Player Discussion Tim Stützle - (C) - Part VI

[SensHulk]

The Cooper benching situation not only didn’t work, but the two teams, and the players being benched had very little in common to the Sens situation and players.

Not really a comparison more a contrast. Like: under totally different circumstances, and for totally different reasons, the coach tried to light a fire with benching, and it didn’t really work.

Whatever DJ is doing isn’t working either since Stutzle continues making the same mistakes.

Looking at Cooper’s move in isolation based on how the next few games went isn’t fair considering; his team has clinched a playoff spot, so his moves aren’t about only winning the next couple games, it’s about establishing a standard by which everyone on the team needs to adhere to, no matter the status. Something that seems to be missed whenever the apologists bring up how Jon Cooper’s moves ‘didn’t work’

 

[SensHulk]

Stutzle doesn't strike me as a guy who needs a strict coach to hold him accountable. The guy's been pretty open recently about needing to improve his play despite his offensive performance. Seems to have a good head on his shoulders.

That’s a fair point. He has been harder on himself in the media and you can see his frustrations on the bench.

I don’t think limiting ice time for a few shifts for an egregious turnover that leads to a goal is akin to a strict coach crushing a young man’s spirit. In fact it’s one of the lower hanging fruits for the coach to execute.

There are standards and expectations for each player to meet, and I don’t see DJ using this tactic to his advantage when all other coaches with a much better pedigree than him do.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I don't know if it was Stutzle's over exubrance or Sanderson's timidness but he should never defer to Stutzle when there are two forecheckers that deep.

Stutzle just f***ed up. That’s it

Whatever DJ is doing isn’t working either since Stutzle continues making the same mistakes.

Looking at Cooper’s move in isolation based on how the next few games went isn’t fair considering; his team has clinched a playoff spot, so his moves aren’t about only winning the next couple games, it’s about establishing a standard by which everyone on the team needs to adhere to, no matter the status. Something that seems to be missed whenever the apologists bring up how Jon Cooper’s moves ‘didn’t work’

Yeah Im not sure “coopers coaching doesn’t work” is an argument to be had lol.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Whatever DJ is doing isn’t working either since Stutzle continues making the same mistakes.

Looking at Cooper’s move in isolation based on how the next few games went isn’t fair considering; his team has clinched a playoff spot, so his moves aren’t about only winning the next couple games, it’s about establishing a standard by which everyone on the team needs to adhere to, no matter the status. Something that seems to be missed whenever the apologists bring up how Jon Cooper’s moves ‘didn’t work’

So what you’re saying is that the benching didn’t have the desired effect of raising the level of play of the stars immediately after the fact because it was meant to be a long game benching where the message takes a bit to sink in. I didn’t see the obvious here because I’m an ‘apologist’.

He’s the thing with Stu and the other kids; DJ can’t make them make the right plays all the time. I know it’s hard to imagine that the coach doesn’t play mind control, but it’s true. Stu will make boneheaded mistakes because he is young, lacks experience, and needs time to mature his game to a more mistake free version. This is how it works for virtually every single player ever.

DJ is teaching and developing the kids in a positive manner, and it looks like they are all responding. I’m not sure why people expect DJ to be able to make the kids play like savvy vets already.

DJ is just the de jour whipping post for the board, and we always seem to need one. The irony here is that he’s always purposly deflected the heat from his players towards himself, so he’s getting what he wants in essence.

 

[SensHulk]

So what you’re saying is that the benching didn’t have the desired effect of raising the level of play of the stars immediately after the fact because it was meant to be a long game benching where the message takes a bit to sink in. I didn’t see the obvious here because I’m an ‘apologist’.

He’s the thing with Stu and the other kids; DJ can’t make them make the right plays all the time. I know it’s hard to imagine that the coach doesn’t play mind control, but it’s true. Stu will make boneheaded mistakes because he is young, lacks experience, and needs time to mature his game to a more mistake free version. This is how it works for virtually every single player ever.

DJ is teaching and developing the kids in a positive manner, and it looks like they are all responding. I’m not sure why people expect DJ to be able to make the kids play like savvy vets already.

DJ is just the de jour whipping post for the board, and we always seem to need one. The irony here is that he’s always purposly deflected the heat from his players towards himself, so he’s getting what he wants in essence.

We’re not talking about a rookie here. Kids make mistakes, I get it and realize Stutzle isn’t a savvy vet as of yet. But he has over 200 games under his belt.

I’m not sure if your first comment was tongue in cheek, but I do think benching is a long term game, especially if we have hopes of taking the next step.

