Ticket/Attendance Discussion: The Sequel

[SLAYER]

What would you consider an unjust law?

There are countless examples throughout history, I can't even begin to list them all. The genocide of the Indigenous peoples is/was considered lawful and just. The enslavement of the African peoples was considered lawful. Before the 1900's, English was the only lawful language of Manitoba despite the fact that it was originally settled by the Metis people. Racially segregated schools were at one point lawful as well.

There are also many unjust laws in our society today, you need not look too hard to find some.

However, this was not the point of my original argument. My point is that using "the law" as a barometer for morality of what is good/right is hypocritical as the law is never moral or good or meant for all people of a society.

I'm tired of debating this on a hockey forum; however. We are so far past the ticket/attendance discussion that I can't even see the arena any more! I really only wanted to point out that people advocating for the incarceration of our homeless population are lacking empathy and understanding.

It's the only way my friend.

This is factually incorrect.

 

[JKG33]

With Betman in town, how fitting is it that its the coldest day of the year?

I dont know why i get a chuckle out of this, but i do.

I thought the exact same thing this morning lol

 

[MarkWheeler]

Whether you think Friesen is a hack or not, the most productive thing they could do is make Chipman sit in front of an arena full of fans and read this article.
Chipman and True North, it’s time to wake up. You’re the biggest problem here.
Upset fans weigh in on Jets attendance woes, threat to leave

 

[abax44]

This should be common knowledge but it won't change based off of who this province elects. We now have an awful premier and a terrible mayor. I don't see any way forward. As long as stuff like this keeps happening, people should be prepared to keep losing things they enjoy.

"Now have an awful premier"... what did we have before the current one?

 

[CorgisPer60]

I should go back and read some of the last three pages because apparently we've gone from talking about tickets and Attendance issues, to tackling homelessness and criminality regarding lawful practices that are no longer lawful or just.

 

[Buffdog]

No, I brought up murder, not killing. The two are different concepts, you're moving the scope of the argument.

Also, I don't recall having any say in which laws we should have, do you? The point I was illustrating (which you've missed) is that touting the law like some sort of champion of morality is hypocritical and is never an acceptable argument for what is right/good. All other arguments/counters are missing the point.

Where I come from, when something is broken we mend it. We look at what caused the issue and fix it. We don't look at the less fortunate and say "These people are law breakers, we need to round them up and punish them. They're unsightly and bother us and make us uncomfortable." So no, I don't think I will "remove myself" from society. Instead I think I will help to fix society, despite some people's best efforts to the contrary.

You're making a lot assumptions about me and putting words in my mouth

No, I didn't get a say in the laws that are on the books (the idea of actual representation in our "democracy" is a joke). No, I have no power to change them. It doesn't mean I'll pick and choose which ones to to adhere to. I fully understand rhe difference between "legal" "and "moral"

I'm not talking about locking people up because I don't like looking at them. I'm talking about when they infringe on the right of others. People should have the right to consume whatever drugs they choose to, live and sleep where they wish. But when their behaviour turns to vandalism, assault, and theft of other people's property, there needs to be consequences.

The fact that our society is moving more into the direction you want it to, yet all these problems are getting worse is ironic, sad, and yet somehow lost on you

 

[B33R LEAGUE]

Not sure how this conversation went from

"Why arent Winnipeg's corporations supporting the team"
to
"Whats wrong with homeless people"

but thank god there's a game on tonight.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Thank you for sharing your story.

Ditto, thanks @Joe Hallenback .

 

[tbcwpg]

If you’re saying we’re culturally inferior, you just scored some points using my downtown cleanliness and crime example.

I think the improvement in NYC is the more relevant example then.

I'm not saying inferior or superior. But there is a difference on where priorities lie. NYC is growing increasingly expensive so that may be a factor but I won't pretend I know about their management of the homeless so I don't know how apt that example is.

There is, and we used to be a society that wasn't too far off from Japan. Only more recent have things gone to shit here, and it's really easy yet extremely politically incorrect to connect the dots.

Look at the cultural makeup of neighborhoods where stores lock up everything in a cage vs the makeup of neighborhoods where customers can shop freely.

Very close to crossing a forum line with this one.

With Betman in town, how fitting is it that its the coldest day of the year?

I dont know why i get a chuckle out of this, but i do.

Dante's Inferno depicts the ninth circle of hell where Satan lives as not a lake of fire but a freezing wasteland. Maybe Bettman brought this weather with him

 

[JKG33]

Very close to crossing a forum line with this one.

I did pick my words very carefully for that post to stay within the lines. I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing people in the direction of a dataset and letting them arrive at their own conclusions.

I appreciate the leniency nonetheless, if it steers conversation too far away from what you'd want on a hockey forum I understand.

 

[scelaton]

What would you consider an unjust law?

There have been countless unjust laws over time. Just in the last ~ century, there have been discriminatory laws segregating blacks, restricting rights of homosexuals, and preventing women from voting. None of these would have been changed without people protesting on the streets/ civil disobedience.

Quite aside from laws though, and further to Joe's family story, there is a burgeoning literature on how dominant cultures and systems create misery in vulnerable groups, then blame and incarcerate them for the consequences.

It's a bit like the eye test in hockey. Appearances can be deceiving, so best to go read about what's under the surface, if you want to better understand. It'll make you uncomfortable, but smarter.

