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Player Discussion Tim Stützle - (C) - Part VI

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Tuna99 said:
Bedard
McDavid
Makar
Matthews
Jake Sanderson

In 2 years Timmy might not even be the best player on his team
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I'm a huge Sanderson fan but it seems really overly optimistic to force him into a hypothetical top 5 players in the league in two years list.

I mean, just in terms of Dmen, you're looking at a lot of competition with Makar, Dahlin, Powers,
 
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ReginKarlssonLehner said:
Top 5 player. In the game.

Said it last year, will likely remind people again. We could have 2 top 10-15 players in the league in him and Sanderson.
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Let me heavily emphasize the word "could" for you here. In a world of fairy's, sunshine, and everything else good - sure maybe we COULD have 2 top-10 players.

But when you remember that there is a fan similar to you for every single fan base in this league stating their young star (Hughes, Powers, Dahlin, Thompson, Beniers, Raymond, Cozens, Caulfield, Zegras, Jiricek, Svechnikov, and probably 10-20 other guys) will be future top-10 players in the league plus established stars like McDavid, Draisaitl, Pastrnak and many more guys still handily dominating the league, I hope you understand just how wishful your statement is and I hope you don't get too disappointed if that doesn't happen.
 
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ReginKarlssonLehner said:
Top 5 player. In the game.

Said it last year, will likely remind people again. We could have 2 top 10-15 players in the league in him and Sanderson.
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Sanderson's rookie season has been really good so far, but just one year ago there was a rookie defenseman who was even better. And then there are dozens of non-rookie defensemen in this league who aren't bad, either.
We will be very, very lucky if Stützle and Sanderson will both be in the top 30 at one point. Anything above that is just pure speculation.
 
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I love Jake Sanderson, but prognosticating him as a top 5 player in the NHL is military grade crazy.

K1900L said:
Sanderson's rookie season has been really good so far, but just one year ago there was a rookie defenseman who was even better. And then there are dozens of non-rookie defensemen in this league who aren't bad, either.
We will be very, very lucky if Stützle and Sanderson will both be in the top 30 at one point. Anything above that is just pure speculation.
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I fully anticipate Timmy to be a top 10-15 player at one point. Hell, he could be in the top 30 by the end of this season. Imagine him at 25 years old.
 
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Pinto Bean said:
Let me heavily emphasize the word "could" for you here. In a world of fairy's, sunshine, and everything else good - sure maybe we COULD have 2 top-10 players.

But when you remember that there is a fan similar to you for every single fan base in this league stating their young star (Hughes, Powers, Dahlin, Thompson, Beniers, Raymond, Cozens, Caulfield, Zegras, Jiricek, Svechnikov, and probably 10-20 other guys) will be future top-10 players in the league plus established stars like McDavid, Draisaitl, Pastrnak and many more guys still handily dominating the league, I hope you understand just how wishful your statement is and I hope you don't get too disappointed if that doesn't happen.
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Bookmark da post, brother. Book. Mark. It.
 
ReginKarlssonLehner said:
Bookmark da post, brother. Book. Mark. It.
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What makes the Sens two players (Sandy & Stu) so special that they're more likely to both become top-10-15 players then guys like Hughes, Beniers, Power, Dahlin, McDavid, Thompson, Makar, Mackinnon, Robertson, Bedard, Draisatil, Matt Tkachuk, Marner, Connor, Rantanen, Matthews, Cozens, Necas, Svechnikov, Caulfield, Hischier, Heiskanen, Dobson, Mactavish and SO MANY other contenders?
 
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jhutter said:
I love Jake Sanderson, but prognosticating him as a top 5 player in the NHL is military grade crazy.


I fully anticipate Timmy to be a top 10-15 player at one point. Hell, he could be in the top 30 by the end of this season. Imagine him at 25 years old.
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He's currently 39th, and 30th in P/GP.
 
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No way is Sanderson going to be a top 5 player in the league. I've been one of his biggest supporters, but I just don't see that. Even though his offensive game is underrated, he simply does not have the offensive flair to be a top 5 player. Elite two-way defensemen are never in the top 5. You need a little extra offensive oomph to be a top 5 player as a defenseman in the league. I could see him being a top 5 defenseman at his absolute peak, while being somewhere in the top 10 defensemen for a big chunk of his career.

