Tim Stutzle vs Auston Matthews Contracts Included

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

About the same relevance of taking a career low vs career high comparison.

You think last year was Matthews career low? It's his 3rd best season in terms of PPG lol. Honestly you're giving leaf fans a bad name with nonsense like that.

If you can use Stutzle’s career high, why not include the previous 82 that includes Matthews’? Don’t answer that, we know the answer already.

Because Stutzle has only played 3 seasons, and he was a teenager for 2 of them. Lol "career high". I can't believe I have to explain this to you. Well, actually I can believe it, considering how laughably inaccurate the first sentence of your post was.

How about we use each of their 3rd worst seasons?

Matthews 68gp 37g 73p
Stutzle 78gp 39g 90p

 

[The90]

You think last year was Matthews career low? It's his 3rd best season in terms of PPG lol. Honestly you're giving leaf fans a bad name with nonsense like that.


Because Stutzle has only played 3 seasons, and he was a teenager for 2 of them. Lol "career high". I can't believe I have to explain this to you. Well, actually I can believe it, considering how laughably inaccurate the first sentence of your post was.

How about we use each of their 3rd worst seasons?

Matthews 68gp 37g 73p
Stutzle 78gp 39g 90p

Such disingenuous nonsense lol

I’m not concerned whatsoever that you have an agenda you’re pushing. Matthews is the significantly better player and that’s good enough for me. I’d you need to twist and turn and argument that much to make yourself feel better you go right ahead.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Such disingenuous nonsense lol

You claimed last season was Matthews' career low, and you claim I'm being disingenuous?

I’m not concerned whatsoever that you have an agenda you’re pushing.

What possible agenda could I have? I've been a huge Matthews fan way back before he was drafted. It's awesome having elite American centers in the league.

Matthews is the significantly better player and that’s good enough for me. I’d you need to twist and turn and argument that much to make yourself feel better you go right ahead.

Stutzle was at least as good if not better at the same age and last year.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

In Stutzles career so far he’s averaged 28 goals and 70 points per 82 games.

In Matthews’ career so far he’s averaged 52 goals and 93 points per 82 games.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

All thread we have heard how Stutzle is going to eclipse or somehow is as good as AM (becasue AM had an off year) based stricytly on counting stats.

And? We're 10 games into the season, it could very well happen.

AM is the superior player and by quite a bit and I love Stutzle.

Most of the push of this thread is for obvious non hockey reasons.

I think Matthews is probably a bit better at this point, but it's very close.

As for the inference of Marner you should and do know better than that.

You don't think playing with Marner helps Matthews? The numbers suggest they both benefit a fair amount from playing with each other. His P/60 jumps from 2.96 to 3.20, and his ixG/60 jumps from 1.10 to 1.44 with Marner on the ice over the last 3 years. Obviously Matthews is terrific on his own but you can't discount the value of having a world class playmaker on your wing.

In Stutzles career so far he’s averaged 28 goals and 70 points per 82 games.

In Matthews’ career so far he’s averaged 52 goals and 93 points per 82 games.

Career averages are surely relevant to this discussion, good one.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Something funny about claiming Leaf players are overpaid after scoring 40 goals and bringing the Leafs from a decade of no playoffs to a yearly playoff team, and yet some fans are of a team who gave their entire core overpayments without doing either of those things.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Career averages are surely relevant to this discussion, good one.

Career averages are absolutely relevant. Not sure why you’re fighting so hard and jumping through so many hoops to try and prove your point that you think Stutzles better lol.

No disrespect to Stutzle he’s a fine player, but Matthews has averaged over 50 goals per 82 games in his career so far. Scoring goals is the hardest thing to do. He’s also an elite 2 way centre.

 

[ijuka]

Career averages are absolutely relevant. Not sure why you’re fighting so hard and jumping through so many hoops to try and prove your point that you think Stutzles better lol.

No disrespect to Stutzle he’s a fine player, but Matthews has averaged over 50 goals per 82 games in his career so far. Scoring goals is the hardest thing to do. He’s also an elite 2 way centre.

Career averages aren't very relevant, because just because a player became good quicker, doesn't mean he's better now or in the future. It's a bad statistic to use.

 

[Craig Button]

Why have Auston Matthews when you can have Tim Stutzle and Drake Batherson?

 

[HockeyVirus]

Career averages aren't very relevant, because just because a player became good quicker, doesn't mean he's better now or in the future. It's a bad statistic to use.

And just because a player scored more points in 1 season it doesn't mean they are better or even comparable.

Stuzle is god awful defensively as well which is ignored in this thread for whatever reason. Likely because the gap defensively between the two is as big as the goal scoring gap

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Career averages aren't very relevant, because just because a player became good quicker, doesn't mean he's better now or in the future. It's a bad statistic to use.

