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Player Discussion Tim Stützle - (C) - Part VI

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swiftwin said:
Ok, so I was right. 13 players with 500 games. Maybe you're the one who needs to read slowly. I'm also not sure how relevant Zanon, Gleason and Laich are considering they never played for us. Plus, players like Kelly, Laich, Zanon and Emery would hardly be considered for this list in 2002-03 (which would equate to today for this 2016-2021 cohort). Plus you're conveniently omitting 2015, which is clearly very relevant to the current core because of Chabot.

Either way, this is a bizarre argument. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Yes, we had a good drafting streak in the late 90's/early 00's, but we had a very good shot in 2003, then got f***ed by the lockout in '05, then Hasek in '06, then became the league's first cap casualty (while still having a good shot) in '07. I'm also not sure how that's relevant to our current group of players.

I'm also curious to see who the 8 are in the current group.
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you must balance the 2015 draft with the 1995..that had Bedard, which became Redden. White is unbalanced as the 1995 draft was limited to Bedard/Redden. But White got bought out !!!!

The Zanon, Gleason, Laich are still their drafts..yes, they played elsewhere, but their drafts. Should L brown suddenly discover himself, he will be counted as part of Ottawa 16-21 successes.

Now the 8:
2016: No One...again should L Brown suddenly materialize
2017: Batherson, a star, Formenton (in his time here so far a 3rd liner, he may or may not return to the NHL and may or may not become a top player...if he had shown enough, you bet your ass, the Sens would have signed him this summer...Hockey Canada shit or not)
2018: Brady T, a star, JDB (UNKNOWN..he is taking the scenic route)
2019: S. Pinto (rock solid, will most likely enjoy a 10-15 year career as a solid 3C or even 2C). Lassi T. (See JBD..but with even less probability)
2020: Timmie, Sanderson (future stars). As for Greig and Jarventie ...I am hoping R Jar is injured. And I am hoping R Gr spent some time on injury, because both have missed some serious time... Only 1 of these two will make it, as a 3rd liner, with maybe some time spent on line 2 in their prime years
2021: One of Tyler B, or Zack O..not both. I believe Zach O. is the one, he has a bit of Mike Fisher in him.

16: 0 guys
17: 1 or 2 guys
18: 1 or 2 guys
19: 1
20: 2 or 3 guys
21: 1 guy

total: 6 definite, 3 probable/possible . gives you 6-9..... I am still Luke warm on JBD..dropping it to 8.
 
JD1 said:
Here's the thing

You're in your early 30s. It's actually YOU that isn't in a position to understand what we had in EK.

You didn't see Orr play. Or Coffey. Or Bourque. Or Robinson. Or Potvin. I saw all of them play, all live except Orr.

You're in absolutely zero position to tell me about hockey players that you've read about that I saw play and win cups.

I know what Karlsson was.

It's still not easy to win a cup.

This isn't nhl23 where you just make trades, win them, and the cup is yours.

The Maple Leafs last won the cup in 1967. You need to be in your mid to late 60s to actually have real memories of that. Think about that.

It's not as easy as a couple of trades and financial freedom
Click to expand...

Who the hell are you? Brother, just cause you in your late 60's doesn't mean you can speak down to me. I am unsure why you are so offended, I was not speaking as if I am telling you anything. Just my own perceptions. You think age has warranted you automatic respect? You are in no position to make any assumptions. I had access to hours of old footage. All I used to do in high school was watch hockey dating years back. I was obsessed. Watched every video and database I could grab my hands on(NHLvault, old cassettes coaches had etc). It's how I got into hockey circles. My fav players all time(non-Sens) are Hasek, Forsberg, Shanahan, Mogilny and Potvin (never cared much for 80's and 70's).

I wasn't tell you squat, you are acting like a ridiculously arrogant person using the age card. Karlsson is an all-time great. All those guys you mentioned won cups. Karlsson is as decorated as most of them. Did I say we'd be guaranteed a cup? I said deep runs and potential cup. I said should. Never said anything concrete and you took everything personally moment you saw 30's. A 2017 EK put the team on his back with minimal aid, what if he had legit support?

If we added a bit more to 2017, do we have better arsenal to overcome Pitts? Possibly. That's my point, we were hindered and still came close, what if we weren't hindered? How many times would we have made deep runs? Now tell me about the 1 in 1000000000 shot again because you saw Coffey live.

I respect your knowledge and experience as a person older than me, but way too condescending that time, bud.
 
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Beech said:
you must balance the 2015 draft with the 1995..that had Bedard, which became Redden. White is unbalanced as the 1995 draft was limited to Bedard/Redden. But White got bought out !!!!

The Zanon, Gleason, Laich are still their drafts..yes, they played elsewhere, but their drafts. Should L brown suddenly discover himself, he will be counted as part of Ottawa 16-21 successes.

