Tim Stutzle vs Auston Matthews Contracts Included

[NyQuil]

Stutzle read what was written about him lately, and he took it personally.

 

[Korpse]

Stutzle read this thread before the game. He's taking it to the Leafs, 1g 2a and just dangling.

Edit: make that 4 points.

Probably the first game of the year where he looked like himself. He’s been a slow starter.

 

[swiftwin]

Matthews was invisible tonight. Stuzle was skating circles around the Leafs.

Obviously, the edge goes to Matthews if you don't count contracts. But contracts included, it's Stutzle.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Probably the first game of the year where he looked like himself. He’s been a slow starter.

Pretty crazy considering he's got 15p in 11gp.

 

[Golden_Jet]

That’s debatable. League scoring has gone up since then. Stutzle was in a 3-way tie for 16th in PPG, and was 21st in GPG. Matthews tied for 21st in PPG and tied for 7th in GPG.

At least point accurate numbers
GPG Matthew’s 13th not 7th

NHL Scoring Leaders 2022-2023

NHL scoring leaders and demographics breakdown in the 2022-2023 season. Player stats, nationality and age distributions, draft rounds of players in the 2022-2023 NHL season.

www.quanthockey.com

 

[Regal]

At least point accurate numbers
GPG Matthew’s 13th not 7th

NHL Scoring Leaders 2022-2023

NHL scoring leaders and demographics breakdown in the 2022-2023 season. Player stats, nationality and age distributions, draft rounds of players in the 2022-2023 NHL season.

www.quanthockey.com

Should probably read what season was being discussed

 

[Sens9292]

In Stutzles career so far he’s averaged 28 goals and 70 points per 82 games.

In Matthews’ career so far he’s averaged 52 goals and 93 points per 82 games.

Typical Leaf fan post, on pace and averages

 

[PainForShane]

The more this season goes on the more I lean Stutzle.

With an extra 5m in long term cap space, Leafs would've (or at least should've) signed a non-elite goalie to a 3 or 4 year contract. Or better yet traded for Hellebuyck and found the money to keep him by not re-signing Max Domi or something.

Would've been a better team, even considering Matthews is scoring a ton of goals.

More specifically, having Stutz and Hellebuyck (and not Matthews or Klingberg) would undeniably be better for this team unless you actually believe some combination of Woll / Samsonov will be able to steal a game or two every single round in the playoffs without costing you any. Possible, but at this stage expecting something like that seems extremely unwise

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Not very likely because in a total redraft there isn't any money for FA everyone gets drafted so the idea is to get the best players, especially in the first round.

In the later rounds there will still be good players that slip because teams can't take on their cap. That's the whole point of taking the guy who might not be as good but is $5M cheaper.

 

[Xspyrit]

The logical fallacy here that most voters are using is determining that cap is the most important thing a player brings to the table.

To these poll voters, no performance can ever be worth a higher cap hit. Because cap > all

And that’s just a bullshit premise.

There's no logical fallacy in that, there's just people who have no idea what maths are and what they represent... We're not talking about a 20% difference, we'[re talking about a 60% difference

It's not Stutzle vs Matthews, It's Stutzle + 6/10 of a Stutzle vs Matthews

Well said.

What good is saving $5M when your team never makes the post-season?

The Senators being stuck with the worst GM/coaching staff combo in the league and the million of injuries/problems is irrelevant to the discussion. Always important to refer to the premise of the poll... which can be found in post #1

Congrats on posting a list of guys with fewer Rockets than Matthews. He's ahead of Ovechkin in career GPG at the same point, but sure he's no Mikko Rantanen when it comes to scoring goals I guess. Keep holding onto last year as the only thing that matters, meanwhile he's on pace to make it 3 Rockets in 4 years.

I guess this could be some some sort of argument (?) if I was not the ONE who made this thread and actually voted "801-850 goals"

How many career goals can Matthews realistically score in that scenario?

Auston Matthews turned 25 years old last week. He has scored 259 goals so far, despite covid and injuries. How much more do you think he can realistically score IF he plays another 14 years and stay relatively healthy? Let's say he plays another 1066 games, which is 13 seasons of 82 games. All...

forums.hfboards.com

I'm sorry if the FACTS I have presented don't fit your narrative. Based on this, Matthews has not been the only Elite goal scorer since last season.

Honestly, yes a concern. But it’s always been a concern and somehow it always works out. Ironically ottawa was the team that couldn’t sign their third line centre with Stutzle’s contract.

Are you living under a rock? Pinto is suspended... Or is it that you... still don't get that not signing him was intentional? I mean, seriously?

 

[wetcoast]

In the later rounds there will still be good players that slip because teams can't take on their cap. That's the whole point of taking the guy who might not be as good but is $5M cheaper.

The thing is that I would prefer to have the better 2 way center on the 1st line than the better 3rd line player.