DJ has done a good job of allowing the younger players to grow, but expectations are different now. We’re getting dangerously close to playoffs or bust (certainly will be there next year) and it’s about time our coach also started setting higher expectations.

Letting players operate without any obvious ramifications (except for Brannstrom and bottom six forwards) is a dangerous game and my fear is Stu isn’t quite getting it (and another reason why he continues to make boneheaded plays). Of course yesterday’s mistake was in OT but I predictably pointed out a potential blunder like this occurring when DJ didn’t bench Stu the last time he gave away the puck against CBJ (in Ottawa). Next up is a giveaway potentially in the playoffs (unless this is properly addressed with Stu). Accountability is key and words eventually fall on deaf ears…I don’t see action and that is 100% on DJ

 

[coladin]

As I stated a little while ago, this is Alfie all over again. Trying too hard to win it himself, and it ends up in the back ofyour net. He is learning lots, and he will learn to play within himself with maturity

 

[Ice-Tray]

We’re not talking about a rookie here. Kids make mistakes, I get it and realize Stutzle isn’t a savvy vet as of yet. But he has over 200 games under his belt.

I’m not sure if your first comment was tongue in cheek, but I do think benching is a long term game, especially if we have hopes of taking the next step.

DJ has done a good job of allowing the younger players to grow, but expectations are different now. We’re getting dangerously close to playoffs or bust (certainly will be there next year) and it’s about time our coach also started setting higher expectations.

Letting players operate without any obvious ramifications (except for Brannstrom and bottom six forwards) is a dangerous game and my fear is Stu isn’t quite getting it (and another reason why he continues to make boneheaded plays). Of course yesterday’s mistake was in OT but I predictably pointed out a potential blunder like this occurring when DJ didn’t bench Stu the last time he gave away the puck against CBJ (in Ottawa). Next up is a giveaway potentially in the playoffs (unless this is properly addressed with Stu). Accountability is key and words eventually fall on deaf ears…I don’t see action and that is 100% on DJ

It was total tongue in cheek I personally think that the kids need more time to become perfect players. without a doubt they will have new coaches along the way, but it’s pretty obvious that DJ doesn’t like those kinds of give always, but they are rare enough that I don’t think a young guy needs a benching. It’s not so much the games as a combination of games and age. Maturity is an age thing, experience is a games played thing.

I think he needs both. I think they all need both, and it’s why I think all of those young guys are going to get a lot better as they get more consistent in the way they play the game, but also the effort level.

 

[JD1]

Maybe you guys didn't see it but I'm pretty sure Stuetzle never had another shift in that game the other night

 

[Burrowsaurus]

So what you’re saying is that the benching didn’t have the desired effect of raising the level of play of the stars immediately after the fact because it was meant to be a long game benching where the message takes a bit to sink in. I didn’t see the obvious here because I’m an ‘apologist’.

He’s the thing with Stu and the other kids; DJ can’t make them make the right plays all the time. I know it’s hard to imagine that the coach doesn’t play mind control, but it’s true. Stu will make boneheaded mistakes because he is young, lacks experience, and needs time to mature his game to a more mistake free version. This is how it works for virtually every single player ever.

DJ is teaching and developing the kids in a positive manner, and it looks like they are all responding. I’m not sure why people expect DJ to be able to make the kids play like savvy vets already.

DJ is just the de jour whipping post for the board, and we always seem to need one. The irony here is that he’s always purposly deflected the heat from his players towards himself, so he’s getting what he wants in essence.

On one side I agree. On the other….these guys make a lot of boneheaded defensive plays and boneheaded plays in general that end up as scoring chances against. And that’s been consistent for 4 years no matter who the players are. Yeah DJ can’t control their bodies out there on the ice. But…coaches job is to cut down on those. And it seems like he just can’t get these players to cut down on these very obvious clear brain farts.

 

[aragorn]

Maybe you guys didn't see it but I'm pretty sure Stuetzle never had another shift in that game the other night

Is that because that turnover by Stutzle ended the game?

On one side I agree. On the other….these guys make a lot of boneheaded defensive plays and boneheaded plays in general that end up as scoring chances against. And that’s been consistent for 4 years no matter who the players are. Yeah DJ can’t control their bodies out there on the ice. But…coaches job is to cut down on those. And it seems like he just can’t get these players to cut down on these very obvious clear brain farts.

