Ticket/Attendance Discussion: The Sequel

[Mad Dog Tannen]

Statistically speaking a person experiencing homelessness is far more likely to be the victim of a violent crime then perpetrator of one.

Here’s a nice paper that summarizes this point as well as others. I just read the summary findings - so not sure what all is in the doc - might be good reference material for people wading in on this - and however it pertains to season tickets.

https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/lbrr/archives/cnmcs-plcng/cn35305-eng.pdf

A few things on your specific comment - last time I read anything on this, while homeless are more likely to be victims of violent crime - the most common people committing acts of violence are other homeless people (second highest category) and youth/young people that feel threatened or are the victims of property crimes etc. the youth tend to “over react” where maybe empathy, or another de-escalation technique would be more effective - probably a product of age and experience.

That being said - that info is from memory - it’s been a long time since I read up on any specifics.

There needs to be a blend of empathy (slayer) and accountability (buffdog) - not sure it’s a one or the other solution.

But man - those season tickets!!


Speaking of de-escalation techniques, also a great tool TNSE SHOULD have been using IMO. That’s why I’m team buffdog - it has nothing to do on the specifics of the reason he couldn’t enter the building.

There was a fairly significant change to requirements to see a hockey game that didn’t exist. Someone can’t meet those requirements for whatever reason - just return the deposit and move on. Was the 1500 deposit worth losing a potential customer coming back? Absolutey not.

Technically every apartment landlord could keep the initial deposit. Not apartment is exactly the same condition prior to and after moving out. There’s a spirit of intent - if you become known as someone that never returns deposits people find other places to rent.

Same thing with entertain t people will find other places to spend their money - assuming they have any to spend.

 

[WolfHouse]

Wow... TNSE has only 15% of revenue from corp support - lowest in Canada

Make all the excuses you want about lack of HQ in Winnipeg, etc... there's a ton of massively Winnipeg loyal corps located in the city and Im sure if there was SOMETHING coming back for corporate investment TNSE would lock down 30% of their ticket base/revenue in a heartbeat

 

[Cypruss]

And how can the poster call him "awful" after only being elected this past fall. I'm not a fan of the NDP but the previous government was no great shakes. I'm willing to give Wab et al. a chance.

To be overly fair....I am not at all NDP supporter either, and do not like Mr. Kinew. I really, really, really do not like Singh. I was scared when Kinew won the election for how the province was going to fare..

My wife looks at me funny these days where there have been like 4 significant changes / promises that he has made or already acted upon. I have agreed with his stance on 3 of the 4. My wife is starting to think I'm a clone and not the real me.

I mean, ya, he won the election of Manitoba voters (well, Winnipeg voters at least). So far, this skeptic has been pleasantly surprised that I am not constantly upset at the direction of the province under his direction. Ya, early days, but some pretty reasonable rational decisions coming from the Leg.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I did pick my words very carefully for that post to stay within the lines. I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing people in the direction of a dataset and letting them arrive at their own conclusions.

I appreciate the leniency nonetheless, if it steers conversation too far away from what you'd want on a hockey forum I understand.

It’s sad when telling the truth, such as reporting the reality of the situation, can get you “cancelled”.

Definitely a sign of the times.

 

[jokesondee]

Wow... TNSE has only 15% of revenue from corp support - lowest in Canada

Make all the excuses you want about lack of HQ in Winnipeg, etc... there's a ton of massively Winnipeg loyal corps located in the city and Im sure if there was SOMETHING coming back for corporate investment TNSE would lock down 30% of their ticket base/revenue in a heartbeat

And its not even close. If im not mistaken the other Canadian teams enjoy somewhere between 30%-40% corporate support on average.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

And its not even close. If im not mistaken the other Canadian teams enjoy somewhere between 30%-40% corporate support on average.

Isn’t Toronto at 50%?

 

[jokesondee]

Isn’t Toronto at 50%?

Quite possibly.

 

[Gm0ney]

A carefully curated snippet of the most negative responses Friesen could find? This article is just as unproductive as a puff piece would be.

It's not like there aren't some good points in there...

"Thousands upon thousands of dollars and I have 20 Scotia bank scarfs to show for it. Took away points cards, parking, and jacked concession prices… Now they wonder why the base is leaving them.”

Hey come on! I would add bobblehead giveaways to that pile of scarves...plus a couple of playoff whiteout waving towels, as well.