Whatever, you’ll all be arguing in circles. For me, I’m taking the clear cut better player regardless of cap savings. Most organizations waste the extra space anyway.

 

[Craig Button]

Career averages aren't very relevant, because just because a player became good quicker, doesn't mean he's better now or in the future. It's a bad statistic to use.

"Reality isn't relevant, Just because reality is reality doesn't mean it's reality. It's bad to think reality is real"

 

[LivingRentFree]

Yeah and once you include defensive metrics, it’s overrrrrr.

"Reality isn't relevant, Just because reality is reality doesn't mean it's reality. It's bad to think reality is real"

Ijuka was also one of the posters that was ADAMANT that Laine was better than Matthews.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Why have Auston Matthews when you can have Tim Stutzle and Drake Batherson?

Or Stutzle and Tarasenko

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Career averages are absolutely relevant. Not sure why you’re fighting so hard and jumping through so many hoops to try and prove your point that you think Stutzles better lol.

No disrespect to Stutzle he’s a fine player, but Matthews has averaged over 50 goals per 82 games in his career so far. Scoring goals is the hardest thing to do. He’s also an elite 2 way centre.

Please explain to me how Stutzle's production as a teenager is at all relevant to the player he is today

 

[Xspyrit]

13 goals to 2 goals, lmao at "producing 40% more" like that's a proper way to frame their offensive value

Ok so goals and that's it? It decides everything I guess

Aight let's make stupid arguments

Brock Boeser + J.T. Miller duo is outscoring Auston Matthews 17 to 13 goals!

($6,650,000 + $8,000,000) = $14,650,000 vs $11,640,250

They only cost 26% more but produce 31% more!

Therefore, by this undisputable logic, we should rather have Miller + Boeser

Kucherov + Hagel who cost 11 M$ have scored 17 goals so far!

Konecny + Farabee who cost 10.5 M$ have scored 15 goals so far!

I have an even better one :

Frank Vatrano + Mason McTavish who cost $4,544,167 have scored 15 goals so far!

Therefore Vatrano + McTavish >>> Matthews

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Please explain to me how Stutzle's production is at all relevant to the player he is today

2 goals 11points in 10 games = 16.2 goals 90 points per 82.

Sure he’s improved the last couple years but he’s still nowhere near Matthews’ level. Once you bring in their two way abilities the gap widens.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Ok so goals and that's it? It decides everything I guess

Aight let's make stupid arguments

Brock Boeser + J.T. Miller duo is outscoring Auston Matthews 17 to 13 goals!

($6,650,000 + $8,000,000) = $14,650,000 vs $11,640,250

They only cost 26% more but produce 31% more!

Therefore, by this undisputable logic, we should rather have Miller + Boeser

Kucherov + Hagel who cost 11 M$ have scored 17 goals so far!

Konecny + Farabee who cost 10.5 M$ have scored 15 goals so far!

I have an even better one :

Frank Vatrano + Mason McTavish who cost $4,544,167 have scored 15 goals so far!

Therefore Vatrano + McTavish >>> Matthews

Are you okay? I never said goals are everything. Completely ignoring the goal scoring difference between Matthews and Stutzle when Matthews is the best goal scorer in the world is certainly a choice tho

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

2 goals 11points in 10 games = 16.2 goals 90 points per 82.

Sure he’s improved the last couple years but he’s still nowhere near Matthews’ level. Once you bring in their two way abilities the gap widens.

Please explain to me how Stutzle's production as a teenager is at all relevant to the player he is today

 

[swiftwin]

Still Stutzle

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Please explain to me how Stutzle's production as a teenager is at all relevant to the player he is today

You can try and twist it any way you want, fact is Matthews is just a way more impactful player.

They both started at 19.

Stutzles first 220 games:

75 goals 188 points -49 40.1 F%

Matthews first 212 games:

112 goals 205 points +18 50.6 F%

This was all before Matthews exploded for multiple rockets and an MVP. Stutzle has a long way to go before he even enters the conversation. I’m not sure why you even care so much lol.

 

[Xspyrit]

Let's broaden the sample to the start of last year:

88gp 41g 101p
86gp 53g 103p

How is it possible that the goal scorer has more goals than the playmaker?

I guess Caufield > Marner

Since Feb. 10th 2022 : 52 goals in 95 games for Caufield, 54 goals in 130 games for Marner

I mean, how bad a contract can be if you pay 10.9 M$ to get 2 more goals in 35 more games than the guy who makes 7.85 M$?

Yes if you "broaden the sample size" to make the vast majority of the sample Matthews down year when he was hurt, the numbers do look closer. But it seems like this year will be a lot closer to his 2nd and 1st place Hart seasons.