Now the 8:
2016: No One...again should L Brown suddenly materialize
2017: Batherson, a star, Formenton (in his time here so far a 3rd liner, he may or may not return to the NHL and may or may not become a top player...if he had shown enough, you bet your ass, the Sens would have signed him this summer...Hockey Canada shit or not)
2018: Brady T, a star, JDB (UNKNOWN..he is taking the scenic route)
2019: S. Pinto (rock solid, will most likely enjoy a 10-15 year career as a solid 3C or even 2C). Lassi T. (See JBD..but with even less probability)
2020: Timmie, Sanderson (future stars). As for Greig and Jarventie ...I am hoping R Jar is injured. And I am hoping R Gr spent some time on injury, because both have missed some serious time... Only 1 of these two will make it, as a 3rd liner, with maybe some time spent on line 2 in their prime years
2021: One of Tyler B, or Zack O..not both. I believe Zach O. is the one, he has a bit of Mike Fisher in him.

16: 0 guys
17: 1 or 2 guys
18: 1 or 2 guys
19: 1
20: 2 or 3 guys
21: 1 guy

total: 6 definite, 3 probable/possible . gives you 6-9..... I am still Luke warm on JBD..dropping it to 8.
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Again, you're overlooking depth players in the 16-21 group because we don't know which ones my carve themselves out a career. Kastelic, for example, absolutely has the potential to play 500 games in the NHL. Guys like Kelly and Laich were absolutely not on the radar in 2003 as players who could be NHL regulars, let alone 500 game players.

Besides, I still don't know what point you're trying to make here.
 
Not that I care about the all star game but I voted! I want to see Timmy get in. Dcat and Cam Talbot as well.

1673033130269.jpeg
 
ReginKarlssonLehner said:
I don't think some understand the asset we had in EK
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Condescending. This is the statement that's condescending. People don't understand the asset we had in Karlsson but you do. That's condescending.

I initially asked you your age because the run between 99-07 was littered with teams that had real, actual cup aspirations whereas the 17 team didn't. I wasn't looking to pull an age thing on you. I simply wondered if you were old enough back then to have realized in those moments just how good those teams were and how high fan expectations were and just how devastating it was to lose to the Leafs every year.

Anyway...we can agree to disagree. I don't think it's easy to win a cup. You seem to believe that a little tweak here or there and we win one in the 2010s. I disagree. Let's move on.
 
ReginKarlssonLehner said:
Who the hell are you? Brother, just cause you in your late 60's doesn't mean you can speak down to me. I am unsure why you are so offended, I was not speaking as if I am telling you anything. Just my own perceptions. You think age has warranted you automatic respect? You are in no position to make any assumptions. I had access to hours of old footage. All I used to do in high school was watch hockey dating years back. I was obsessed. Watched every video and database I could grab my hands on(NHLvault, old cassettes coaches had etc). It's how I got into hockey circles. My fav players all time(non-Sens) are Hasek, Forsberg, Shanahan, Mogilny and Potvin (never cared much for 80's and 70's).

I wasn't tell you squat, you are acting like a ridiculously arrogant person using the age card. Karlsson is an all-time great. All those guys you mentioned won cups. Karlsson is as decorated as most of them. Did I say we'd be guaranteed a cup? I said deep runs and potential cup. I said should. Never said anything concrete and you took everything personally moment you saw 30's. A 2017 EK put the team on his back with minimal aid, what if he had legit support?

If we added a bit more to 2017, do we have better arsenal to overcome Pitts? Possibly. That's my point, we were hindered and still came close, what if we weren't hindered? How many times would we have made deep runs? Now tell me about the 1 in 1000000000 shot again because you saw Coffey live.

I respect your knowledge and experience as a person older than me, but way too condescending that time, bud.
Click to expand...
And btw, if I was in my late 60s I'd remember the Leafs winning the cup. I don't. But I do remember Sittler's 10 point game, Lanny's mustache and Mike Palmateer.
 
ReginKarlssonLehner said:
Who the hell are you? Brother, just cause you in your late 60's doesn't mean you can speak down to me. I am unsure why you are so offended, I was not speaking as if I am telling you anything. Just my own perceptions. You think age has warranted you automatic respect? You are in no position to make any assumptions. I had access to hours of old footage. All I used to do in high school was watch hockey dating years back. I was obsessed. Watched every video and database I could grab my hands on(NHLvault, old cassettes coaches had etc). It's how I got into hockey circles. My fav players all time(non-Sens) are Hasek, Forsberg, Shanahan, Mogilny and Potvin (never cared much for 80's and 70's).

