Player Discussion Tim Stützle - L̶W̶/C - Part V

[aragorn]

What's great is that even if Norris regresses to a 15% shooting percentage, he scores 30+ goals per season. I think he's that good of a shooter and goal scorer to shoot at 15%+ every season

Don't worry I know it was not a knock but really wanted to point out his 22 y/o (ridiculous) goals production. I was also just stating that it's going to be a good a very good problem to have this kind of debate : "Who is our best 1st line center?"

I think Stutzle will be the better producer because of playmaking. Norris the best goal scorer. They complete each other

Norris also has Tkachuk as a linemate & if they keep Batherson too on the same line, I don't see his production slowing down, but increasing. It all depends on what they want to do next season with their lines, but I suspect that the lines will change a lot as they have this season depending on how they are doing in games & also if they have acquired another top six forward like Giroux to play in the top six. The other unknown factor is whether Joseph can be better with this group & increase his production, the same can apply to Formenton & Brown & whether they are 2nd or 3rd line forwards on this team next season. Lots of good pieces moving forward & I'm still wondering if Sokolov or Greig make the team for next season, if they have not acquired a top six forward.

 

[Boud]

Pinto getting injured was a blessing in disguise. How different he's looked down the middle cannot be overstated. Absolutely exploded at that point.

I just made a count not sure if it's 100% accurate but he changed to center early Dec. Since that time (or around that time) he has 49 pts in 56 games...

 

[Micklebot]

Pinto getting injured was a blessing in disguise. How different he's looked down the middle cannot be overstated. Absolutely exploded at that point.

I just made a count not sure if it's 100% accurate but he changed to center early Dec. Since that time (or around that time) he has 49 pts in 56 games...

Honestly, it shouldn't have mattered. Stutzle should have been phased into C regardless, but you're probably right that it wouldn't have happened without the injury

 

[SPF6ty9]

Dear everyone:

Please don’t make main board threads highlighting Stü’s rolling breakthrough’s, successes, projections, or to justify why we are excited as a fanbase, or to compare to other players.

It will be Karlsson 2.0.

The main board *shiver*

Stutzle looks great though. I'd still take Jack Hughes over him, but if you take me back to 2 months ago or so, I never would have thought the gap would have closed so much. Tim will be PPG next year.

 

[Imnotagoodposter]

I remember getting downvoted into oblivion on Reddit during the early part of this season when I said Stutzle would do better at centre. “He hasn’t played centre in years. His game is better suited for the wing.”

Reddit really sucks ass, moreso than hfboards for all it’s faults

 

[Nova Stutzlia]

The main board *shiver*

Stutzle looks great though. I'd still take Jack Hughes over him, but if you take me back to 2 months ago or so, I never would have thought the gap would have closed so much. Tim will be PPG next year.

If you look at their offensive stats, 1st year vs. 1st year. etc., Tim has been better:

JH:

2019-20	New Jersey Devils	NHL	61	7	14	21	10	-26	--	--	--	--	--
2020-21	New Jersey Devils	NHL	56	11	20	31	16	-3	--	--	--	--	--
2021-22	New Jersey Devils	NHL	49	26	30	56	0

TS:

2020-21	Ottawa Senators	NHL	53	12	17	29	14	-18	--	--	--	--	--
2021-22	Ottawa Senators	NHL	77	22	35	57

JH is a year (8 months) older.

But maybe you're including other things.

 

[umma gumma]

I'm just quoting this so it stays fresh.

 

[SPF6ty9]

If you look at their offensive stats, 1st year vs. 1st year. etc., Tim has been better:

JH:

2019-20	New Jersey Devils	NHL	61	7	14	21	10	-26	--	--	--	--	--
2020-21	New Jersey Devils	NHL	56	11	20	31	16	-3	--	--	--	--	--
2021-22	New Jersey Devils	NHL	49	26	30	56	0

TS:

2020-21	Ottawa Senators	NHL	53	12	17	29	14	-18	--	--	--	--	--
2021-22	Ottawa Senators	NHL	77	22	35	57

JH is a year (8 months) older.

But maybe you're including other things.

