Tim Stutzle vs Auston Matthews Contracts Included

[jbeck5]

Stutzle - G 3 | A1 7 | A2 7
Matthews - G 13 | A1 5 | A2 1

Not a lot of primary points for Stutzle this year, 10 vs 18.

Matthews is only slightly better in on-ice goal differential but like you pointed out, Toronto is only a +1 and Ottawa is +6, so relative to that, Matthews has helped his team much more.

Looks like Matthews is directly impacting scoring much more and helping his team win more.

Sounds like a bias leaf fan in love with Matthews trying to break down points to make his guy seem better.

Primary assist vs secondary assists doesn't mean anything without context, for example. You think it automatically assumes that the second assists was less involved in creating the play, but that is false. I've seen countless times where the second assist is the one that actually created the whole chance.

So maybe try coming with a more concrete argument than something we cant actually confirm makes any difference at all.

You don't know who of the 3 on a point was more important without looking at the goal and making a case by case argument.


That does nothing here though.

 

[notbias]

Which players on Ottawa are bad contracts?

Korpisalo and Chabot are the only bad ones.

Great! That will leave you lots leftover to shore up that defence.

They have 34 million to use next year, and likely 4 million of that is going to Nylander... this comment is idiotic.

They could re-sign Nylander, fill out the rest of the roster with prospects or AHL players and likely finish above Ottawa.

Sounds like a bias leaf fan in love with Matthews trying to break down points to make his guy seem better.

Primary assist vs secondary assists doesn't mean anything without context, for example. You think it automatically assumes that the second assists was less involved in creating the play, but that is false. I've seen countless times where the second assist is the one that actually created the whole chance.

So maybe try coming with a more concrete argument than something we cant actually confirm makes any difference at all.

You don't know who of the 3 on a point was more important without looking at the goal and making a case by case argument.


That does nothing here though.

We can assume secondary assists generally are less important than the person passing to the scorer, it is not hard to figure out.

Regardless, Stutzle not scoring seems like a major issue.

 

[jbeck5]

Korpisalo and Chabot are the only bad ones.



They have 34 million to use next year, and likely 4 million of that is going to Nylander... this comment is idiotic.



We can assume secondary assists generally are less important than the person passing to the scorer, it is not hard to figure out.

Regardless, Stutzle not scoring seems like a major issue.

So you're saying korpisalo at 4 million with a .907sv% is bad value

But

Samsonov with at 3.5 million with an .870sv% isn't bad value?

Would that not be your bias once again coming through here?

 

[notbias]

So you're saying korpisalo at 4 million with a .907sv% is bad value

But

Samsonov with at 3.5 million with an .870sv% isn't bad value?

Would that not be your bias once again coming through here?

So despite these bad contracts, Matthews and the top half of the roster are able to help the Leafs perform better than the Sens with their amazing cap management? You're helping prove my point.

Also, Samsanov is bad right now, won't say differently.

The difference between the two in this 15 games sample size is their past seasons look very different.

Korpisalo is a career backup.

 

[jbeck5]

Korpisalo and Chabot are the only bad ones.



They have 34 million to use next year, and likely 4 million of that is going to Nylander... this comment is idiotic.

They could re-sign Nylander, fill out the rest of the roster with prospects or AHL players and likely finish above Ottawa.



We can assume secondary assists generally are less important than the person passing to the scorer, it is not hard to figure out.

Regardless, Stutzle not scoring seems like a major issue.

See, that's where your argument got weak...when you made assumptions. You can't actually say the secondary assist is less important unless you've seen the specific play and can safely make that call.

As a blanket statement, it isn't accurate or proof of anything really. You would need to back it up by showing the points and how they affected the goal.

I've played enough hockey to see countless more important secondary assists that it must be in the thousands. It's not a conclusive argument in any way.

So despite these bad contracts, Matthews and the top half of the roster are able to help the Leafs perform better than the Sens with their amazing cap management? You're helping prove my point.

Also, Samsanov is bad right now, won't say differently.

The difference between the two in this 15 games sample size is their past seasons look very different.