Seriously though, I always thought it was very strange that they started Jets Rewards in what, Season 2, when they had 13,000 seasons locked in and a big waiting list - only to shitcan the loyalty program...when ticket sales started to soften? I think they got it backwards...

"Shelli says when she cancelled her tickets, nobody even asked her why."

“When I cancelled my tickets they didn’t even care, didn’t ask why or nothing,” Ernie wrote. “Not even how they could help to keep me on, not even a thank you.”

They didn't ask me why either, but they did say sorry and thanks when I said I wasn't renewing in 2019. But since then I haven't received a thing... Like, I also had a Moose ticket pack the first year they came back (2016-17) and the Moose still send me stuff. But the 8 year full seasons aren't worth a follow up?

Anyway, when someone who's dropped thousands over years and years for your product decides they're out, you should at least be asking them why. How were they not?

“Compare it to the Bombers,” Brian wrote. “Wade Miller is out talking to local media. The head coach has a radio show during the season where he takes calls from listeners. It seems Jet ownership and management mostly talk only to outside media sources.”

This is another thing - I mean, what's with the hostility to local media? I get that Friesen's a jerk or whatever, but the whole organization is unwilling to do one-on-ones with locals? Chevy emerges from his den 2 or 3 times a year to spew his bafflegab. We only see Chipman when he wants more money. And he only talks to national media. Even if you think it's justified because they've pissed you off somehow, suck it up, be professional and reach out. If they give everyone the high hat like this then no wonder local businesses aren't lining up to bail these petty, arrogant assholes out.

Anyway, I don't think Friesen had to turn over too many rocks to find disgruntled former season ticket holders. Sounds like there's about 12,000 who were either former season ticket holders or who were on the waiting list in the past.

 

[pegcity]

Still lots of tickets for tonights game. Probably will be around 12-13K in attendance

 

[cbcwpg]

And its not even close. If im not mistaken the other Canadian teams enjoy somewhere between 30%-40% corporate support on average.

The 30%-40% is a bit low.

True North working hard to win back Jets fans

There is plenty of worry right now when it comes to the future of the Winnipeg Jets. A visit from Gary Bettman on Tuesday is only adding to the anxiety. The NHL commissioner is set to meet with Jets c...

www.winnipegfreepress.com

Another big issue is the lack of corporate support, with Chipman saying only about 15 per cent of all season ticket sales comes from that deep-pocketed demographic. That’s in stark contrast to the other six Canadian markets, where businesses make up anywhere from 45 to 85 per cent of the base, and it puts a ton of extra pressure on the general public to make up the shortfall.

***

He doesn't say which teams, but I don't think it takes a wild guess to assume the 85% is a team that wears blue and white. Look at the numbers... this means there are only ~2,800 tickets available to Joe Fan in Toronto to purchase. In a city of ~3 million people.

 

[Buffdog]

Here's my attempt to get back to as "on topic" as is possible for me lol

What's the upside to a company owning season tickets? I'm a small business owner... let's say I spend $12,000 on a set of P3s (ish)..it only makes sense if that investment increases my revenues by that amount or more.

I could spend that same amount of money on different types of marketing/advertising... for example, our ROI on Facebook ads is 15X

If the ROI isn't there, then I'm just taking that $12K out of my own pocket at the end of the day. Which is fine, but it's not a discussion about the business support anymore, because I've become a personal ticket holder vs a business one

 

[DannyGallivan]

Here's my attempt to get back to as "on topic" as is possible for me lol

What's the upside to a company owning season tickets? I'm a small business owner... let's say I spend $12,000 on a set of P3s (ish)..it only makes sense if that investment increases my revenues by that amount or more.

I could spend that same amount of money on different types of marketing/advertising... for example, our ROI on Facebook ads is 15X

If the ROI isn't there, then I'm just taking that $12K out of my own pocket at the end of the day. Which is fine, but it's not a discussion about the business support anymore, because I've become a personal ticket holder vs a business one

How much of that can you claim on your taxes as a business expense? If it ends up just being for personal use, the tax write off portion could lead to nice discounted seats. You still win.

 

[Gm0ney]

Here's my attempt to get back to as "on topic" as is possible for me lol

What's the upside to a company owning season tickets? I'm a small business owner... let's say I spend $12,000 on a set of P3s (ish)..it only makes sense if that investment increases my revenues by that amount or more.

