Tim Stutzle vs Auston Matthews Contracts Included

[Tufted Titmouse]

By your own admission the people taking Stutzle are taking the objectively, significantly worse player.

Do you not see how ridiculous that is.

It's like taking broccoli over chocolate cake.

Nobody would Do that because It's ridiculous.

I'm not a Stutzle fan, I've been pretty loud about that, but I still think you are doing him dirty here.

When you get to this tier of player, it gets pretty muddy. Only McDavid and Makar truly above their piers imo.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You got that from this statement

Im not sure either choice is definitively wrong.

No,I got the part where they called Matthews a top 3-5 player in the world.

Nobody would call Stutzle that, meaning he's objectively worse.

 

[Golden_Jet]

No,I got the part where they called Matthews a top 3-5 player in the world.

Don’t forget the words that you conveniently took out, to complete the sentence. Totally different meaning looking at the original quote, vs the cherry picked part.

want to keep your arguably top 3-5 player in the world,
but ultimately that might not be best course of action,

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Matthews is certainly the better regular season player.

But in an elimation playoff game? Better to go with an unknown than a certified proven choker that produces less the bigger the game is.

Matthews is basically a better version of Alexei Yashin. Similar style too.

Could you possibly post some of Stutzle's postseason stats so we can compare?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Could you possibly post some of Stutzle's postseason stats so we can compare?

Players don’t get paid in post season, that’s probably why Matthew’s struggles.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Players don’t get paid in post season, that’s probably why Matthew’s struggles.

Could be true. Could you post Stutzle's post season stats instead then?

Lots of comments about postseason performance. I am excited to see what he's racked up.

 

[sennysensen]

Could you possibly post some of Stutzle's postseason stats so we can compare?

Could you possibly develop better reading comprehension?
I clearly referred to Stutzle's future postseason performance as "unknown". This means he could be average, or raise his game like Nathan McKinnon, or produce far worse than in the regular season like Matthews or Tavares.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Could you possibly develop better reading comprehension?
I clearly referred to Stutzle's future postseason performance as "unknown". This means he could be average, or raise his game like Nathan McKinnon, or produce far worse than in the regular season like Matthews or Tavares.

So is missing the playoffs better than making them but failing?

That's the only way to make sense of people claiming Matthews never missing the playoffs but failing to win a Cup is somehow a knock on him, while Stutzle's failure to make the playoffs is somehow handwaved.

Maybe this argument will be better suited for when the Sens actually do make the playoffs. Otherwise, we're putting the cart before the horse with some of this logic.

 

[sennysensen]

So is missing the playoffs better than making them but failing?

That's the only way to make sense of people claiming Matthews never missing the playoffs but failing to win a Cup is somehow a knock on him, while Stutzle's failure to make the playoffs is somehow handwaved.

Maybe this argument will be better suited for when the Sens actually do make the playoffs. Otherwise, we're putting the cart before the horse with some of this logic.

Do you find it interesting that during the Auston Matthews era the Senators have won 2 playoff series vs. only 1 for the Leafs? More playoff success for the Sens!

But to folks like you, regular season success matters more than playoff success.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

But to folks like you, regular season success matters more than playoff success.

Personally, I enjoy both. It's much sweeter making the dance than it is sitting on the outside trashing those who go in Maybe this year you will get to enjoy that...maybe.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Do you find it interesting that during the Auston Matthews era the Senators have won 2 playoff series vs. only 1 for the Leafs? More playoff success for the Sens!

But to folks like you, regular season success matters more than playoff success.

How many points did Stutzle get during that?

 

[sennysensen]

How many points did Stutzle get during that?

I going to say zero in zero games.

It'll be interesting to see, when Stutzle 1st makes the playoffs, whether it be this season or another year, if he excels like McKinnon, is average, or is a big game disappearing choker like Matthews.

Do you think he'll be a choker like Matthews, or perform better?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I going to say zero in zero games.

It'll be interesting to see, when Stutzle 1st makes the playoffs, whether it be this season or another year, if he excels like McKinnon, is average, or is a big game disappearing choker like Matthews.

Do you think he'll be a choker like Matthews, or perform better?

It's super dissapointing to fail in the playoffs.

I wish he could instead enjoy that electrifying accomplishment of missing, like Stu has

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

i dont see it as unreasonable to think Stuetzle ends up the better player and/or playoff performer

Jack Hughes at 21 had 6+5 in twelve playoff games..

Stuetzle only turns 21 this year!

also if Toronto had 5m extra in cap thatd help their depth a lot!

 

[Namikaze Minato]

I going to say zero in zero games.

It'll be interesting to see, when Stutzle 1st makes the playoffs, whether it be this season or another year, if he excels like McKinnon, is average, or is a big game disappearing choker like Matthews.

Do you think he'll be a choker like Matthews, or perform better?

I dont know, he cant even make the playoffs.

 

[Toby91ca]

i dont see it as unreasonable to think Stuetzle ends up the better player and/or playoff performer

Jack Hughes at 21 had 6+5 in twelve playoff games..

Stuetzle only turns 21 this year!

also if Toronto had 5m extra in cap thatd help their depth a lot!

Trouble following....Jack Hughes scoring 6+5 in 12 games at 21 is some sort of argument for why it's not unreasonable to think Stutzle ends up as the better player and/or playoff performer than Matthews? Also, Stutzle doesn't turn 21 this year (or this season I should say.....he'll turn 22)....he turned 21 (not that this has much to do with anything) 10 months ago.

 

[bobholly39]

So is missing the playoffs better than making them but failing?

That's the only way to make sense of people claiming Matthews never missing the playoffs but failing to win a Cup is somehow a knock on him, while Stutzle's failure to make the playoffs is somehow handwaved.