More an eye test thing and where Hughes appears to be at now. To me he already looks like one of the most dynamic and dangerous offensive players in the league. If you look at his stats in just 2022 (yeah I know, pointless arbitrary cutoff) he was pacing as a 102 point player, and that cuts off his last 2 games of 2021 where he had 6 points.

I think Stutzle has PPG+ potential and could match him, but right now Hughes just looks quicker and like he creates more space and chances. Maybe that's skill, maybe that's the extra year.

Of course that could change, I'm not going to stick to that opinion if Stutzle becomes his equal or better, but it's just how I'd view it today.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

More an eye test thing and where Hughes appears to be at now. To me he already looks like one of the most dynamic and dangerous offensive players in the league. If you look at his stats in just 2022 (yeah I know, pointless arbitrary cutoff) he was pacing as a 102 point player, and that cuts off his last 2 games of 2021 where he had 6 points.

I think Stutzle has PPG+ potential and could match him, but right now Hughes just looks quicker and like he creates more space and chances. Maybe that's skill, maybe that's the extra year.

Of course that could change, I'm not going to stick to that opinion if Stutzle becomes his equal or better, but it's just how I'd view it today.

Way too rationale for HFB. I don’t know where you think you are.

 

[OD99]

More an eye test thing and where Hughes appears to be at now. To me he already looks like one of the most dynamic and dangerous offensive players in the league. If you look at his stats in just 2022 (yeah I know, pointless arbitrary cutoff) he was pacing as a 102 point player, and that cuts off his last 2 games of 2021 where he had 6 points.

I think Stutzle has PPG+ potential and could match him, but right now Hughes just looks quicker and like he creates more space and chances. Maybe that's skill, maybe that's the extra year.

Of course that could change, I'm not going to stick to that opinion if Stutzle becomes his equal or better, but it's just how I'd view it today.

Not sure where the Hughes vs Timmy discussion began but obviously being a year younger makes a difference. I could certainly see Timmy look to be 100pt player next season if the overall scoring remains inflated as well.

That said, the difference for me is where I see Stu physical game going. He likes to hit and while I haven't seen enough NJD games to know if Hughes defensive game is any good watching Stu battle down low, gain control and essentially rag the puck until he has space and opposition has to back off is very impressive.

He does things as C that not many do already as he is a one man breakout and zone entry guy. Once he starts to really figure out how to make the players around him better he will reach another level as now he is dominating at times simply through will and skill.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Dear everyone:

Please don’t make main board threads highlighting Stü’s rolling breakthrough’s, successes, projections, or to justify why we are excited as a fanbase, or to compare to other players.

It will be Karlsson 2.0.

It'll be Karlsson 2.0 regardless.

There's a reason why I'm so careless and aggressive sometimes. When I first came to these boards, Sens players completely disregarded left and right. Easy to pick on the little brother with two mega giants beside us. And their media narratives completely undermine our talent.

Just look at what Gallagher incident did. The guy missed two freaking games after and he's still considered a diver off a hit that is closer to suspension worthy than an embellishment.

I legit remember Schenn > Karlsson and Doughty > Karlsson in droves, even with no opposition by Sens fans.

Just look at the freaking Batherson mainboard thread. What a ridiculous goal and like 5 posts with 3-4 Sens fans.

Greig is 3rd in PPG in entire WHL and his thread was buried in literally page 16.

Someone's gotta step up.

 

[Alex1234]

It'll be Karlsson 2.0 regardless.

There's a reason why I'm so careless and aggressive sometimes. When I first came to these boards, Sens players completely disregarded left and right. Easy to pick on the little brother with two mega giants beside us. And their media narratives completely undermine our talent.

Just look at what Gallagher incident did. The guy missed two freaking games after and he's still considered a diver off a hit that is closer to suspension worthy than an embellishment.

I legit remember Schenn > Karlsson and Doughty > Karlsson in droves, even with no opposition by Sens fans.

Just look at the freaking Batherson mainboard thread. What a ridiculous goal and like 5 posts with 3-4 Sens fans.

Greig is 3rd in PPG in entire WHL and his thread was buried in literally page 16.

Someone's gotta step up.