I could spend that same amount of money on different types of marketing/advertising... for example, our ROI on Facebook ads is 15X

If the ROI isn't there, then I'm just taking that $12K out of my own pocket at the end of the day. Which is fine, but it's not a discussion about the business support anymore, because I've become a personal ticket holder vs a business one

Can't businesses deduct 50% of entertainment costs? So you're getting tickets half price...

 

[tbcwpg]

It's not like there aren't some good points in there...

"Thousands upon thousands of dollars and I have 20 Scotia bank scarfs to show for it. Took away points cards, parking, and jacked concession prices… Now they wonder why the base is leaving them.”

Hey come on! I would add bobblehead giveaways to that pile of scarves...plus a couple of playoff whiteout waving towels, as well.

Seriously though, I always thought it was very strange that they started Jets Rewards in what, Season 2, when they had 13,000 seasons locked in and a big waiting list - only to shitcan the loyalty program...when ticket sales started to soften? I think they got it backwards...

"Shelli says when she cancelled her tickets, nobody even asked her why."

“When I cancelled my tickets they didn’t even care, didn’t ask why or nothing,” Ernie wrote. “Not even how they could help to keep me on, not even a thank you.”

They didn't ask me why either, but they did say sorry and thanks when I said I wasn't renewing in 2019. But since then I haven't received a thing... Like, I also had a Moose ticket pack the first year they came back (2016-17) and the Moose still send me stuff. But the 8 year full seasons aren't worth a follow up?

Anyway, when someone who's dropped thousands over years and years for your product decides they're out, you should at least be asking them why. How were they not?

“Compare it to the Bombers,” Brian wrote. “Wade Miller is out talking to local media. The head coach has a radio show during the season where he takes calls from listeners. It seems Jet ownership and management mostly talk only to outside media sources.”

This is another thing - I mean, what's with the hostility to local media? I get that Friesen's a jerk or whatever, but the whole organization is unwilling to do one-on-ones with locals? Chevy emerges from his den 2 or 3 times a year to spew his bafflegab. We only see Chipman when he wants more money. And he only talks to national media. Even if you think it's justified because they've pissed you off somehow, suck it up, be professional and reach out. If they give everyone the high hat like this then no wonder local businesses aren't lining up to bail these petty, arrogant assholes out.

Anyway, I don't think Friesen had to turn over too many rocks to find disgruntled former season ticket holders. Sounds like there's about 12,000 who were either former season ticket holders or who were on the waiting list in the past.

I don't doubt the people he quoted are lying about their experience and the customer service does suck - I'm just saying that I don't doubt Friesen went into it looking for that response and would lean towards publishing those.

They do speak with local media. Murat has interviewed Chipman and Chevy. The team is available to local media almost every day. And the local media has done it to themselves with Billeck's implication that Hellebuyck doesn't care if his son gets Covid or Friesen pushing a young Samberg about his car accident - not major issues in the scheme of things but I'm sure part of this family environment Chipman is trying to curate is backing the players in that regard. In Philly, when Torts refuses to talk to that blogger who said Hayes told Gauthier not to sign there, he's praised for it.

 

[Guardian17]

Has anyone heard any confirmation on if the "fireside chat" with Bettman and Chipman will be televised or streamed today?

 

[WolfHouse]

The 30%-40% is a bit low.

True North working hard to win back Jets fans

There is plenty of worry right now when it comes to the future of the Winnipeg Jets. A visit from Gary Bettman on Tuesday is only adding to the anxiety. The NHL commissioner is set to meet with Jets c...

www.winnipegfreepress.com

Another big issue is the lack of corporate support, with Chipman saying only about 15 per cent of all season ticket sales comes from that deep-pocketed demographic. That’s in stark contrast to the other six Canadian markets, where businesses make up anywhere from 45 to 85 per cent of the base, and it puts a ton of extra pressure on the general public to make up the shortfall.

***

He doesn't say which teams, but I don't think it takes a wild guess to assume the 85% is a team that wears blue and white. Look at the numbers... this means there are only ~2,800 tickets available to Joe Fan in Toronto to purchase. In a city of ~3 million people.

I mean this just looks lazy now... and it looks like TNSE knows that they can threaten their fanbase...