Stutzle on the other hand I think does have the potential to be a top 5 player in league at his peak. Not a guarantee, but the potential is absolutely there. I would argue he's already a top 30 player.
 
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swiftwin said:
No way is Sanderson going to be a top 5 player in the league. I've been one of his biggest supporters, but I just don't see that. Even though his offensive game is underrated, he simply does not have the offensive flair to be a top 5 player. Elite two-way defensemen are never in the top 5. You need a little extra offensive oomph to be a top 5 player as a defenseman in the league. I could see him being a top 5 defenseman at his absolute peak, while being somewhere in the top 10 defensemen for a big chunk of his career.

Stutzle on the other hand I think does have the potential to be a top 5 player in league at his peak. Not a guarantee, but the potential is absolutely there. I would argue he's already a top 30 player.
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Top 5 in the league is pure insanity as it completely overlooks the entire league. As an example, Colorado has 3 players, Toronto has 2 players better than Stutzle… theres 5 and from only 2 other teams which leaves another 29 to consider!

He will be a top player in the league for sure. If hes in the conversation to be the top 32 players in the league, we should be estatic.
 
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Golden_Jet said:
Ya salary cap changed things on Havlat and Chara.
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Yeah it did. Havlat had the year left on his contract though, and the team could have fit him in for that playoff run.

They decided to trade him rather than lose him for nothing. The return wasn't great, a second round pick, Preissing and maybe Josh hennesay or some other B prospect that never made an impact. Preissing was a fine bottom pair defenseman, but just about anyone could have played that role. Havlat could have made a real difference when it came to the Ducks shutting down the Pizza line.

Team's today would have just kept him as a self rental. But the Senators made their choice, and it was a costly one.
 
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Beech said:
you must balance the 2015 draft with the 1995..that had Bedard, which became Redden. White is unbalanced as the 1995 draft was limited to Bedard/Redden. But White got bought out !!!!

The Zanon, Gleason, Laich are still their drafts..yes, they played elsewhere, but their drafts. Should L brown suddenly discover himself, he will be counted as part of Ottawa 16-21 successes.

Now the 8:
2016: No One...again should L Brown suddenly materialize
2017: Batherson, a star, Formenton (in his time here so far a 3rd liner, he may or may not return to the NHL and may or may not become a top player...if he had shown enough, you bet your ass, the Sens would have signed him this summer...Hockey Canada shit or not)
2018: Brady T, a star, JDB (UNKNOWN..he is taking the scenic route)
2019: S. Pinto (rock solid, will most likely enjoy a 10-15 year career as a solid 3C or even 2C). Lassi T. (See JBD..but with even less probability)
2020: Timmie, Sanderson (future stars). As for Greig and Jarventie ...I am hoping R Jar is injured. And I am hoping R Gr spent some time on injury, because both have missed some serious time... Only 1 of these two will make it, as a 3rd liner, with maybe some time spent on line 2 in their prime years
2021: One of Tyler B, or Zack O..not both. I believe Zach O. is the one, he has a bit of Mike Fisher in him.

16: 0 guys
17: 1 or 2 guys
18: 1 or 2 guys
19: 1
20: 2 or 3 guys
21: 1 guy

total: 6 definite, 3 probable/possible . gives you 6-9..... I am still Luke warm on JBD..dropping it to 8.
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Is there a reason you left out Kastelic ?

I also find it odd to state things like only 1 of Boucher or Ostapchuk will make it. Weird take.

16: 0 guys
17: 2 - Batherson and Formenton.
18: 3 - Tkachuk, JBD, Crookshank
19: 2 - Pinto and Kastelic. Sogaard is likely as is Thomson. Guenette and Lodin have a chance.
20: 4 - Stu, Sanderson, Greig, Kleven. Way too early to write off Jarventie.
21: 2 - Boucher, Ostapchuk

So that’s 13 plus a bunch other possibles.
 