Korpisalo is a career backup.

So are you admitting you're statement that the Leafs don't have any bad contracts while the sens do, is an incorrect statement?

You were wrong.

At least you admit it.

Ok, let's look at their past season.

Samsonov last year? .919sv%

Korpisalo? .921sv %

So what you're going to do in your argument is go back to multiple years ago to show that Samsonov is better right now?

Have fun with that.

 

[notbias]

See, that's where your argument got weak...when you made assumptions. You can't actually say the secondary assist is less important unless you've seen the specific play and can safely make that call.

As a blanket statement, it isn't accurate or proof of anything really. You would need to back it up by showing the points and how they affected the goal.

I've played enough hockey to see countless more important secondary assists that it must be in the thousands. It's not a conclusive argument in any way.

You're right, they split up A1 and A2 because they are the exact same and in general carry the same weight.

It is also why they track A3, A4, and A5.

I've played enough hockey as well to know you're grasping at straws.

 

[jbeck5]

You're right, they split up A1 and A2 because they are the exact same and in general carry the same weight.

It is also why they track A3, A4, and A5.

I've played enough hockey as well to know you're grasping at straws.

They keep track of everything. That isn't an indicator of how important a stat is.

If you want to follow your argument, you would argue that 99% of places just show you assists as 1 . Why don't you make that argument if you want to be consistent.

Since you're argument was that the way they track things determines the importance of the stat, then 99% of sites think they're equally important.

Make that argument if you want to stay consistent with your logic.

Let's see you make the argument that all assists have the same value. If not , then you're admitting how they keep stats is irrelevant to how important they are compared to other stats.

 

[notbias]

See, that's where your argument got weak...when you made assumptions. You can't actually say the secondary assist is less important unless you've seen the specific play and can safely make that call.

As a blanket statement, it isn't accurate or proof of anything really. You would need to back it up by showing the points and how they affected the goal.

I've played enough hockey to see countless more important secondary assists that it must be in the thousands. It's not a conclusive argument in any way.



So are you admitting you're statement that the Leafs don't have any bad contracts while the sens do, is an incorrect statement?

You were wrong.

At least you admit it.

Ok, let's look at their past season.

Samsonov last year? .919sv%

Korpisalo? .921sv %

So what you're going to do in your argument is go back to multiple years ago to show that Samsonov is better right now?

Have fun with that.

At least we know you can't read dates correctly... Korpisalo played for 2 teams last year.

He has a career .904 and excluding this year, he has been below .900 50% of the years he has played... That doesn't scream great signing.

I don't even think Samsanov will be the starter by the end of the year, but his career stats are better.

I'm pretty much done with the conversation at this point, I feel like I am losing brain cells talking down.

 

[jbeck5]

At least we know you can't read dates correctly... Korpisalo played for 2 teams last year.

He has a career .904 and excluding this year, he has been below .900 50% of the years he has played... That doesn't scream great signing.

I don't even think Samsanov will be the starter by the end of the year, but his career stats are better.

I'm pretty much done with the conversation at this point, I feel like I am losing brain cells talking down.

Career stats are useless when discussing who's better presently.

 

[notbias]

Career stats are useless when discussing who's better presently.

Woll is the best

Forsberg is the worst

 

[jbeck5]

Woll is the best

Forsberg is the worst

Woll didn't seem that good against Ottawa tbh. Him and korpisalo have almost identical save percentage, and sens fans have had their share of shitting on korpisalo already, so woll can't be that good. Like, Samsonov and korpisalo both provided better goaltending last year than woll is this year, while korpisalo is matching it this year.

Never said Forsberg or any Ottawa goalie is good.

I just don't think Toronto's goaltending is any better generally..if it has been, it's been ever so marginal.

Basically, I don't think goaltending is any factor any team can dunk on the other....which is why I thought it was funny when you mentioned korpisalo while having Samsonov. It's not a very strong or convincing argument.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Woll is the best

Forsberg is the worst

Bless you for keeping this guy company.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Which players on Ottawa are bad contracts?

Lots of good contracts on Ottawa. The Chabot one isn’t great though.