See what I did there? It's a hockey post now so mods can't delete it.

 

[SLAYER]

You're making a lot assumptions about me and putting words in my mouth

No, I didn't get a say in the laws that are on the books (the idea of actual representation in our "democracy" is a joke). No, I have no power to change them. It doesn't mean I'll pick and choose which ones to to adhere to. I fully understand rhe difference between "legal" "and "moral"

I'm not talking about locking people up because I don't like looking at them. I'm talking about when they infringe on the right of others. People should have the right to consume whatever drugs they choose to, live and sleep where they wish. But when their behaviour turns to vandalism, assault, and theft of other people's property, there needs to be consequences.

The fact that our society is moving more into the direction you want it to, yet all these problems are getting worse is ironic, sad, and yet somehow lost on you

I don't believe this is the case, and if I have misinterpreted your words then my apologies.

Putting your rights to enjoy a hockey game downtown above the rights of all citizens to exist, have a home, be clothed and fed, is unacceptable and lacks empathy imo.

Anyways, I've ranted enough in this thread for the next few seasons so I'll spare everyone the wall of text and be done with this discussion. My bad if I've offended anyone with my theories of... helping the needy in today's society.

 

[RetroWinnipeg]

How I imagine Bettman’s interaction with fans will go…

 

[Ggg99]

Whether you think Friesen is a hack or not, the most productive thing they could do is make Chipman sit in front of an arena full of fans and read this article.
Chipman and True North, it’s time to wake up. You’re the biggest problem here.
Upset fans weigh in on Jets attendance woes, threat to leave

The closest you'll get to that is the "Fireside Chat" tonight with Chipman, Bettman, key sponsors, business leaders, members of the media and even some fans.

My vote would be to include some of the former and current season ticket holders on this board who have documented well their experiences. #Buffdog for one. I'd be happy to volunteer too.

But I'm sure those hand picked "fans" will do well reading their vetted questions.

Will be interesting. Must see tv for Jet fans.

 

[Buffdog]

I don't believe this is the case, and if I have misinterpreted your words then my apologies.

Putting your rights to enjoy a hockey game downtown above the rights of all citizens to exist, have a home, be clothed and fed, is unacceptable and lacks empathy imo.

Anyways, I've ranted enough in this thread for the next few seasons so I'll spare everyone the wall of text and be done with this discussion. My bad if I've offended anyone with my theories of... helping the needy in today's society.

Yeah, we were talking at each other but not with each other. I agree with the bolded part 100%, and I think most reasonable people would

There's a difference between "enjoying a hockey game" and being the victim of a crime though. And I think that's what we're talking about here

 

[tbcwpg]

Whether you think Friesen is a hack or not, the most productive thing they could do is make Chipman sit in front of an arena full of fans and read this article.
Chipman and True North, it’s time to wake up. You’re the biggest problem here.
Upset fans weigh in on Jets attendance woes, threat to leave

A carefully curated snippet of the most negative responses Friesen could find? This article is just as unproductive as a puff piece would be.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I say we allow homeless people to live in the arena and attend games.

Solves 2 issues, attendance and homelessness.

 

[KingBogo]

Yeah, we were talking at each other but not with each other. I agree with the bolded part 100%, and I think most reasonable people would

There's a difference between "enjoying a hockey game" and being the victim of a crime though. And I think that's what we're talking about here

Statistically speaking a person experiencing homelessness is far more likely to be the victim of a violent crime then perpetrator of one.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I don't believe this is the case, and if I have misinterpreted your words then my apologies.

Putting your rights to enjoy a hockey game downtown above the rights of all citizens to exist, have a home, be clothed and fed, is unacceptable and lacks empathy imo.

Anyways, I've ranted enough in this thread for the next few seasons so I'll spare everyone the wall of text and be done with this discussion. My bad if I've offended anyone with my theories of... helping the needy in today's society.

I will be happy to also leave this particular debate, but I must point out that your middle paragraph is factually incorrect. A sidewalk or bus shelter is nobody’s home. Also, I have never seen an argument pitting going to a hockey game versus anybody’s right to food and clothing.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

Wow. This ticket/attendance thread got political fast.

Both sides have fair points I’m sure.

Anyways - hope the ticket drive is going well.

I wonder when we will receive an update.

Even though I am out of province - just committed to a quarter season. Customer service has been excellent so far.

 

[jiho]

Ticket sales talk is going to be nothing compared to when we get to the time when we debate our money going to build a new arena.

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

"Now have an awful premier"... what did we have before the current one?

And how can the poster call him "awful" after only being elected this past fall. I'm not a fan of the NDP but the previous government was no great shakes. I'm willing to give Wab et al. a chance.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Ticket sales talk is going to be nothing compared to when we get to the time when we debate our money going to build a new arena.

The arena is 20 years old, only 7 in the league are newer than ours. And TNSE just spent nine figures on upgrading it over the last decade. So I think that conversation is a long way off... in no way could anyone say that Winnipeg has outgrown the current arena.

 

[jorbjorb]

I say we allow homeless people to live in the arena and attend games.

Solves 2 issues, attendance and homelessness.

Sit them all behind the opposing team's bench.

 

[Buffdog]

Sit them all on the opposing team's bench.

Fixed it