GCK said:
Is there a reason you left out Kastelic ?

I also find it odd to state things like only 1 of Boucher or Ostapchuk will make it. Weird take.

16: 0 guys
17: 2 - Batherson and Formenton.
18: 3 - Tkachuk, JBD, Crookshank
19: 2 - Pinto and Kastelic. Sogaard is likely as is Thomson. Guenette and Lodin have a chance.
20: 4 - Stu, Sanderson, Greig, Kleven. Way too early to write off Jarventie.
21: 2 - Boucher, Ostapchuk

So that’s 13 plus a bunch other possibles.
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you, I and ~ 1.5 million Sens fans will be doing summersaults if the number hits that high.

2018???? ..it is 2022/2023, JBD has yet to establish himself, neither has crookshank.

by comparison, their 1998 equivalent: Fisher, by 00/01 was a full time NHLer that never looked back. Neil, by 01/02 was a full time NHLer that never looked back.

the class of 2018 had better get its ass in gear.. it is already 2-3 years late. Heck Peter Schastlivy (a bust) played 33 games in 2002/2003 (a team that got 113 points, a President's trophy and played in the ECF, so good luck in elbowing your way in)

No comparisson..1996-2001 blows any 6 year period in Ottawa Sens draft history out of the water. 2016-2021 had better get it in gear, or it will be worse than 2006-2011 which produced 10 (11 if you want to argue Dzingle).

with 10 or 11 players from 06-11, the Sens still stunk up the joint 2008-2017. What will happen if the number is lower???

1998-2007 greatest stretch in the Sens' 30 year history. Built largely on the back of 1996-2001 drafting, the greatest in team history. The 2016-2021 had better start getting their asses moving.

As for Kastelic??? a 23 year old, 4th liner, played 36 games has 4 points.. will be 24 before this season ends !!!! Do you really envision him as anything more than a 4th liner who will play 200-300 games and be out of the league by age 28-29.
 
NB613 said:
Top 5 in the league is pure insanity as it completely overlooks the entire league. As an example, Colorado has 3 players, Toronto has 2 players better than Stutzle… theres 5 and from only 2 other teams which leaves another 29 to consider!

He will be a top player in the league for sure. If hes in the conversation to be the top 32 players in the league, we should be estatic.
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Did you miss the part where I said "AT HIS PEAK"??? You know, the point where Stutzle is 27 and the players on Toronto/Colorado you noted are 30+.... Not only that, but I also say "has the potential to" (because who know what other players can break into the league between now and then).

Like, I get that y'all love to be contrarian to everything I say, but I'm not the only one who believes this:
 
Beech said:
yes and no..read slowly swiftwin

draft years 1996-2001..result years 1998-2007
draft years 2016-2021..result years 2018-2027

we know 1996-2001 produced 16 NHLrs..Zanon just missed out and only hit 493 games, Arvd. at 433, but he was very late in coming to the NHL. The others played 700 or more and had good to great careers.

so far the 2016-2021 have produced 5 players.. the 2020 and 2021's are still young..we don't know..they may produce 1-2. The 16-2019 may have another 1-2. And so the 2016-2021 will most likely top out at 8.

One produced 16, the other produced 8.. Now, should the heaven's open and suddenly a rush of players from 2016-2021 surface-resurface, it may hit 10...we are still talking 16 to 10.

There is no comparison 1996-2201, has been to date the greatest drafting period in Sens history and one of the best in league history. It should have produced 2-3 cups and 5-6 EFCs. It produced 2 EFCs, 1 CUP trip, but no victory.. so tragically short of expectations...but so far, it is better than the 16-21 and by a mile


1996: Philips, Dackel, Salo
1997: Hossa, Arvidson
1998: Fisher, Neil
1999: Havlat, Kelly
2000: Volc, Vermet, Zanon
2001: Spezza, Gleason, Emery, Laich

16
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Even you said they all didn’t play 500 but let’s count them anyway lol.

Cherry picked dates
Why not 95-2000
Because it Hurts your case,
Plus your including players that never played for Ottawa. Or had a cup of coffee.
 
