Tim Stutzle vs Auston Matthews Contracts Included

[Deadly Dogma]

Not if the re-draft includes their current contracts lol.

even then,
I say it goes McDavid, Bedard, Makar then Matthews

 

[HockeyVirus]

And you don't think this is due to the shitbaggery from Leaf fans?

No one just randomly picked the Leafs to shit on.
No one is envious of the Leafs so they are trying to tear them down.

If Leaf fans weren't insufferable this sort of interaction wouldn't exist. Though I wonder if there is something in the Ontario water as Sen fans are approaching similar levels with similar levels of justification.

Chicken or the egg? Leaf fans are insufferable when we win because folks put so much effort into putting the team down

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

even then,
I say it goes McDavid, Bedard, Makar then Matthews

I'd say you've got the first three right.

4 is probably Jack Hughes. Yes Matthews is better. He's not nearly $5.25M better. There's probably 5-10 other players/contracts that you can say the same for.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

I'd say you've got the first three right.

4 is probably Jack Hughes. Yes Matthews is better. He's not nearly $5.25M better. There's probably 5-10 other players/contracts that you can say the same for.

in my mind, all 32 clubs have 0 players and get to pick, so I can't see salary being a huge factor in rd 1 or 2

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

in my mind, all 32 clubs have 0 players and get to pick, so I can't see salary being a huge factor in rd 1 or 2

As evidenced by Toronto's complete inability to supplement their stars with depth over the last 6 years, it's absolutely a factor if you want to win a championship.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

As evidenced by Toronto's complete inability to supplement their stars with depth over the last 6 years, it's absolutely a factor if you want to win a championship.

I do agree, thats where rd 4-15 really come into play and trying to get guys playing above their AAV matters, but for your 1st 3 rounds I feel guys are going to go full star and salary be dammned.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It becomes hard to argue intelligently when you read things like this. While 5 M$ could certainly badly spent, it might be the difference between being able to retain a guy like Nylander or have to settle for a guy like Domi and additional depth

That's a point that some Leafs fans simply refuse to acknowledge

And sorry but Stutzle was not "terrible" defensively last year by any means, and considering he was 20 y/o, he has not done progressing

Yeah, this is my one only issue with these discussions. No matter how many times it's mentioned (I've done so already in this thread), there are multiple ways to use that $5 million extra. It's NOT just "sign a $5 million player".

For instance, an extra $5 million in cap space is the difference between being able to sign/trade for a $7 million player or having to make due with a $2 million scrub. It's the difference between bringing in a top pairing D-man at $9 million per year versus having to settle for having a $4 million D-man playing on a top pairing.

It's not JUST being able to sign a $5 million player, it's having an EXTRA $5 million to do whatever you want/need to do with that money.

 

[Xspyrit]

Fair enough, but people in here have questioned whether Matthews is the better player. I think it's fair to say he is.

Not sure many people questioned that, Matthews is still the better player at this point in time. Stutzle was better last season but it's going to take more time to change people's perception

Yeah, this is my one only issue with these discussions. No matter how many times it's mentioned (I've done so already in this thread), there are multiple ways to use that $5 million extra. It's NOT just "sign a $5 million player".

For instance, an extra $5 million in cap space is the difference between being able to sign/trade for a $7 million player or having to make due with a $2 million scrub. It's the difference between bringing in a top pairing D-man at $9 million per year versus having to settle for having a $4 million D-man playing on a top pairing.

It's not JUST being able to sign a $5 million player, it's having an EXTRA $5 million to do whatever you want/need to do with that money.

Need is the most important word here, teams manage the whole thing based on what they think their team NEEDS to win. If the 5 M$ is invested to fit a big team NEED then yes it matters a lot. For the Sens, having Chyrun at 4.6 makes a HUGE difference

 

[Kegu]

My takeaway from this thread is that people are conflating who is the better player with who would you rather have going forward.
Its understandable to double and down and want to keep your arguably top 3-5 player in the world, but ultimately that might not be best course of action, and I'm not sure chastising people over their decision to take Stutzle is correct.
Im not sure either choice is definitively wrong.

