to make … that point?

Big list? 10 players having a better PPG over a long stretch? lol you're ridiculous

I was not making a point, it's called bringing facts to a discussion, something that is probably way over your head

Would you like this fact better?

Tim Stutzle is 15th in PPG in the NHL since the start of the 2022-23 season (when he was 20 y/o), over 100 NHL games have been played (for each team)

But let me guess : 14 guys outproducing him is TOO BIG OF A LIST

What is the point right?

Seems obvious, the point is he has become one of the better producers in the league at a young age.

Wait, this kind of deduction requires at least a PHD

Exactly.

This is why Brady Tkachuk is better than Mitch Marner.

Imagine if you start taking CONTRACTS in consideration

 

[Strangle]

Do you have the statistical analysis to reinforce this statement?

You guys don’t read, do you?

1 goal = 2 assists (much of the time). Look at a box score once in awhile.

Matthews (goal), Marner (assist), rielly (assist)

2 assists = 1 goal

That’s how the points are distributed. The league awards two assists (most of the time) for every goal scored.

Exactly.

This is why Brady Tkachuk is better than Mitch Marner.

He might be, that would be a better discussion than this one

Have you seen some of his efforts in OT, your fans trash him in some of those games.

Our fans trash everyone in a game to game basis.

Matthew’s scores a lot of gwg, he’s on a 60g pace. Whoever is complaining is just complaining cause they need something to complain about

 

[ninetyeight]

Boeser has 18 goals, Vatrano 14 goals, Brady has 13 goals in 20 games himself

Matthews has 0.73 GPG right now, Tkachuk has 0.65 GPG

So, considering that BT has a 8.2 AAV, is he ALSO more valuable than Mathews? Well, probably based on your comment.

No, 16 goals is better than 13 goals. First of all evaluating players based on goals/caphit is a bit of ambiguous anyway. 1m player who scores 10goals doesn't equal 5m 50goals. It goes super logaritmic the higher we go and teams have their own cap structures and circumstances so it's not very comparable anyway. You really just want all your players under the cap scoring as much possible. Scoring more with lower cap hit doesn't really matter when it's gametime a goal is a goal.

Second, the whole argument was that the statline is supposedly close, not who is the better player now or in the future.

 

[GOilers88]

You guys don’t read, do you?

1 goal = 2 assists (much of the time). Look at a box score once in awhile.

Matthews (goal), Marner (assist), rielly (assist)

2 assists = 1 goal

That’s how the points are distributed. The league awards two assists (most of the time) for every goal scored.



He might be, that would be a better discussion than this one



Our fans trash everyone in a game to game basis.

Matthew’s scores a lot of gwg, he’s on a 60g pace. Whoever is complaining is just complaining cause they need something to complain about

Sorry but your logic on goals and assists doesn't make sense. You've just arbitrarily assigned values to goals and assists.

By the same logic, and goal with one assist would make them equally valuable, but a goal with two assists is suddenly twice as valuable.

 

[Xspyrit]

No, 16 goals is better than 13 goals. First of all evaluating players based on goals/caphit is a bit of ambiguous anyway. 1m player who scores 10goals doesn't equal 5m 50goals. It goes super logaritmic the higher we go and teams have their own cap structures and circumstances so it's not very comparable anyway. You really just want all your players under the cap scoring as much possible. Scoring more with lower cap hit doesn't really matter when it's gametime a goal is a goal.

Second, the whole argument was that the statline is supposedly close, not who is the better player now or in the future.

But Tkachuk has played 2 games less... so what if he scores another 2-3 goals in those games?

And what about cap hit? I mean, in a CAP era, of course cap pace has value... We have been in that reality for almost 20 years now and people... still... don't understand?


Of course, you can't compare support players cost per point with the top of your lineup but we're comparing top players here... not Mathieu Joseph vs Auston Matthews

 

[Korpse]

Sorry but your logic on goals and assists doesn't make sense. You've just arbitrarily assigned values to goals and assists.

By the same logic, and goal with one assist would make them equally valuable, but a goal with two assists is suddenly twice as valuable.

What about unassisted goals??? Do goals become worthless?

 

[Strangle]

Sorry but your logic on goals and assists doesn't make sense. You've just arbitrarily assigned values to goals and assists.

By the same logic, and goal with one assist would make them equally valuable, but a goal with two assists is suddenly twice as valuable.

It’s not arbitrary, there are more assists scored in the league than there are goals, as far as points go.

That assigns value on its own.

We aren’t talking about each individual play, we are talking about averages over time, and bulk stats.

What’s better to you? Let me put it this way, you’re obviously not understanding.

Would you value a center with 40 assists and no goals last year more than a center with 40 goals and no assists? If you were looking at a teams stat sheet, and you compared two centers on hockey reference, 40 assists player 1 and 40 goals player 2. Which do you value more?

As I’m typing this I’m realizing how ridiculous it is to even be having to have this conversation. I’m being trolled, aren’t I?

No one went nuts when Marner scored 69 assists, but everyone got super excited when McDavid scored 65 goals. I wonder why? Maybe because goals carry a lot more value?

 

[Strangle]

What about unassisted goals??? Do goals become worthless?

Use your head. There is no assist without a goal. Assists don’t go up on the scoreboard. No matter how sick the pass is, without someone scoring a goal, no matter how nice a setup it is, it doesn’t touch the stat sheet.

No one actually believes assists are as valuable as goals, you’re trolling.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Use your head. There is no assist without a goal. Assists don’t go up on the scoreboard. No matter how sick the pass is, without someone scoring a goal, no matter how nice a setup it is, it doesn’t touch the stat sheet.

No one actually believes assists are as valuable as goals, you’re trolling.

Ahhh good ol Leafsplaining.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Use your head. There is no assist without a goal. Assists don’t go up on the scoreboard. No matter how sick the pass is, without someone scoring a goal, no matter how nice a setup it is, it doesn’t touch the stat sheet.

No one actually believes assists are as valuable as goals, you’re trolling.

lol, just ruined your own argument there.

 

[NyQuil]

Use your head. There is no assist without a goal. Assists don’t go up on the scoreboard. No matter how sick the pass is, without someone scoring a goal, no matter how nice a setup it is, it doesn’t touch the stat sheet.

No one actually believes assists are as valuable as goals, you’re trolling.

I like this:

Who made this goal possible? Without the assist, there is no goal. This is how hockey works. The pass is just as, if not more so, important to the point going on the board.

Why does Hockey combine Goals and Assists together?

This is potentially the most curiously existential thread I've ever seen on this site.

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

I like this:

Why does Hockey combine Goals and Assists together?

This is potentially the most curiously existential thread I've ever seen on this site.

forums.hfboards.com

In before:

-Give your head a shake
-Learn to watch hockey

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I like this:

Why does Hockey combine Goals and Assists together?

This is potentially the most curiously existential thread I've ever seen on this site.

forums.hfboards.com

Okay, this is probably one of my favorite call outs ever.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I like this:

Why does Hockey combine Goals and Assists together?

This is potentially the most curiously existential thread I've ever seen on this site.

forums.hfboards.com

Oh wow, nice zinger lol, wouldn’t expect a come back now.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Oh wow, nice zinger lol, wouldn’t expect a come back now.

I think it's more likely he deletes his account lol

 

[Strangle]

I like this:

Why does Hockey combine Goals and Assists together?

This is potentially the most curiously existential thread I've ever seen on this site.

forums.hfboards.com

I actually remember writing that too lmfao