Golden_Jet said:
Even you said they all didn’t play 500 but let’s count them anyway lol.

Cherry picked dates
Why not 95-2000
Because it Hurts your case,
Plus your including players that never played for Ottawa. Or had a cup of coffee.
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okay 1995-2000

1995: Bedard ..trade to get Redden....Bedard was on his way to a fantastic career, if not for a Hossa stick.

2015: Chabot...who do you want to compare him to? Bedard or Redden?
2015: White...bought out by the Sens because no one wanted a trade.

So we drop 2001 and 2021
Spezza, Okay harsh..he was good...Emery, a quality tender...another harsh loss from the pile (Laich and Gleason...quality players)...so Yup, I take a hit
2021...No Boucher, No Ostapchuk ...now you cannot cherry pick

The facts are as they are..1996-2001 was the greatest 6 year draft period in their history..16 players. 1998/99 to 06/07...the greatest performance period in their history.

16-21 draft is 6 so far, at the extreme end it may become 10..I have my doubts of 10 !!! ..2018/2019 to 2022/2023 performance was exceptionally poor.

So the 16/21 draft classes have another 2-3 years to produce a further 10 players to tie the 96/01 draft class. And the seasons 2023/24 to 26/27 have to have 2 ecf's, one cup final, one Presidents trophy...Oh wait, the 04/05 got canceled. So the Sens have to reach 2 ecfs and a cup final and win a President's trophy the next 2 seasons...

This is not cherry picking or shitting on the 16-21 draft. It is reality as validated by history. This team had magic for those 6 years that was f'ng unreal. They have not come all that close since. Whoever was working on the amature side, knew their craft.

When the Late Eugene made his FYOUS...that was in 2019.. he thought that he was seeing 1996-2001 repeat itself. It is why he chose 2021 and beyond. He saw 15: Chabot, White, 16: L Brown, 17: Bowers, Form., Bath. 18: Brady, JBD, Tycho. 19: Lassi, Pinto, Sog...., so by 2021 the 2019's are 2 years on and filling his roster. So far, it is not matching 96 to 01.
 
Beech said:
okay 1995-2000

1995: Bedard ..trade to get Redden....Bedard was on his way to a fantastic career, if not for a Hossa stick.

2015: Chabot...who do you want to compare him to? Bedard or Redden?
2015: White...bought out by the Sens because no one wanted a trade.

So we drop 2001 and 2021
Spezza, Okay harsh..he was good...Emery, a quality tender...another harsh loss from the pile (Laich and Gleason...quality players)...so Yup, I take a hit
2021...No Boucher, No Ostapchuk ...now you cannot cherry pick

The facts are as they are..1996-2001 was the greatest 6 year draft period in their history..16 players. 1998/99 to 06/07...the greatest performance period in their history.

16-21 draft is 6 so far, at the extreme end it may become 10..I have my doubts of 10 !!! ..2018/2019 to 2022/2023 performance was exceptionally poor.

So the 16/21 draft classes have another 2-3 years to produce a further 10 players to tie the 96/01 draft class. And the seasons 2023/24 to 26/27 have to have 2 ecf's, one cup final, one Presidents trophy...Oh wait, the 04/05 got canceled. So the Sens have to reach 2 ecfs and a cup final and win a President's trophy the next 2 seasons...

This is not cherry picking or shitting on the 16-21 draft. It is reality as validated by history. This team had magic for those 6 years that was f'ng unreal. They have not come all that close since. Whoever was working on the amature side, knew their craft.

When the Late Eugene made his FYOUS...that was in 2019.. he thought that he was seeing 1996-2001 repeat itself. It is why he chose 2021 and beyond. He saw 15: Chabot, White, 16: L Brown, 17: Bowers, Form., Bath. 18: Brady, JBD, Tycho. 19: Lassi, Pinto, Sog...., so by 2021 the 2019's are 2 years on and filling his roster. So far, it is not matching 96 to 01.
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You counted guys who were drafted in their mid 20s in your 96-01 yet you’re worried that a guy in his 2nd pro season isn’t a regular. You are really chasing your tails trying to defend your position.
 
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