Tim Stutzle vs Auston Matthews Contracts Included

[The90]

This seems like a desperate attempt at deflection. Let's get back to talking about how Stutzle is outscoring Matthews again.

It’s not wrong though. There’s no point claiming cap space is so valuable when you botch the space you have

 

[Sensatauro]

It’s not wrong though. There’s no point claiming cap space is so valuable when you botch the space you have

You have been proven so wrong and still you double down. Wtf man?!

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

It’s not wrong though. There’s no point claiming cap space is so valuable when you botch the space you have

It is wrong though, because this isn't a Toronto vs Ottawa thread, no matter how much you want it to be.

 

[The90]

You have been proven so wrong and still you double down. Wtf man?!

How have I? You made an assumption with 0 timeline. You have no idea when they knew. They could’ve not known till 4 games in and Dorion kept quiet. You have literally proven nothing.

It is wrong though, because this isn't a Toronto vs Ottawa thread, no matter how much you want it to be.

The whole premise of the thread is Stutzle and cap space, vs Matthews at a higher cap. I’m discussing the cap space portion. It literally is the conversation.

 

[Sensatauro]

How have I? You made an assumption with 0 timeline. You have no idea when they knew. They could’ve not known till 4 games in and Dorion kept quiet. You have literally proven nothing.


The whole premise of the thread is Stutzle and cap space, vs Matthews at a higher cap. I’m discussing the cap space portion. It literally is the conversation.

I literally gave you the quote from Bettman who stated they knew and was why he wasn't signed. Yet here you are saying they may not have known.

Grow up.

 

[Golden_Jet]

How does that relate to July when Tarasenko was signed?

Maybe it’s time to stop derailing the thread,

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

The whole premise of the thread is Stutzle and cap space, vs Matthews at a higher cap. I’m discussing the cap space portion. It literally is the conversation

You're discussing Ottawa's cap management, which is completely irrelevant.

 

[The90]

I literally gave you the quote from Bettman who stated they knew and was why he wasn't signed. Yet here you are saying they may not have known.

Grow up.

Yeah? When did they know. Oh. Ok. No list of that.

You're discussing Ottawa's cap management, which is completely irrelevant.

How is it irrelevant? It’s literally the team Stutzle plays on, and signed his contract with

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

How is it irrelevant? It’s literally the team Stutzle plays on, and signed his contract with

Because the thread is asking which player you would take. Ottawa's cap management has nothing to do with that. You know that, but are intent on derailing this thread because Stutzle is now outscoring Matthews, and you're terrified of addressing that.

 

[The90]

Playing chess with a pigeon. You are a loser.

Congrats, you are my second blocked user.

Not sure how that works. Just leave enough cap space for a 3c man. Shouldn’t be that big of a deal to admit they didn’t know it when they gave Tarasenko his deal, they didn’t know about Pinto.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Because the thread is asking which player you would take. Ottawa's cap management has nothing to do with that. You know that, but are intent on derailing this thread because Stutzle is now outscoring Matthews, and you're terrified of addressing that.

Leafs cap management and how Matthews contract fits in has been a major crux of this thread, so it's very weird to whine and become indignant when a Leafs fan mentions the Sens cap situation (ie. Stutzle's great contract vs Matthews 'bad' contract hasn't led to necessarily better team cap situations). I guess that's just HF, or maybe the whiskey.

Ottawa fans have already made up their minds, it seems very strange they make this thread every year now and feverishly tend to it all season waiting for a single Leaf fan to disagree so they can all pile on for a nice chuckle...because that's about as good as life gets in Sens land (not that it's any good in Leaf land).

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Leafs cap management and how Matthews contract fits in has been a major crux of this thread, so it's very weird to whine and become indignant when a Leafs fan mentions the Sens cap situation (ie. Stutzle's great contract vs Matthews 'bad' contract hasn't led to necessarily better team cap situations). I guess that's just HF, or maybe the whiskey.

No fan of either team should be addressing the other team's cap management. It's not relevant.

Ottawa fans have already made up their minds, it seems very strange they make this thread every year now and feverishly tend to it all season waiting for a single Leaf fan to disagree so they can all pile on for a nice chuckle...because that's about as good as life gets in Sens land (not that it's any good in Leaf land).