 

[The90]

There's no logical fallacy in that, there's just people who have no idea what maths are and what they represent... We're not talking about a 20% difference, we'[re talking about a 60% difference

It's not Stutzle vs Matthews, It's Stutzle + 6/10 of a Stutzle vs Matthews



The Senators being stuck with the worst GM/coaching staff combo in the league and the million of injuries/problems is irrelevant to the discussion. Always important to refer to the premise of the poll... which can be found in post #1



I guess this could be some some sort of argument (?) if I was not the ONE who made this thread and actually voted "801-850 goals"

How many career goals can Matthews realistically score in that scenario?

Auston Matthews turned 25 years old last week. He has scored 259 goals so far, despite covid and injuries. How much more do you think he can realistically score IF he plays another 14 years and stay relatively healthy? Let's say he plays another 1066 games, which is 13 seasons of 82 games. All...

forums.hfboards.com

I'm sorry if the FACTS I have presented don't fit your narrative. Based on this, Matthews has not been the only Elite goal scorer since last season.



Are you living under a rock? Pinto is suspended... Or is it that you... still don't get that not signing him was intentional? I mean, seriously?

Oh yeah Pinto being suspended is for sure why he didn’t play games…. Before he was suspended. Nice work man! Good argument!

 

[notbias]

Typical Leaf fan post, on pace and averages

Ottawa is on pace to miss the playoffs AGAIN, despite the summer of Dorion 2.0.

Stutzle, stud 1C
Sanderson, Norris conversation
Tkachuk, unicorn power forward
Too many other 1Ds to count
Look at the depth they have! Giroux is PPG.

Honestly, Leafs suck this year (thanks Brad), but it is an anomaly, this is just the norm for Ottawa.

It is amazing that fans can keep posting how great their team is but they always suck.

 

[Xspyrit]

Oh yeah Pinto being suspended is for sure why he didn’t play games…. Before he was suspended. Nice work man! Good argument!

Wait, you really think all parties included were not aware of the situation way before the suspension?

 

[The90]

Wait, you really think all parties included were not aware of the situation way before the suspension?

Lol

 

[CanadienShark]

Stu. He's not the better player, but he's a superstar in his own right and has a sweet contract. Matthews is a bit better, but doesn't have a good contract at all.

 

[Xspyrit]

Lol

lol because you have nothing to say as reality just hit. I have seen this movie a million times

 

[The90]

lol because you have nothing to say as reality just hit. I have seen this movie a million times

Lol was because I literally lol’d at how ridiculous your post was. Carry on

 

[KevinRedkey]

Stutzle is on pace for 82 assists and 21 goals.
Matthews is on pace for 82 goals and 38 assists.
I think it's fair to assume both players goal-to-assist ratio will even out at least a little bit.

If we keep the point pace for both (103 and 120 respectively) - does anyone change their vote at all?

 

[Xspyrit]

Lol was because I literally lol’d at how ridiculous your post was. Carry on

Suspension was announced on October 26th, when the Sens had played 6 games. You said :

"Oh yeah Pinto being suspended is for sure why he didn’t play games…. Before he was suspended"

So how much time do you think it took for this to take place? How long do you think the investigation lasted?


It's known that the NHLPA was fully aware of this situation and has been negotiating with the league on Pinto’s behalf in this settlement. These things are not settled and investigated in the matter of days. You'd have to be pretty gullible to think that all parties involved were not aware a while ago. Public have very little access to the real information

 

[The90]

Suspension was announced on October 26th, when the Sens had played 6 games. You said :

"Oh yeah Pinto being suspended is for sure why he didn’t play games…. Before he was suspended"

So how much time do you think it took for this to take place? How long do you think the investigation lasted?


It's known that the NHLPA was fully aware of this situation and has been negotiating with the league on Pinto’s behalf in this settlement. These things are not settled and investigated in the matter of days. You'd have to be pretty gullible to think that all parties involved were not aware a while ago. Public have very little access to the real information

No, that’s what you’re assuming and trying to save face with. He missed 6 games for contract issues. You’re pretending otherwise.

 

[Golden_Jet]

No, that’s what you’re assuming and trying to save face with. He missed 6 games for contract issues. You’re pretending otherwise.

Senators were told before prior to training camp there was an investigation ongoing, and that the investigation had been ongoing for a few months.

Senators we’re told around opening night or day after, not to discuss contract anymore by the league, Pinto left town a day later.

 

[geebster]

It's an interesting vote, there is a gap between the players and their salaries match that, one is younger with a longer deal and is undoubtedly a good player. But Stutzle has a lot to prove to be compared to Matthews. As I said in preseason when some Sens fans said he was better than Pettersson, Stutzle could potentially be on that tier of star very soon, but he isn't there yet.

I voted Matthews but the arguments for Stutzle aren't crazy. If the argument is who is the better player that's so obviously Matthews there isn't a debate but with contract age salary cap etc factored in an argument could be made.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Matthews.
He's capable of multiple hat tricks a season, has already scored 60, has an MVP, a Rocket, had a four goal first game in NHL. He also seemingly scores a hat trick in every home opener.
Stutzle has...none of that?
If Stutzle scores 60 this year and gets an MVP and Richard I'll vote for him.

 

[canuckking1]

Funny enough, despite all the clowning he's getting from Leafs fans in this thread, he has a higher PPG to start the season, even if he does have far fewer goals