Clear Murray, White, CT ,Gaudette, Mete, Z and get Giroux Zadorov and maybe Miller and up Grieg, Soko ,Lassi, JBD, Sandy (no brainer)

And let the wins do the talking

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Clear Murray, White, CT ,Gaudette, Mete, Z and get Giroux Zadorov and maybe Miller and up Grieg, Soko ,Lassi, JBD, Sandy (no brainer)

And let the wins do the talking

Until Dorion can achieve that, I gotta do the Lord's work in the main boards. Send me some help, Dorion.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Praise Dorion….

 

[cudi]

Praise Dorion….

for making an obvious choice? GOOD JOB PIERRE! YOU'RE NOT A TOTAL MORON

 

[SpezDispenser]

We can negotiate this summer, right? 9.5 x 8?

 

[GermanSpitfire]

We can negotiate this summer, right? 9.5 x 8?

No shot he gets that much, he’ll use Jack Hughes as a comp. 8x8

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

No shot he gets that much, he’ll use Jack Hughes as a comp. 8x8

didn't Stutzle have a more productive season than when Hughes signed?

And is Stutzle really gonna take less than Brady despite it being obvious to everyone ( and especially to himself) that he is the better talent and has more upside?

If I'm Stu I have the huge season next year and push for a 9 or 10 mill contract.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

didn't Stutzle have a more productive season than when Hughes signed?

And is Stutzle really gonna take less than Brady despite it being obvious to everyone ( and especially to himself) that he is the better talent and has more upside?

If I'm Stu I have the huge season next year and push for a 9 or 10 mill contract.

You’re correct that he’ll likely not take less than Brady so 8.5x8? and he’d be smart to wait until his ELC is up tbh he’ll likely get more money barring any major injury.

 

[majormajor]

And is Stutzle really gonna take less than Brady despite it being obvious to everyone ( and especially to himself) that he is the better talent and has more upside?

This should have been obvious when Brady was signed. It's not just the extra million you have to pay to Brady, it's the extra million you now have to pay to every star forward.

 

[Berri UQAM]

Ottawa should have targeted Susuki & Caufield the way Montreal was targeting Stutzle. That's the code, if you go after our star we will go after your star. Don't even bother with Gallagher he's not a star any more, he's in decline, go after the guy's who can score on you now. That's how you stop them from targeting our stars by going after theirs. Tit for tat.

Pests and tough guys are probably used to being challenged. I doubt that going after them does much deterrence. If anything, Gallagher probably likes the attention because it makes him relevant.

Ottawa is a tough team with a tough lineup, in my opinion. That said, as the game on Saturday went on they looked like they cared more about winning than sending a message. Winning is a reasonable priority, but they would need to send a stronger message to stop Montreal or other teams from targetting Stutzle. In my view, the loudest message you can send is to go after the star players.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

This should have been obvious when Brady was signed. It's not just the extra million you have to pay to Brady, it's the extra million you now have to pay to every star forward.

yup if Brady signs 7-7.5 maybe we get away with Norris at 6.7 and Stutzle at 8-8.5

But as it is both Norris and Stutzle can easily argue they are better players than Brady and thus easily argue they deserve more.

 

[Answer]

This should have been obvious when Brady was signed. It's not just the extra million you have to pay to Brady, it's the extra million you now have to pay to every star forward.

As long as we don't sign Norris to an extra million

 

[Answer]

yup if Brady signs 7-7.5 maybe we get away with Norris at 6.7 and Stutzle at 8-8.5

But as it is both Norris and Stutzle can easily argue they are better players than Brady and thus easily argue they deserve more.

In what world is Norris better than Tkachuk?

Norris just has a better one-time and that is it.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

In what world is Norris better than Tkachuk?

Norris just has a better one-time and that is it.

there is certainly an argument.

better offense: Brady was only pacing for around 50 points when he signed his contract. Norris is pacing for 40+goals

better defense: this one isn't close, Brady has a lot of work to do to just be a good defensive player, Norris is one of our best defensive players already.

those are the two most important traits in hockey players.

Brady has a huge edge in physical play I agree, do you think that's enough to make up for the clear advantage Norris has shown in offense and defense?