I'm not an Ottawa fan. This is just more deflection.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Not sure how that works. Just leave enough cap space for a 3c man. Shouldn’t be that big of a deal to admit they didn’t know it when they gave Tarasenko his deal, they didn’t know about Pinto.

Stop! You aren't allowed to mention anything pertaining to cap situations unless you're talking about how Matthews contract hurts the Leafs cap situation. Those are the rules Sens fans and the drunk guy in this thread have come up with and they need this thread to even begin to enjoy having a player like Stutzle (if he can't be favourably compared to a Leaf then they can't enjoy it) so please be respectful of their needs.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

No fan of either team should be addressing the other team's cap management. It's not relevant.


I'm not an Ottawa fan. This is just more deflection.

That would be fine but you only seem to appear in this thread and whine about it when one side does it, so you're statement rings false. The first paragraph was a direct response to you, the second paragraph was separate. Sorry I forget that people don't understand the idea of paragraphs separating different lines of thought.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That would be fine but you only seem to appear in this thread and whine about it when one side does it, so you're statement rings false. The first paragraph was a direct response to you, the second paragraph was separate. Sorry I forget that people don't understand the idea of paragraphs separating different lines of thought.

Funny how you're so focused on me instead of addressing the fact that Stutzle is once again outproducing Matthews while being younger and on a way better contract. This whole gambit of pretending that extra cap space isn't valuable is hilarious.

I think we call that deflection.

 

[Xspyrit]

its hypocritical if sens fans can't also acknowledge that their team managed their cap poorly this offseason. they needlessly left themselves no room to sign pinto.

Dorion was really bad at this job IMO but not signing Pinto was intentional, they knew about the investigation and of course had to keep it low profile. It's been reported all over the place that Pinto was grateful that the Senators didn't put him under the spotlight until the investigation was completed

Why not just choose this year if you want to know who is the best right now?

Are you sure?

Korpisalo is a career backup.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Korpisalo has been pretty good since his hip surgery in March 2022. He has been lights out this year despite modest stats. Goaltending is probably the hardest job in the NHL under a DJ Smith's coached team. They literally can only play in the offensive zone, which is why Ottawa is 3rd in GF/GP

The problem with Ottawa is the "team defense" concept. Their skill take over games and they can outscore anybody but they can't play with a lead and collapse until they gift wrap goals against

The answer is the same as it always was. If you don't count contracts, you gotta give the edge to Matthews.

If you count age and contract, it's hands down Stutzle.

Every day that passes, it is becoming more strange to see this thread not closed yet. It's not even close. Matthews makes 40% more this season and 60% more starting next year

 

[Xspyrit]

Stutzle looks like he's regaining his form. You have to wonder if he's going to outscore Matthews for a second consecutive season?

What a steal of a contract.

I'm one of Dorion's biggest critics but these Karlsson and Pageau trades, these Stutzle and Tkachuk contracts, the Chychrun trade and Sanderson's selection + contract were major homeruns (finding Zub was great too). Too bad he had no idea about asset management and had very low foresight.

Is it obscure to say that if you don’t manage the cap properly and can’t sign good young 3c’s, it doesn’t matter what goals /60 you have, if you can’t fit their contract anyways?

The fact that you have been explained the REALITY by multiple people but keep banging on that nail shows that nobody should take anything you say seriously. At some point, the earth is not flat no matter how much bias you have.

Whether you think he knew ahead or not, he quite literally could not be signed.

Now that is something else

You're like the king of logical fallacy. Extremely gullible too

It’s not wrong though. There’s no point claiming cap space is so valuable when you botch the space you have

Dorion made a million bad moves before. This instance was not one.

I think the last bad move was the DeBrincat situation, paid a price that seemed reasonable at the time but as it happened many times before, it blew up in his face with the return, etc.

I was very critical of the Paul for Joseph + 4th trade but even though Paul is a great player, Joseph looks absolutely fantastic this season. Was also very critical of the Gustavsson for Talbot trade but maybe not as bad right now., still a terrible trade for last season though.

None of Korpisalo and Tarasenko signings or how he handled the Pinto situation were bad moves.