I think they have cut down on their turnovers & are playing a lot better, outshooting a number of their opponents, they have definitely improved as a team this yr. However, BIG mistakes at the wrong time has ended a few of their games this yr too, poor goaltending has also made them chase a number of games & injuries have caused all kinds of problems with lineup changes including the bus load of goalies they have needed to play this yr. In the end they were really only a handful of games from being a playoff team & with some better luck & better goaltending could be in the playoffs this yr.

I'm all for better coaching & management, but some things are just not their fault. Past yrs are also questionable given they were rebuilding & transitioning with a very young group of players that as we see have seen need a maturation process. We need to look forward not backwards as to where this team can be with some decent goaltending they can be a playoff team & next yr IMO they should be. Whether that includes a new coach & management only the new ownership will decide that, but I think they have done a decent job improving this team this yr.

 

[Ice-Tray]

On one side I agree. On the other….these guys make a lot of boneheaded defensive plays and boneheaded plays in general that end up as scoring chances against. And that’s been consistent for 4 years no matter who the players are. Yeah DJ can’t control their bodies out there on the ice. But…coaches job is to cut down on those. And it seems like he just can’t get these players to cut down on these very obvious clear brain farts.

My point is that it’s happening less than it ever did, and the team is looking better in the D zone. Our forwards are executing their breakouts better as well.

it’s not a work of art yet, I agree

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[GCK]

Going into next year I think Stu and Brady need to stay together. Brady is the perfect winger for Stu. I’d put Batherson with them and have Norris with Giroux and Formenton or Greig. Pinto Formenton/Greig and Debrincat would be a good 3rd line.

 

[Very Stable Genius]

Going into next year I think Stu and Brady need to stay together. Brady is the perfect winger for Stu. I’d put Batherson with them and have Norris with Giroux and Formenton or Greig. Pinto Formenton/Greig and Debrincat would be a good 3rd line.

3rd liners can't be making $8-9M

 

[GCK]

3rd liners can't be making $8-9M

Then trade him.

 

[OD99]

Then trade him.

He's not a 3rd line player. It would be dumb to put him there.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

I'd rather three lines that can score vs just relying on two or one.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Going into next year I think Stu and Brady need to stay together. Brady is the perfect winger for Stu. I’d put Batherson with them and have Norris with Giroux and Formenton or Greig. Pinto Formenton/Greig and Debrincat would be a good 3rd line.

Reunite the Chucky - Norris - Batherson line. DBC - Stutzle - Giroux as top line and watch defenders shit themselves.

Relegate Joseph to 4th line and PKing for now and get a really good veteran 3rd liner for Pinto and Greig.

I think you'll like the results if you do that.

Assuming Norris is ever the same again, I hope to shit he is.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Reunite the Chucky - Norris - Batherson line. DBC - Stutzle - Giroux as top line and watch defenders shit themselves.

Relegate Joseph to 4th line and PKing for now and get a really good veteran 3rd liner for Pinto and Greig.

I think you'll like the results if you do that.

Assuming Norris is ever the same again, I hope to shit he is.

Be nice if we could do this. Do we have the $ and what to do with the goaltending.. but Beefing up that 3rd line would be an important improvement.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Be nice if we could do this. Do we have the $ and what to do with the goaltending.. but Beefing up that 3rd line would be an important improvement.

That's a good question. I guess it depends on the DBC situation, but I assume we will have a little to play with in terms of getting a 1B for Forsberg. That is, if Forsberg is even healthy and can even ever play again.

Let's say, for example, we can get a vet 3rd liner who has speed, you can perhaps look at moving Joseph 1 for 1 for a goalie - if that's even an option.

Those are the 2 areas though. 3rd line RW and G.

Defence is ready to go - with JBD making it as 7th IMO (Chab, Chyc, Sanderson the Great, Zub, Hamonic, Brannstrom).

Top 6, the only question is DBC, otherwise stellar. 3rd line needs work. 4th line Kastelic is a lock, the dude is money.

Forsberg as 1A or B with Soogard waiting behind in the AHL.

The roster doesn't need much work really, we just need some injury luck and 2 solid signings/trades.

 

[aragorn]

DeBrincat is not a 3rd liner he is a top line player, however since we have a number of very good players it bodes well for this team to spread the wealth around. Given how well Greig sometimes plays with DBC & Giroux next yr should be very interesting how they make up the top 3 lines. Hopefully, they get a deal done with DBC sooner rather than later & we can start talking about this team's potential for next season. Let's not forget that Giroux is 35 yrs old & only has two yrs left on his contract & who knows when he will retire but it's likely after this contract.