What if Stutzle was having a "down start of the season"? Would that argument work the other way or it's a one way street?

And it's not just Stutzle, it's pretty hard to perform in Ottawa considering coaching and management's context

Yeah but think about the cap savings, they’re giving Ottawa such a well rounded team with a ton of cap flexibility right now. If Stutzle made Matthews money they might be in a situation where they can’t afford to re-sign their RFAs or have to run a career backup as their stater to yet another mid-20s finish.

More useless arguments... I don't think this thread says "Please consider Pierre Dorion as the GM and DJ Smith as the coach"

What an argument.

Why stop moving the goal posts at 1 year though! Why not 2? 3? Their entire careers! Just think of how much we can misconstrue the numbers!

Why looking at last year would not be a good argument? Because Stutzle outscored Matthews by 27 pts at the same age?

About the same relevance of taking a career low vs career high comparison. If you can use Stutzle’s career high, why not include the previous 82 that includes Matthews’? Don’t answer that, we know the answer already.

Why even mention last year as Stutzle's "career high"? He was 20 years old...

Damn, you guys are really bad at making arguments

 

[Xspyrit]

In Stutzles career so far he’s averaged 28 goals and 70 points per 82 games.

In Matthews’ career so far he’s averaged 52 goals and 93 points per 82 games.

Matthews is 26 y/o, Stutzle is 21 y/o

Again, do any of you want to manufacture more of these ultra weak arguments?

Matthews averaged 43 goals and 79 points per 82 games up until age 22

The question now is how the hell did Matthews managed to get a 14.64 CAP % contract with that kind of production?

Stutzle's CAP % is only 10.12 and has averaged only 9 less pts before hitting 22 y/o

I think this highlights how bad Matthews contracts have been

Stupid arguments deserve stupid counter arguments

Career averages are absolutely relevant. Not sure why you’re fighting so hard and jumping through so many hoops to try and prove your point that you think Stutzles better lol.

Wait, are you doubling down?

Personally, I don't give a crap about the poll results, I'm just flabbergasted by these ridiculous arguments

Are you okay? I never said goals are everything. Completely ignoring the goal scoring difference between Matthews and Stutzle when Matthews is the best goal scorer in the world is certainly a choice tho

Well, I'll quote you initially quoting me "13 goals to 2 goals, lmao at "producing 40% more" like that's a proper way to frame their offensive value"

Yes, your whole argument was related to goals.

And do you have a quote where anyone hinted that we should and I quote "completely ignoring the goal scoring difference"???

Finally, since last year :

Pastrnak 0.74 GPG
McDavid 0.73 GPG
Rantanen 0.68 GPG
Draisaitl 0.63 GPG
Matthews 0.62 GPG

Matthews have a very hot start of the season but he has a bit of work still to reclaim the "best goal scorer in the world" title. Some other guys are good at it too.

 

[Craig Button]

Or Stutzle and Tarasenko

Vlad will be back earning 7.5+ next season.

He’ll bounce back and will get a chance to play for a better team.

Most likely he’ll get traded at deadline for a 1st.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Matthews is 26 y/o, Stutzle is 21 y/o

Again, do any of you want to manufacture more of these ultra weak arguments?

Matthews averaged 43 goals and 79 points per 82 games up until age 22

The question now is how the hell did Matthews managed to get a 14.64 CAP % contract with that kind of production?

Stutzle's CAP % is only 10.12 and has averaged only 9 less pts before hitting 22 y/o

I think this highlights how bad Matthews contracts have been

Stupid arguments deserve stupid counter arguments



Wait, are you doubling down?

Personally, I don't give a crap about the poll results, I'm just flabbergasted by these ridiculous arguments



Well, I'll quote you initially quoting me "13 goals to 2 goals, lmao at "producing 40% more" like that's a proper way to frame their offensive value"

Yes, your whole argument was related to goals.

And do you have a quote where anyone hinted that we should and I quote "completely ignoring the goal scoring difference"???

Finally, since last year :

Pastrnak 0.74 GPG
McDavid 0.73 GPG
Rantanen 0.68 GPG
Draisaitl 0.63 GPG
Matthews 0.62 GPG

Matthews have a very hot start of the season but he has a bit of work still to reclaim the "best goal scorer in the world" title. Some other guys are good at it too.

Not responding after this because there’s no point talking to a wall. I absolutely am doubling down because even though Matthews has the more expensive contract, he’s a WAY better player than Stutzle and will very likely be at any point in their careers once they’re both done playing. In 20+ years non one will care about Stutzle+(Korpisalo/x player) = Matthews in cap space.