 

[KevinRedkey]

If you think your choice is correct, then you probably have an actual reason for believing it. Mentioning obscure nonsense to back it up has absolutely nothing to do with why you thought that to begin with, and has no bearing on proving or changing anyone's opinions. It's called confirmation bias.

Exaggerated example:
My guy has better goals/60 on Tuesdays in January, on non-leap years. This proves I'm right!

This isn't Mike Tyson vs Tony Hawk in a boxing match. There's no flat out wrong answer. The mental gymnastics people go through to try and 'prove' their guy is better is flat out wild in this thread.

 

[swiftwin]

The answer is the same as it always was. If you don't count contracts, you gotta give the edge to Matthews.

If you count age and contract, it's hands down Stutzle.

 

[Sensatauro]

Ok, then use this year.

Matthews 19 points in 15 games.
Stutzle 17 points in 13 games

Stutzle 20 points in 14 games.

He's now outscoring Matthews in less games played.

Pretty good...yet we got posters saying no way Stu is better.

HF is great

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Stutzle looks like he's regaining his form. You have to wonder if he's going to outscore Matthews for a second consecutive season?

What a steal of a contract.

 

[The90]

If you think your choice is correct, then you probably have an actual reason for believing it. Mentioning obscure nonsense to back it up has absolutely nothing to do with why you thought that to begin with, and has no bearing on proving or changing anyone's opinions. It's called confirmation bias.

Exaggerated example:
My guy has better goals/60 on Tuesdays in January, on non-leap years. This proves I'm right!

This isn't Mike Tyson vs Tony Hawk in a boxing match. There's no flat out wrong answer. The mental gymnastics people go through to try and 'prove' their guy is better is flat out wild in this thread.

Is it obscure to say that if you don’t manage the cap properly and can’t sign good young 3c’s, it doesn’t matter what goals /60 you have, if you can’t fit their contract anyways?

 

[Sensatauro]

Is it obscure to say that if you don’t manage the cap properly and can’t sign good young 3c’s, it doesn’t matter what goals /60 you have, if you can’t fit their contract anyways?

You still stuck on the fallacy of not being able to sign Pinto despite you being shown that that's fake news. Classic HF

 

[The90]

You still stuck on the fallacy of not being able to sign Pinto despite you being shown that that's fake news. Classic HF

Whether you think he knew ahead or not, he quite literally could not be signed.

 

[Sensatauro]

Whether you think he knew ahead or not, he quite literally could not be signed.

Which is why they signed other players. So while you say mismanaged cap, it's literally the exact opposite. We didn't not sign him because of cap issues. I explained that earlier to zero reply because you know you're flapping your gums emptily. But you keep doing you bud. Just because you repeat the lie 1000x doesn't mean it's true. Take the L and move on.

 

[The90]

Which is why they signed other players. So while you say mismanaged cap, it's literally the exact opposite. We didn't not sign him because of cap issues. I explained that earlier to zero reply because you know you're flapping your gums emptily. But you keep doing you bud. Just because you repeat the lie 1000x doesn't mean it's true. Take the L and move on.

You explained your revisionist history that you guys came up with that’s for sure. They never knew he was dealing with that in July. Sorry. Just not accurate.

 

[Sensatauro]

You explained your revisionist history that you guys came up with that’s for sure. They never knew he was dealing with that in July. Sorry. Just not accurate.

I mean Pinto has literally thanked Pierre for taking the heat from the situation because he couldn't sign anything. But you keep talking shit bro

Also here's a quote from Bettman on why Pintos suspension counts while he's not technically under contract...

My guess is he doesn't have a contract because of the suspension," Bettman said. "People knew that he was being investigated

But no, YOU the 90 knows what's up..laughable you are

 

[The90]

I mean Pinto has literally thanked Pierre for taking the heat from the situation because he couldn't sign anything. But you keep talking shit bro!

How does that relate to July when Tarasenko was signed?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

How does that relate to July when Tarasenko was signed?

This seems like a desperate attempt at deflection. Let's get back to talking about how Stutzle is outscoring Matthews again.