Tim Stutzle vs Auston Matthews Contracts Included

[Golden_Jet]

Or Formenton and Pinto..... oh wait.

Lol

 

[The90]

Or Tarasenko or Chychurn,

And not have enough money for pinto

There's no words... Please tell me you're just trolling...



Remember the reaction from my post #782 about PPG? Good luck with that table



Some people need a bit of time. I mean, we only have been in the cap era since 2005-06. Give it more time

Seriously, when will people understand that we're talking about the inherent value of cap space here?

The fact that it could be well or badly spent doesn't change the intrinsic value of cap space. Useless induction to answer this poll

But wait, I have probably typed too many complicated words already

You realize not a single person is wowing at those stats right?

 

[Xspyrit]

You realize not a single person is wowing at those stats right?

Which? This one?

Since turning 21 y/o on January 15th 2023, only McDavid, MacKinnon, Draisaitl, J. Hughes, Pastrnak, Makar, M.Tkachuk, Pettersson, Panarin and Kucherov have a better PPG than Tim Stutzle... so the 11th best PPG in the entire NHL since becoming a man...

I don't know, I find it pretty "wow"


Or the table Golden_Jet posted? If you don't find it "wow", then let me tell you that you have no freaking idea about this sport

 

[The90]

Which? This one?

Since turning 21 y/o on January 15th 2023, only McDavid, MacKinnon, Draisaitl, J. Hughes, Pastrnak, Makar, M.Tkachuk, Pettersson, Panarin and Kucherov have a better PPG than Tim Stutzle... so the 11th best PPG in the entire NHL since becoming a man...

I don't know, I find it pretty "wow"


Or the table Golden_Jet posted? If you don't find it "wow", then let me tell you that you have no freaking idea about this sport

He’s a good player dude. Nobody is arguing that. A narrow sample size where you cut it off halfway through a year and some puck possession stats isn’t making anyone bow to him lol

 

[Xspyrit]

He’s a good player dude. Nobody is arguing that. A narrow sample size where you cut it off halfway through a year and some puck possession stats isn’t making anyone bow to him lol

What does it have to do with "bow to him" Do you bow to Matthews?

All the facts presented in my post above clearly shows that he has been ELITE since last year, which is the point. That's the same the kind of stuff you'd see from Jack Hughes, for example.

Tim Stutzle is not just "a good player dude"

 

[The90]

What does it have to do with "bow to him" Do you bow to Matthews?

All the facts presented in my post above clearly shows that he has been ELITE since last year, which is the point. That's the same the kind of stuff you'd see from Jack Hughes, for example.

Tim Stutzle is not just "a good player dude"

Is anyone saying he’s not elite? No

 

[Sensatauro]

Only if you don’t don’t waste that cap space on shitty depth and prevent yourself from being able to Re sign your young 3c


How many zone entries per 60 needs to be taken into account too

Oh look, he who knows more then those involved stating garbage like it's a fact still

Or Formenton and Pinto..... oh wait.

Yeah Sens really can't sign Formenton for issues related to hockey. The sens couldn't sign Pinto as been shown, stated by the league's Commissioner, but go on stating garbage as "facts"

 

[The90]

Oh look, he who knows more then those involved stating garbage like it's a fact still


Yeah Sens really can't sign Formenton for issues related to hockey. The sens couldn't sign Pinto as been shown, stated by the league's Commissioner, but go on stating garbage as "facts"

Well the problem lies in that Pinto’s problems with the league came after he should have been signed and after the season started. It was only then the team and league came out with it. Everyone and their dog knows this.

 

[Sensatauro]

Well the problem lies in that Pinto’s problems with the league came after he should have been signed and after the season started. It was only then the team and league came out with it. Everyone and their dog knows this.

Weeeeeeeeee....

Because we the public found out later, that means they involved didn't know earlier. Doesn't matter that the people involved have stated they knew there was no contract to be signed, but again because the 90 didn't know, they clearly didn't know!!

 

[The90]

Weeeeeeeeee....

Because we the public found out later, that means they involved didn't know earlier. Doesn't matter that the people involved have stated they knew there was no contract to be signed, but again because the 90 didn't know, they clearly didn't know!!

And just because you found out later doesn’t mean the team didn’t too.

Literally nobody has stated they knew before the season. It was weeks into it that they announced and said they kept it quiet. They had their team signed since late July. You’re going to try and tell everyone they knew since late July? Come on man. Take the blinders off it’s embarrassing.