 

[wetcoast]

Chill leafs fanbois it's 2 games against mid/bad teams. Stutzle outscored AM last year, is much younger, earns 5m less and has longer term.

The thing is that he outscored him by 5 points in 4 games in what was a down year for AM and even then Matthews had the better overall game last year anyways.

I like Stutzle a lot but I'd take AM here even with the contract.

Not if the re-draft includes their current contracts lol.

If there was a total league redraft for a single season (or heck even just in general going forward) the best players would still be the ones that go first even if they have very large contracts.

 

[bobbyking]

dam this kid overrated

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Poll is right. It’s Timmy.

 

[centipede2233]

even then,
I say it goes McDavid, Bedard, Makar then Matthews

Jack Hughes says hi

 

[MCR74]

Not if the re-draft includes their current contracts lol.

Why don't you reach some more?

 

[Xspyrit]

The thing is that he outscored him by 5 points in 4 games in what was a down year for AM and even then Matthews had the better overall game last year anyways.

I like Stutzle a lot but I'd take AM here even with the contract.



If there was a total league redraft for a single season (or heck even just in general going forward) the best players would still be the ones that go first even if they have very large contracts.

Not sure what is the point of mentioning that again and again. If people don't like this poll, why don't they make another one Matthews vs Stutzle without contracts so a mod could close it a few hours later?

99+% people will agree that Matthews is better for the same money, so this is why the current thread was created

How hard is it to understand?

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Why don't you reach some more?

Not a reach at all. If Toronto would realize the salary cap exists, they may have won a 14th Cup by now.

If there was a total league redraft for a single season (or heck even just in general going forward) the best players would still be the ones that go first even if they have very large contracts.

If there's a marginal difference in play quality but a major difference in cap, they're getting pushed down the list.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Matthews is quite easily better but Stutzle has the better contract .

 

[jbeck5]

Matthews is quite easily better but Stutzle has the better contract .

Exactly.

So what's better by a higher percentage? The contract or the player?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Honestly, I don't have a problem with people voting Stutzle.

I gotta ask, though, why wouldn't he be paid less? His contract includes RFA years, he has never made the playoffs, never won any major awards or finish near the top in any category. His defensive game needs a lot of work.

His deal is probably going to age to be below his value. I don't know why anyone would expect him to make as much as a Rocket-calibre C who has been the best player on his team, which has made the playoffs every year since he joined the team.

It's bizarre to see Matthews getting roasted for his playoff performances when the other option has not yet made it that far.

The two contracts that really hurt me are Makar and Hughes. Those two deals will be all-time discounts in the cap era.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Which is the point of the current poll...

If Leafs fans want to make a Matthews vs Stutzle poll WITHOUT contracts to be re-assured, then ok

Matthews will lose that poll easily.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Exactly.

So what's better by a higher percentage? The contract or the player?

The contract but the quality of player is the more important aspect in evaluation imo .

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Matthews will lose that poll easily.

Yup as big as the fan base is the detractor sector is as big or bigger . Like maybe you can justify the position w the contract but not on a player for player basis .

 

[sennysensen]

Matthews is certainly the better regular season player.

But in an elimation playoff game? Better to go with an unknown than a certified proven choker that produces less the bigger the game is.

Matthews is basically a better version of Alexei Yashin. Similar style too.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

My takeaway from this thread is that people are conflating who is the better player with who would you rather have going forward.
Its understandable to double and down and want to keep your arguably top 3-5 player in the world, but ultimately that might not be best course of action, and I'm not sure chastising people over their decision to take Stutzle is correct.
Im not sure either choice is definitively wrong.

By your own admission the people taking Stutzle are taking the objectively, significantly worse player.

Do you not see how ridiculous that is.

It's like taking broccoli over chocolate cake.

Nobody would Do that because It's ridiculous.

 

[Golden_Jet]

By your own admission the people taking Stutzle are taking the objectively, significantly worse player.

You got that from this statement

Im not sure either choice is definitively wrong.