Ticket/Attendance Discussion: The Sequel

[Section 325]

There are many people that have said they were in season ticket share groups with friends and family but they've needed to drop their tickets because when certain people leave the group they can't afford to pick up the difference. Why don't the Jets help share groups more than they do? I'm sure there are tons of people out there that just want one or two people extra.

A share group "community" or something?

 

[Finnflash]

This whole thing disappoints me.

The disconnect is that for some fans this is not “just business”.

Once you threaten “we might have to move the team” you have lost me.

 

[imec]

This whole thing disappoints me.

The disconnect is that for some fans this is not “just business”.

Once you threaten “we might have to move the team” you have lost me.

I don’t see it as a threat at all. This is a business - support it or it leaves. Simple.

 

[Edgar Halliwax]

If Bettman is allowing some fans to ask questions while he's in the city this week, here's one: "Mr. Commissioner, will you commit to putting as much effort into making the NHL work in Winnipeg as you've put in to the Coyotes for almost 30 years?"

I'd love to see someone ask that question and see how much he twists the truth with his response.

 

[AnonoJet]

If Bettman is allowing some fans to ask questions while he's in the city this week, here's one: "Mr. Commissioner, will you commit to putting as much effort into making the NHL work in Winnipeg as you've put in to the Coyotes for almost 30 years?"

I'd love to see someone ask that question and see how much he twists the truth with his response.

Ya, let’s go ahead and alienate a guy who we want as an ally Bettman is a key reason we have this franchise in the first place. He could easily have turned down TN buying the franchise. But he didn’t.

People keep bringing up the Coyotes, as if it’s some kind of powerful argument to stake a claim as not being as bad as that nonsense franchise. Losing and irrelevant argument.

 

[jetsfan15]

Any chance the Moose are moved to help push Jets attendance upward? Is the cost savings of having them here along with $$ from the usage of the CLC part of the problem. Tough call when the owner is a major real estate developer and owns the arena. A brief google search and it seems like they weren’t really intended to come back to Winnipeg except for some circumstances maybe out of team control.
I’m sure it’s a more affordable option for people to watch, but with Jets offering 1/4 season packages now, I would assume watching the highest level possible would be attractive alternative.
Could AHL team work in Fargo, Grand Forks, or Sioux Falls? Expand the Jets fan base.

I have actually thought many times about whether Winnipeg is a sufficiently large market to support both an NHL & AHL team. Last year we even had a WHL team - I definitely don’t think Winnipeg is large enough of a market to support all 3 of those leagues at once. That was too much. While there are obviously different target audiences between the Moose and the Jets and some of the people attending a Moose game wouldn’t attend a Jets game, and vice versa, there is still more overlap than people think. Example: I take my kid to let’s say 5 Moose games. Let’s say there is no longer an AHL team in town next year, only the jets. I probably end up going to early afternoon weekend jets games instead in the upper bowl somewhere (maybe to 2 or 3 games instead, I don’t know, but the fact is that it would be additional seats bought for Jets games vs. moose games). And maybe to make it better for families if the moose leave, the Jets could have special pricing in the upper bowl for Jets games in the afternoon specifically for kids under a certain age, or something like that. You do have to invest and generate interest at a young age. A block of seats in the P7 area for afternoon games for families where tickets for kids under a certain age are a cheaper? I don’t know. Just a thought.

There is also the issue of corporate sponsors needing to split revenue between moose & jets, or having to choose between the two. I’m just not convinced that a market of roughly 800,000 people can support both an NHL & AHL club simultaneously long term. I don’t think the Moose are the main reason for the jets’ attendance issues by any means; don’t get me wrong here, that’s not what I’m saying. But I don’t think it helps. We also have a CFL team in town that I think our city is very passionate about (other than Saskatchewan, our city is more passionate about our CFL team than any other CFL market - so there are more corporate sponsor dollars going there to the blue bombers than perhaps other CFL markets too).

 

[Buffdog]

I think you were being a bit pedantic by reading it as they were canceling the ticket policy - the other alternative was that they keep billing you for tickets and you sell them or don't go. The choice to cancel the agreement is ultimately the ticket holder's unless there is some breach of the agreement - the agreement is separate from your ability to actually get into the building in this case. So I do think that you were digging your heels in over something that you were ultimately incorrect about. I'm not a lawyer but I imagine that the argument would be pretty easy to make that, despite the wording there, you are ultimately deciding on canceling. Especially given that that option clearly ends with "Or;" and not "this is your only choice".

Interesting....

We have an agreement that I wouldn't punch you, but something came up and I have indeed decided that l will punch you. You have two choices..

1. I can punch your the face

2. I can punch you in the gut

Since you decided #1, I guess it was your choice to get punched in the face

No shit you're not a lawyer.... maybe stop playing one on the internet

 

[jetsfan15]

There are many people that have said they were in season ticket share groups with friends and family but they've needed to drop their tickets because when certain people leave the group they can't afford to pick up the difference. Why don't the Jets help share groups more than they do? I'm sure there are tons of people out there that just want one or two people extra.