 

[MCR74]

Stutzle has the zone entries per 60 trophy wrapped up this season for sure.

Maybe we'll get to see those zone entries in the playoffs for once, but I doubt it.

 

[CornerStone61]

And not have enough money for pinto


You realize not a single person is wowing at those stats right?

Not the point of the thread though. In a vacuum player A being as productive or more while being paid 60% less is inherently more valuable than player B in a cap league. Toronto or Ottawa's cap situation has no bearing on the question despite you constantly trying to inject that into the conversation.

I'm sure if this question involved 2 players in a similar situation that are not on your favorite team though you'd be singing a different tune.

 

[Korpse]

Maybe we'll get to see those zone entries in the playoffs for once, but I doubt it.

Can’t help but think just getting to the playoffs is such a massive achievement for the leafs. Those extra 7 games mean a lot.

 

[NyQuil]

This thread is going to some interesting places.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

My take on this thread hasn't really changed. Matthews is clearly the better player, but it's a serious question when you factor in term and dollars.

Stützle locked in with for 3 extra years Ottawa until 2031, when he's 29. Matthews locked in with TOR until 2028, when he's 30.

Let's assume Matthews gets $15M in 5 years, with the cap increases and the fact that he'd be just turning 30, I think that's realistic for a perennial top goal scorer in the NHL.

So in the next 8 years (including this one), Matthews will be paid around $109.6M, where Stützle makes $66.8M.

Whether it should or not, team playoff success will be the real X-factor here. Matthews is 6/7 making the playoffs but 1/7 winning a round. Stützle's barely got a sniff of the playoffs last year and is 0/3 making it. If Ottawa does better than Toronto any of the next 5 years, which is very possible, Stützle will be a big part of it and sens fans will point to our best $5M player and make this argument pretty a pretty simple one. And then Matthews and Toronto could do better the following year and the "answer" changes again.

I have zero issue with the people saying they take Matthews. I do however have an issue with the people saying it's Matthews by a landslide. It's definitely super close at this point and will probably teeter totter a bit over the next 5 seasons.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

The sens couldn't sign Pinto as been shown, stated by the league's Commissioner, but go on stating garbage as "facts"

Am I remembering incorrectly that Pinto was in Ottawa during camp with an offer on the table?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Am I remembering incorrectly that Pinto was in Ottawa during camp with an offer on the table?

He was, that’s when he found it, he was going to be suspended, and left a day later.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

He was, that’s when he found it, he was going to be suspended, and left a day later.

So his side and the team were ready to sign the deal (or they were still actively negotiating) and the league shut it down?

 

[Golden_Jet]

So his side and the team were ready to sign the deal (or they were still actively negotiating) and the league shut it down?

Yes, When Sens got report before suspension announcement, Gary told team to stop negotiating.

 

[wetcoast]

This thread is going to some interesting places.

The contracts included part were bound to make the interesting places thing happen though.

People put too much value in the "extra" cap space and then always use it to the perfect best case argument when for the future it's an unknown really.

I love Stutzle but AM is simply the better player right now and by enough that I'd take him.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I love Stutzle but AM is simply the better player right now and by enough that I'd take him.

No one argues that
Matthew’s better player
Stutzle plus cap space is also better
They are both true

 

[Regal]

No one argues that
Matthew’s better player
Stutzle plus cap space is also better
They are both true

The “by enough” comment would imply he doesn’t agree with the second one

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Quarter of the season, with a lot of hockey left mind you:

Matthews: 22 GP, 16 G 9 A 25 P

Stutzle: 19 GP, 5 G 18 A 23 P

It’s a lot closer than some are willing to admit.

 

[ninetyeight]

Quarter of the season, with a lot of hockey left mind you:

Matthews: 22 GP, 16 G 9 A 25 P

Stutzle: 19 GP, 5 G 18 A 23 P

It’s a lot closer than some are willing to admit.

It's 16 goals vs 5 goals.... Assist is hardly the same as a goal, especially secondaries. I know they have different roles, which is why they probably shouldn't be compared, but there are quite a few ppg players in the league, but not many pacing for 60 goals.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Quarter of the season, with a lot of hockey left mind you:

Matthews: 22 GP, 16 G 9 A 25 P

Stutzle: 19 GP, 5 G 18 A 23 P

It’s a lot closer than some are willing to admit.

16 goals VS 5.

No It's not