A. I'll double down on my belief that if Chipman called David Thomson Great Duke of Scantebury the Third to get 20-30 of his corp friends to step up... he'd have that in a heartbeat - this is chump change and a write off corporations

B. TNSE needs to and will build more corporate suites

C. What is the benefits offered to business? I cant see companies like Seagrams, ANY of the small brew pubs (maybe together?), Cargill, Richardson, Monsanto, First Nations, Tough Duck, Canadinns, car dealers like Vickar, etc etc buying corp suites or packages... but what exactly are they getting back? Seems like f*** all has been offered. Like if you get an event with some Jets players at your facility once or twice a year as part of your corp package - that goes a long way in sales/PR...

D. I think the larger concern - and the elephant in the room - is that the Jets likely do not attract the betting revenue that larger fanbases and American $$ do - including Arizona...

 

[jetsfan15]

A carefully curated snippet of the most negative responses Friesen could find? This article is just as unproductive as a puff piece would be.

The Friesen article from today is silly. I’m sure he got many responses, some calling him out and some agreeing with him, and many in between. He appears to have cherry picked the worst or most extreme responses agreeing with him without even presenting responses from some readers who may have disagreed with his original article. Basically he has an agenda and included things to only support that. It’s about as biased as it comes. He starts off the article with the first reader response comparing attending a jets game to a prison. That’s when I stopped reading the article; it’s ridiculous and extreme.

 

[gojetsgo]

Bettman was quick to shoot down a question about the potential threat of relocation.


“No. Not at all. It’s never been discussed, it’s never been considered,” Bettman said during a conversation that lasted nearly 12 minutes. “It’s talk like that, that is so destructive and unfair to everything that this organization and ownership has stood for.”

 

[KingBogo]

The Friesen article from today is silly. I’m sure he got many responses, some calling him out and some agreeing with him, and many in between. He appears to have cherry picked the worst or most extreme responses agreeing with him without even presenting responses from some readers who may have disagreed with his original article. Basically he has an agenda and included things to only support that. It’s about as biased as it comes. He starts off the article with the first reader response comparing attending a jets game to a prison. That’s when I stopped reading the article; it’s ridiculous and extreme.

I haven't read a Friesen article in years, and refuse to as a matter of principle. In no way do I want to be part of him having employment or supporting any so called media outlet that would employ him.

 

[Ray Mercer]

Can't businesses deduct 50% of entertainment costs? So you're getting tickets half price...

50% of the ticket cost would be tax deductible. I think Chipman is looking more towards larger corporate business as opposed to smaller business owners. Companies like Manitoba Hydro, Canada Life, Princess Auto, Richardson, MCI, Monsanto, New Flyer, Cargill, Palliser etc. should be footing the bill. His sales team should be going aggressive at these companies offering advertising space etc. to get them to purchase large volumes of tickets.

 

[HighFlyingJets]

Looking at ticketmaster, looks like an expected attendance of 13,500 or less!

Will be a good showing for Bettman haha

 

[CorgisPer60]

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Gary Bettman media availability.

 

[None]

Maybe Gary'll come out and say something positive about Winnipeg's fanbase while acknowledging that corporate support is lacking. That would have me looking outside for flying pigs.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Here's my attempt to get back to as "on topic" as is possible for me lol

What's the upside to a company owning season tickets? I'm a small business owner... let's say I spend $12,000 on a set of P3s (ish)..it only makes sense if that investment increases my revenues by that amount or more.

I could spend that same amount of money on different types of marketing/advertising... for example, our ROI on Facebook ads is 15X

If the ROI isn't there, then I'm just taking that $12K out of my own pocket at the end of the day. Which is fine, but it's not a discussion about the business support anymore, because I've become a personal ticket holder vs a business one

I've had a few businesses take me to dinner before at some pretty fancy restaurants, as part of a charm offensive to hire me or sell me their product. I guess something similar would be the main reason. Or if you're just a really rich business, you have some wiggle room for fun stuff (like season tickets) that nobody is going to blink an eye at when you look at the bottom line of your profit.

It would be a lot harder to justify for a small business unless you are really raking in the cash, or wooing new customers in person is a big part of your activities.

 

[WolfHouse]

50% of the ticket cost would be tax deductible. I think Chipman is looking more towards larger corporate business opposed to smaller business owners. Companies like Manitoba Hydro, Canada Life, Princess auto, skip the dishes, MCI, Monsanto, Cargill, Palliser etc. should be footing the bill.

If they set up a program where corporate dollars could purchase suites as a 'donation' to kids groups/charities or advertising (which would be very easy for TNSE to partner with/comply with) - you can write off 100%