I wasn't tell you squat, you are acting like a ridiculously arrogant person using the age card. Karlsson is an all-time great. All those guys you mentioned won cups. Karlsson is as decorated as most of them. Did I say we'd be guaranteed a cup? I said deep runs and potential cup. I said should. Never said anything concrete and you took everything personally moment you saw 30's. A 2017 EK put the team on his back with minimal aid, what if he had legit support?

If we added a bit more to 2017, do we have better arsenal to overcome Pitts? Possibly. That's my point, we were hindered and still came close, what if we weren't hindered? How many times would we have made deep runs? Now tell me about the 1 in 1000000000 shot again because you saw Coffey live.

I respect your knowledge and experience as a person older than me, but way too condescending that time, bud.
Click to expand...
His point was that we were killer in those days, and that’s not something you can understand watching videos when you got older.

The 2017 team was not a tweak or two away. That team was all EK running plays, while we literally caught lightening in a bottle as a marginal team.

Consider that there is no way EK would be able to be that player on a team with prime Alfie, Spezza, Redden, Chara, Neil, Phillips, etc… That team was legit one of the best teams in the NHL year after year, soooo much better than the 2017 team.

It’s ok to accept that it was before your time and that older poster have a better grasp on those teams.

The 2017 team was a lucky bounce away as much as a roster tweak away, it was all luck and circumstance for that squad.

As JD said it was an amazing run, like the Hamburgaler run, because it was world beating and entirely unexpected. Rarely to be duplicated type thing….
 
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Timmy has taken over the team lead in P/GP with 39 points in 35 games for 1.11 P/GP (to Brady's 1.03).

He started the season a bit slow with only 6 points in his first 9 games.
So, since then he has 33 points in 26 games for 1.26 P/GP.

Am I cherry picking here or is looking at his last 26 games a better predictor of what's to come?
 
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Nova Stutzlia said:
Timmy has taken over the team lead in P/GP with 39 points in 35 games for 1.11 P/GP (to Brady's 1.03).

He started the season a bit slow with only 6 points in his first 9 games.
So, since then he has 33 points in 26 games for 1.26 P/GP.

Am I cherry picking here or is looking at his last 26 games a better predictor of what's to come?
Click to expand...
He just keeps getting better and he shows up
 
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Nova Stutzlia said:
Timmy has taken over the team lead in P/GP with 39 points in 35 games for 1.11 P/GP (to Brady's 1.03).

He started the season a bit slow with only 6 points in his first 9 games.
So, since then he has 33 points in 26 games for 1.26 P/GP.

Am I cherry picking here or is looking at his last 26 games a better predictor of what's to come?
Click to expand...
He was over PPG in his last however many games last season so I think this is just his natural trajectory.
 
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Dionysus said:
It may be lofty, but I would not at all be surprised to see Stutzle as a consensus top 5 player during his peak.

High scoring centre who seems to be developing his shot now as well. Has the speed, edgework, hands, passing and smarts to be a 100 pt player, especially with current scoring levels.

Add to that he already plays PK, last minute of games, fantastic zone exits. He will be a two-way beast, physicality and passion as well.

He is averaging over 20 minutes a night at 20 years old. Sky is the limit, and I think he has the drive to push himself into the conversation with the best players in the league. Similar to the levels EK reached at his peak.
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Bedard
McDavid
Makar
Matthews
Jake Sanderson

In 2 years Timmy might not even be the best player on his team
 
Nova Stutzlia said:
Timmy has taken over the team lead in P/GP with 39 points in 35 games for 1.11 P/GP (to Brady's 1.03).

He started the season a bit slow with only 6 points in his first 9 games.
So, since then he has 33 points in 26 games for 1.26 P/GP.

Am I cherry picking here or is looking at his last 26 games a better predictor of what's to come?
Click to expand...
He seems to run pretty hot and cold. But that's to be expected from a 20 year old. He will get more consistent.

Atleast we know the sens have a true franchise player. I don't think he's close to his peak either. His development hasn't been linear. He seems to get a bump in play every 30 games or so. Where all of a sudden he is doing things he wasn't doing before.
 
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The fact that Stützle fell to Ottawa is nothing but a blessing.
Even if his game wouldn't improve at all from this point, he would at worst be one of the best #2C in the league with a great two way game, a phenomenal work spirit and game breaking ability who runs a powerplay and plays on the pk.
2 1/2 years after his draft, this is all you can wish for in a player.

The amazing fact? He will improve even more, and he does have the skill set and eagerness to be a #1C for the rest of his career in this league.
 
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Tuna99 said:
Bedard
McDavid
Makar
Matthews
Jake Sanderson

In 2 years Timmy might not even be the best player on his team
Click to expand...

Certainly lofty expectations, he might not make it into that elite top 5 conversation. I just think that with his tools and drive he will. If Sanderson and Stutzle are both at that level even better.
 
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