A share group "community" or something?

I think TNSE made a mistake by not offering solutions to these issues sooner. That being said, they are addressing the issues now by offering quarter season (~10 games) & half season (~20 games) memberships for next year. They also had all kinds of different types of mini pack options this year with different categories/types of games, which I assume they will have for next season as well. I think these things largely address the “full season or nothing” issues that large groups of people who shared seats were having. TNSE should have offered these options sooner, but better late than never - the options are there now for those who left for these types of lack of flexibility reasons (I think a lot of people left due to this, perhaps some will come back now with the increased flexibility in ticket package options)

 

[macmaroon]

Comes in to read some of the hundred or so posts...

Quietly hits the back button and goes to the Humour Thread...

 

[jetsfan15]

I don’t see it as a threat at all. This is a business - support it or it leaves. Simple.

Yes, and while certainly the club and TNSE have a responsibility to give back to the community, etc., this is a club worth hundreds of millions of dollars that needs to spend over 80 million dollars per year on players to remain competitive. The club is competing against 31 other markets - all of which are larger markets than Winnipeg. I don’t understand when people say “Thompson is wealthy”, etc. The reality in this world is wealthy people don’t typically run multi-million dollar businesses at a loss. It’s not realistic in any market really, whether we like it or not. There aren’t many franchise owners who would keep a team in the 32nd largest market in the league operating in a building that is second last in total attendance (I think?) and, more importantly given the size of our arena, 3rd last in attendance percentage (I think?).

 

[ps241]

I spoke at length (TL DR) on our site about 13 months ago. I was so pissed off at True North’s brain dead passive aggressive you better buy tickets or we may leave again marketing campaign that I had to rage post (which I typically avoid). To me it was symbolic of the total disconnect between Mark and his ticket buying customers past and present. Doubling down on his entitlement mentality culture that had been pervasive throughout his organization since the original ticket drive. Mark seemed to be bitter and perhaps feeling sorry for himself.

Business is complicated and there are a million ways up and down the mountain of success. One rule that will never change is “blaming your customers“ for a drop in demand is NEVER going to work out well for you. I felt last spring Mark was pissed off at the Winnipeg fans for turning their back on the Jets. Mark seemed to feel entitled to a full building based on his Herculean effort to bring the Jets back to Winnipeg. It turns out that bought him 10 years but he didn’t get the lifetime exemption from supply and demand he was hoping for.

Fast forward to the February 23rd planned interview for the Athletic with Chris Johnson and I was reluctant to click on it and read the latest installment of the “poor me” Mark Chipman world tour 2024. I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised by what I read if Mark was being sincere.

Heading out to take my son to his hockey practice and I will be back to break down my thoughts on his interview.

 

[bustamente]

Todays opponents have played in front of crowds like this in the past and now they play in 5k university arena and they are not even the main tenant, I don't hear anything about them moving due to attendance. Coyotes have not made a thin dime since moving to Arizona and yet they are still there. Nobody really watches their games on tv or listens on the radio and yet they seem to be cemented in Arizona.

 

[AnonoJet]

Arizona sucking as a franchise has nothing to do with whatever ends up happening here. Bettman‘s support for Arizona could end up being a double standard. Still makes them irrelevant. The double standard argument is a losing argument.

 

[Channelcat]

I don’t see it as a threat at all. This is a business - support it or it leaves. Simple.

I agree. The "threat" thing is being overstated. Chipman did no such thing.

 

[Hobble]

What is the point of owning the arena, owning RE properties and businesses surrounding said arena (including a casino club), and having two wealthy co-owners with other profitable businesses, when we have two weak seasons after a history of poor service and pandemic/inflation, only for them to fire up the “Buy more STs or we’ll leave” bat signal?

Might be an insane idea, but how about you just reduce concession prices by half? Crowds will probably eat/drink more, be more lively, and help make a better game atmosphere?

 

[lotwwpg]

Guys stop bringing up the yotes, it's a completely different issue.

 

[jungles]

Guys stop bringing up the yotes, it's a completely different issue.

I think some Jets fans are rightly suspicious that the move to Winnipeg was always a temporary thing to hold a team until such time that a more "desirable" location was ready. Contrasting the reaction of Bettman and the league to the smallest sign of trouble in Winnipeg vs. their endless tolerance to the gong show in Arizona is relevant, IMO.

If they want to move the team to Utah, this is a great way to throw up their hands and say "sorry fans, you blew it".

 

[Channelcat]

What is the point of owning the arena, owning RE properties and businesses surrounding said arena (including a casino club), and having two wealthy co-owners with other profitable businesses, when we have two weak seasons after a history of poor service and pandemic/inflation, only for them to fire up the “Buy more STs or we’ll leave” bat signal?

Might be an insane idea, but how about you just reduce concession prices by half? Crowds will probably eat/drink more, be more lively, and help make a better game atmosphere?