I think they need to move on from Brown, Watson, Gambrell, Joseph, Brassard, Kelly, Talbot, Holden & Brannstrom given his value has increased over the past few months. I'd give Gauthier another look maybe with Pinto & Greig to see if he has any offence to his game, he did in junior or wth his speed put him on the 4th line. I think Ostapchuk could make the team out of training camp. If Formenton returns they could have a very good 3rd line with Greig & Pinto. Chychrun & Kleven both have bombs from the blueline & they need that.

Tkachuk - Stutzle - Giroux
DBC - Norris - Batherson
Formenton - Greig - Pinto
Ostapchuk - Kastelic - Gauthier/Kelly/Soko

Chabot - Zub
Sanderson - Chychrun
Brannstrom - Hamonic
Kleven - JBD - I expect these two to replace the two above at some point next season.

??? - Forsberg
Sogaard - Merilainen/Ferguson

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

That's a good question. I guess it depends on the DBC situation, but I assume we will have a little to play with in terms of getting a 1B for Forsberg. That is, if Forsberg is even healthy and can even ever play again.

Let's say, for example, we can get a vet 3rd liner who has speed, you can perhaps look at moving Joseph 1 for 1 for a goalie - if that's even an option.

Those are the 2 areas though. 3rd line RW and G.

Defence is ready to go - with JBD making it as 7th IMO (Chab, Chyc, Sanderson the Great, Zub, Hamonic, Brannstrom).

Top 6, the only question is DBC, otherwise stellar. 3rd line needs work. 4th line Kastelic is a lock, the dude is money.

Forsberg as 1A or B with Soogard waiting behind in the AHL.

The roster doesn't need much work really, we just need some injury luck and 2 solid signings/trades.

I'm with you 100% on this.

 

[swiftwin]

As I stated a little while ago, this is Alfie all over again. Trying too hard to win it himself, and it ends up in the back ofyour net. He is learning lots, and he will learn to play within himself with maturity

Yep. It's all part of the learning process. Tkachuk also went through a similar phase a year or two ago.

Last season and early this season, when things went poorly for him, he'd be hard on himself and look dejected, often lacking confidence.
Then maybe since January, he's been on fire, playing like an elite player with a ton of confidence.
Then maybe the last couple weeks, things are going a little poorly, but he's still has the confidence knowing he's an elite player, so he's trying to force things and do too much himself.

It's all part of the maturation process. It's such a fine line between being a confident elite game breaking player and being a player who tries to do too much and makes mistakes from forcing plays. It's not as simple as "stop making mistakes". You don't want Stutzle playing safe simple hockey. That's for the Gambrells of the world.

 

[OD99]

I think they need to move on from...Brannstrom given his value has increased over the past few months.

I'd give Gauthier another look maybe with Pinto & Greig to see if he has any offence to his game, he did in junior or wth his speed put him on the 4th line.

This is where I see your size bias deceive you.

Move on from the player who is proving to be an important part of our D and who is making leaps in development but keep a guy who is big (but soft) and hasn't scored as a pro at all.

Gauthier won't be back (Brown is playing over him), nor should he be.

We need good players, not just big players.

 

[GCK]

Reunite the Chucky - Norris - Batherson line. DBC - Stutzle - Giroux as top line and watch defenders shit themselves.

Relegate Joseph to 4th line and PKing for now and get a really good veteran 3rd liner for Pinto and Greig.

I think you'll like the results if you do that.

Assuming Norris is ever the same again, I hope to shit he is.

I think Stutzle really benefits from Tkachuk’s puck retrieval and his ability to win and control any puck that comes around the net. I think Stu’s offence takes a significant hit if they are separated.

That's a good question. I guess it depends on the DBC situation, but I assume we will have a little to play with in terms of getting a 1B for Forsberg. That is, if Forsberg is even healthy and can even ever play again.

Let's say, for example, we can get a vet 3rd liner who has speed, you can perhaps look at moving Joseph 1 for 1 for a goalie - if that's even an option.

Those are the 2 areas though. 3rd line RW and G.

Defence is ready to go - with JBD making it as 7th IMO (Chab, Chyc, Sanderson the Great, Zub, Hamonic, Brannstrom).

Top 6, the only question is DBC, otherwise stellar. 3rd line needs work. 4th line Kastelic is a lock, the dude is money.

Forsberg as 1A or B with Soogard waiting behind in the AHL.

The roster doesn't need much work really, we just need some injury luck and 2 solid signings/trades.

You ran out of cap space.