Maybe this argument will be better suited for when the Sens actually do make the playoffs. Otherwise, we're putting the cart before the horse with some of this logic.

Matthews should get a LOT of credit for his team's regular season successes. I mean this seriously. A lot of cores go through endless rebuilds, even with great players (McDrai, Eichel/Dahlin Buffalo, etc) and often miss playoffs when you don't think they should.

In contrast - Matthews and Leafs unexpectedly made playoffs in his rookie year...and have managed to remain a top regular season team every year since.

But flipside is - you have to also perform once you reach playoffs. And he's definitelly disappointed there, and often.

 

[Toby91ca]

Matthews should get a LOT of credit for his team's regular season successes. I mean this seriously. A lot of cores go through endless rebuilds, even with great players (McDrai, Eichel/Dahlin Buffalo, etc) and often miss playoffs when you don't think they should.

In contrast - Matthews and Leafs unexpectedly made playoffs in his rookie year...and have managed to remain a top regular season team every year since.

But flipside is - you have to also perform once you reach playoffs. And he's definitelly disappointed there, and often.

I think he gets punished hard for the team's lack of success though. I think 9 goals and 20 points in last 18 playoff games would be pretty good for most players....certainly good enough to not be labelled as a choker.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Trouble following....Jack Hughes scoring 6+5 in 12 games at 21 is some sort of argument for why it's not unreasonable to think Stutzle ends up as the better player and/or playoff performer than Matthews? Also, Stutzle doesn't turn 21 this year (or this season I should say.....he'll turn 22)....he turned 21 (not that this has much to do with anything) 10 months ago.

ahh i got the age wrong, silly me!

the point was though that Jack Hughes outproduced all of Matthews playoff runs in his first season; so theres no reason to think Stuetzle cant either!

both are very high-end players still a few years away from their primes and Matthews didnt hit 60 goals until he was 24!

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Matthews should get a LOT of credit for his team's regular season successes. I mean this seriously. A lot of cores go through endless rebuilds, even with great players (McDrai, Eichel/Dahlin Buffalo, etc) and often miss playoffs when you don't think they should.

In contrast - Matthews and Leafs unexpectedly made playoffs in his rookie year...and have managed to remain a top regular season team every year since.

But flipside is - you have to also perform once you reach playoffs. And he's definitelly disappointed there, and often.

Has he?

I have a list of players that have dissapointed more, tbh. The only series I thought he really looked bad in was that Habs series during COVID.

Boston and Tampa do own him, though. They know how to shut down his line, then Tavares...well. He's no world beater anymore.

ahh i got the age wrong, silly me!

the point was though that Jack Hughes outproduced all of Matthews playoff runs in his first season; so theres no reason to think Stuetzle cant either!

both are very high-end players still a few years away from their primes

I have no issues with saying Hughes is better than Matthews.

That kid is sick, AND he actually made the playoffs, unlike Stu

 

[bobholly39]

I think he gets punished hard for the team's lack of success though. I think 9 goals and 20 points in last 18 playoff games would be pretty good for most players....certainly good enough to not be labelled as a choker.

Who are you comparing him to? He's one of the very best players in the league today. His comparables should be the likes of Draisaitl, MacKinnon, McDavid, Kucherov....and look at those player's playoff numbers in contrast. It's night and day.

Also - Matthews has a tendency of scoring less (or not at all) the farther a round goes. He was shutout in last 3 games vs Florida last year. If you look at his playoff history, I think this happened a few times.

I don't think Matthews is a terrible playoff performer. He's been ~ok at times, but he needs to do a lot better if Leafs are ever going to contend for an actual cup.

 

[Toby91ca]

the point was though that Jack Hughes outproduced all of Matthews playoff runs in his first season; so theres no reason to think Stuetzle cant either!

How is 11 points in 12 games better than 11 points in 11 games or 9 points in 7 games which Matthews had the past 2 seasons? Or 6 points in 5 games in 2020?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Who are you comparing him to? He's one of the very best players in the league today. His comparables should be the likes of Draisaitl, MacKinnon, McDavid, Kucherov....and look at those player's playoff numbers in contrast. It's night and day.

Also - Matthews has a tendency of scoring less (or not at all) the farther a round goes. He was shutout in last 3 games vs Florida last year. If you look at his playoff history, I think this happened a few times.

I don't think Matthews is a terrible playoff performer. He's been ~ok at times, but he needs to do a lot better if Leafs are ever going to contend for an actual cup.

Even the most bias Leaf fan would agree with that.

I think most of us just find it funny that he's being dinged for his playoff performances when being compared to someone who hasn't made it.

I also don't think many Leaf fans would have a huge problem with the results of this poll, but I would personally take the guy who has peaked at the very top of the league over some cap savings.

Hughes and EP would be much tougher. I don't think you can turn down Hughes on what is likely the most team friendly contract in hockey. Stu is just on a lower level than those two, imo. I think EP and Hughes can score 55+ goals, and that negates some of what makes AM so special.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

How is 11 points in 12 games better than 11 points in 11 games or 9 points in 7 games which Matthews had the past 2 seasons? Or 6 points in 5 games in 2020?

six goals and 11 points is more than Matthews had in any playoff run

also idt small samples are great for the playoffs.. that means they didnt go very far!

 

[jbeck5]

The contract but the quality of player is the more important aspect in evaluation imo .

Yes, but not by much. I think the percentage makes a difference.

I think everyone agrees McDavid is better than MacKinnon, yet if you put up a poll asking "McDavid at 13 million or MacKinnon at 7 million, everyone will take MacKinnon... Because McDavid isn't 40% better despite him being undoubtedly better.