I believe we already have the cheapest concessions in Canada.

 

[abax44]

This is exactly it

TNSE made their bed with regards to people like me, and now they are complaining about having to be in it

All it would take is a simple "hey, those were crazy times, we did what we needed to do to stay afloat... we understand why you feel the way you do about us keeping your deposit, so we've changed our minds and here it is back. We'd love to see you in the stands again one day"

I'd be a season ticket holder for life

I don't get it... why won't TNSE re-write their policies for this guy. IT'S NOT FAIR!!!

I believe we already have the cheapest concessions in Canada.

We also have the fewest asses in seats in Canada.

 

[tbcwpg]

Interesting....

We have an agreement that I wouldn't punch you, but something came up and I have indeed decided that l will punch you. You have two choices..

1. I can punch your the face

2. I can punch you in the gut

Since you decided #1, I guess it was your choice to get punched in the face

No shit you're not a lawyer.... maybe stop playing one on the internet

I'm not sure any lawyer could respond to you properly when you leave out both your email to TNSE and the other option they gave you. At least in your silly hypothetical you gave me both options to choose from.

You shared the situation and said "since some people think I'm being unreasonable" on the internet and are upset someone replied to that. That's the internet.

 

[Buffdog]

I don't get it... why won't TNSE re-write their policies for this guy. IT'S NOT FAIR!!!


We also have the fewest asses in seats in Canada.

Um, because the lack off asses in seats has resulted in negative national media attention and widespread ridicule of their organization and our city, and I'm and ass that would fill a seat tommorow

I'm not sure any lawyer could respond to you properly when you leave out both your email to TNSE and the other option they gave you. At least in your silly hypothetical you gave me both options to choose from.

You shared the situation and said "since some people think I'm being unreasonable" on the internet and are upset someone replied to that. That's the internet.

I'm not upset. If I wanted a legal opinion, I'd call a real lawyer

At the end of.the day, TNSE has chosen to alienate a customer for life over $1500... all while threatening to move the team if you don't spend more money

 

[lotwwpg]

I think some Jets fans are rightly suspicious that the move to Winnipeg was always a temporary thing to hold a team until such time that a more "desirable" location was ready. Contrasting the reaction of Bettman and the league to the smallest sign of trouble in Winnipeg vs. their endless tolerance to the gong show in Arizona is relevant, IMO.

If they want to move the team to Utah, this is a great way to throw up their hands and say "sorry fans, you blew it".

NHL wants a team in Phoenix, a larger market, a growing city, etc. I would argue Winnipeg is growing pretty fast, but I digress. NHL believes even if Winnipeg loses their team, there will still be fans here who will watch hockey regardless. Whereas in Phoenix they still have the potential to turn people into potential fans.

And for the fans being suspicious and giving up supporting the team because of Winnipeg being a temporary location is just dumb. The team will probably move if Chipman can't find a buyer here in Winnipeg or gets an attractive offer from a billionaire.

Comparing them to us doesn't help our argument in keeping them.

 

[tbcwpg]

Um, because the lack off asses in seats has resulted in negative national media attention and widespread ridicule of their organization and our city, and I'm and ass that would fill a seat tommorow


I'm not upset. If I wanted a legal opinion, I'd call a real lawyer

At the end of.the day, TNSE has chosen to alienate a customer for life over $1500... all while threatening to move the team if you don't spend more money

Fair, you're entitled to not want to support them anymore based on your experience, but I don't think they're threatening to move the team. I think it's the difference between being able to sign players like Scheifele and Hellebuyck to 7 year extensions and not being able to do that.

 

[Buffdog]

Fair, you're entitled to not want to support them anymore based on your experience, but I don't think they're threatening to move the team. I think it's the difference between being able to sign players like Scheifele and Hellebuyck to 7 year extensions and not being able to do that.

So what happens when they can't afford those extensions? Could you imagine our team this year without schief and helle?

The Jets are a top 3 team in the NHL right now based on points % and goal differential, and they can't fill the barn. Imagine if they were bottom 1/3 of the league for an extended period of time.

It wouldn't take long with an average attendance under 10,000 for there to be no option but to relocate them

I'm sure TNSE has played many scenarios out with varying levels of gate revenues. For whatever reason, they seem to be pushing hard right now to up attendance

 

[jungles]

NHL wants a team in Phoenix, a larger market, a growing city, etc. I would argue Winnipeg is growing pretty fast, but I digress. NHL believes even if Winnipeg loses their team, there will still be fans here who will watch hockey regardless. Whereas in Phoenix they still have the potential to turn people into potential fans.

And for the fans being suspicious and giving up supporting the team because of Winnipeg being a temporary location is just dumb. The team will probably move if Chipman can't find a buyer here in Winnipeg or gets an attractive offer from a billionaire.

Comparing them to us doesn't help our argument in keeping them.

Nobody is going to pay $700 million plus for a team in Winnipeg. If Chipman and co. want to make that on their investment, they will have to sell to someone that intends to move it.