All that being said, it doesn't even matter. the OP question is :

"Which player would YOU take, contracts included?"

Not who Pierre Dorion or Brad Treliving would take. It's an hypothetical, which player would you take. Matthews or Stutzle with 5 M$ cap space. We're not looking at the worst possible scenario of using that cap space but what is the VALUE of that cap space in the league today.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I focused on how you continually shut down one avenue of discussion when one side goes down that path, and say nothing when the other side has made that the primary point of contention in the whole thread; then you pack pedal and hedge like this and make up a strawman by pretending I was arguing against the idea of cap space being valuable.

Having extra cap space is inherently valuable, and trying to show how teams can waste cap space doesn't dispute that fact - Ottawa would be objectively worse without Tarasenko. On the flip side, a lack of cap space inherently limits a team's ability add depth, so I am less inclined to comment on posts that highlight this fact.

But this is all just an attempt to deflect from the fact that Stutzle is again outscoring Matthews.

 

[HSF]

Sens fan here...I take Matthews....

 

[Xspyrit]

Sens fan here...I take Matthews....

You would rather have Matthews and his 13.25 AAV contract next season over Stutzle and his 8.35 AAV for 7 more years? Are you ready to welcome back Dylan Gambrell?

It means you would trade Stutzle for Matthews straight up?

 

[BradyTkachucky]

Sens fan here...I take Matthews....

He is the better player, there's no denying it. His cap hit is the problem, heck the salary cap is the problem.

You would rather have Matthews and his 13.25 AAV contract next season over Stutzle and his 8.35 AAV for 7 more years? Are you ready to welcome back Dylan Gambrell?

It means you would trade Stutzle for Matthews straight up?

I wouldn't make that trade because it would kill us cap wise. If there was no salary cap, yes I would.

 

[HSF]

You would rather have Matthews and his 13.25 AAV contract next season over Stutzle and his 8.35 AAV for 7 more years? Are you ready to welcome back Dylan Gambrell?

It means you would trade Stutzle for Matthews straight up?

Ya, I think Matthews is very very good. His finishing ability is worth it and he is a solid two way player. That combination of size skill and finishing ability down the middle is probably top 3 in the league

Timmy has a bit to go at both ends of the rink and consistency but that's why he isn't getting paid top dollars yet. Matthews is a finished product ( he has had more time to develop)

 

[Xspyrit]

He is the better player, there's no denying it. His cap hit is the problem, heck the salary cap is the problem.


I wouldn't make that trade because it would kill us cap wise. If there was no salary cap, yes I would.

Ok so have you guys read the question in the first post of this thread? I mean, don't make the same silly mistake as Leafs fans did lol (although it's purely intentional for many)

Ya, I think Matthews is very very good. His finishing ability is worth it and he is a solid two way player. That combination of size skill and finishing ability down the middle is probably top 3 in the league

Timmy has a bit to go at both ends of the rink and consistency but that's why he isn't getting paid top dollars yet. Matthews is a finished product ( he has had more time to develop)

Ok but do you think Matthews is worth 1.5 Stutzles?

And keep in mind Stutzle is still 21 y/o. Matthews was not as a good offensively and defensively back then. It's at 22-23 that his game really took off.

For example in 2018-19, he had the 2nd highest xGA/60 among the Leafs forwards after 39 y/o Marleau and at the bottom of the league too

 

[keglu]

Stutzle is top 5 most valuable asset in NHL. There is nothing Matthews realistically can do to justify 50% higher contract. And you can expect additional 4 years of elite play with Stutzle on top of that.

 

[Sensatauro]

This thread is amazing. Because a certain someone not involved in the situation didn't know, that means the people involved also didn't know. Despite the people involved saying they all knew.

Guy continues to bite down that they didn't know, while actually believing everyone else is the idiot, because HE didn't know.

The Literal definition of Dunning-kruger going on here.

No executives in the NHL would trade Matthews for Stutzle straight up given the cap hits.

This fact doesn't mean Stutzle is the better overall player. As stated, by even multiple sens fans. No cap, no matter of contracts you would take Matthews.

Reality is, that's not the world or game we play. Contracts do in fact matter. Which is why Stutzle is the correct answer here.