Ticket/Attendance Discussion: The Sequel

jetsfan15

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Jul 17, 2016
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The Sens had only 5000 season tickets sold for the 2020-21 season. Not sure how 2021-22 fared but I believe they were up 35% from that in 2022-23. If they sales increased 35% in both years, they'd have about 9100 sold for 2022-23. The season ticket prices in Ottawa are roughly 25% lower than the equivalent seats in Winnipeg. And the Sens just sold for $950M USD (that's nearly $1.3B CAD).

Yeah. We’re not the first (and we won’t be the last) club to deal with these kinds of issues. That being said, I don’t think comparing the Winnipeg situation to other markets who have encountered attendance issues is apples to apples. I say this mainly due to the size of our market. The greater Ottawa metropolitan region is roughly 1.5 million people now. And the main issue there I think was the arena being ways out of town. I think with a new arena Ottawa will be good to go. Also, there is more incentive for a new owner to “try” to keep a team in its current market (wherever that may be) where the population is well over a million people (something Winnipeg doesn’t have) and with new arena plans being discussed, etc.
 

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Moose are also in the bottom 5. So its not just the price of Admission imo.

Are the Moose competition?

Similar product for a different demographic, but what happens if you remove this product? Could this lead to more ticket sales for the Jets.

Does a portion of the 152,000 (3863 x 40 games) ticket sales from the moose get transferred over to the jets?

I understand this is a issue stemming from business sales, but businesses buy Moose Tickets as well.
The thing that kills me about the attendance numbers is even if we sold out every game we would only move up 1 spot from where we currently are right now. :laugh:
 

jetsfan15

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From the NHL's Commissionaire's standpoint they're competition. Unless revenue gets shared between the AHL and the NHL.

Yeah I think in the eyes of the NHL they don’t care that TNSE makes money with the Moose or in other ways. They want the priority to be the Jets and they want the numbers for the Jets to be maximized. Having the building full every night for the Jets makes it fun, it’s like a cycle: building has empty seats and tickets are easy to get = less demand/interest; building full every night and the entire perspective is different, health of the club is great (even if there could be extra revenue coming from the moose)
 

Gm0ney

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Yeah. We’re not the first (and we won’t be the last) club to deal with these kinds of issues. That being said, I don’t think comparing the Winnipeg situation to other markets who have encountered attendance issues is apples to apples. I say this mainly due to the size of our market. The greater Ottawa metropolitan region is roughly 1.5 million people now. And the main issue there I think was the arena being ways out of town. I think with a new arena Ottawa will be good to go. Also, there is more incentive for a new owner to “try” to keep a team in its current market (wherever that may be) where the population is well over a million people (something Winnipeg doesn’t have) and with new arena plans being discussed, etc.
Oh yeah a downtown arena would help the Sens for sure.

And it's certainly not apples to apples. For example, the Sens didn't have a decade of sell outs prior to their season ticket nadir of 4000 fewer season tickets sold than the Jets currently have.
 

bustamente

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Arena is what it is in terms of size so might as well make the best of the situation and get out enjoy a game or two is you can. If you can't no big deal enjoy the game on tv for the time being. Nobody knows what the future will bring in terms of the Jets or the World for that matter.
 

jetsfan15

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Jul 17, 2016
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Oh yeah a downtown arena would help the Sens for sure.

And it's certainly not apples to apples. For example, the Sens didn't have a decade of sell outs prior to their season ticket nadir of 4000 fewer season tickets sold than the Jets currently have.

True. Despite Ottawa being a “bigger” market, I think Winnipeg is a “better” market for sports franchises, including the NHL. I think Ottawa has a lot of government offices (due to it being the National Capital) and of course those types of government headquarters can’t buy tickets - unlike businesses, which can. In a strange way, despite our significantly smaller population, I think we are a stronger market and better positioned to get corporate support for a sports team. But yeah, with a new downtown arena I think Ottawa will be a great market of course.
 

JetsFan815

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Todays opponents have played in front of crowds like this in the past and now they play in 5k university arena and they are not even the main tenant, I don't hear anything about them moving due to attendance. Coyotes have not made a thin dime since moving to Arizona and yet they are still there. Nobody really watches their games on tv or listens on the radio and yet they seem to be cemented in Arizona.

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I don't think we should be comparing the Jets to the Coyotes. It is not good for the Jets to sputter along in attendance, even if the attendance levels are viable to keep the team, they will have impact on other things like spending to the cap to ice a competitive roster. I am glad that Chipman and co are trying to address this quickly. A good playoff run with some outdoor whiteout parties and a renewed campaign to get corporate ticket sales would go a long way in rebuilding the STH base .

I am nervous about the tone Chipman/Bettman is going to take in his "fireside chat". They need to strike the right balance, coming across as threatening has the potential to turn people, esp coming from Gary's mouth.
 

Gm0ney

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True. Despite Ottawa being a “bigger” market, I think Winnipeg is a “better” market for sports franchises, including the NHL. I think Ottawa has a lot of government offices (due to it being the National Capital) and of course those types of government headquarters can’t buy tickets - unlike businesses, which can. In a strange way, despite our significantly smaller population, I think we are a stronger market and better positioned to get corporate support for a sports team. But yeah, with a new downtown arena I think Ottawa will be a great market of course.
Yeah Ottawa almost lost the Sens before Melnyk rode to the rescue and bought them out of bankruptcy back in the early 2000s.

Their arena location does suck though. It would be like if Canada Life Centre was located at the Highway 26 turnoff to St. Francois Xavier.
 

Buffdog

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Does anyone have any idea when they're going to air this fireside chat?

Yeah Ottawa almost lost the Sens before Melnyk rode to the rescue and bought them out of bankruptcy back in the early 2000s.

Their arena location does suck though. It would be like if Canada Life Centre was located at the Highway 26 turnoff to St. Francois Xavier.
I was in Kanata for one of my kids tournaments and we stayed right by the sens arena... I remember thinking that the equivalent here would be Portage la Prarie
 
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FlappyGiraffe

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Does anyone have any idea when they're going to air this fireside chat?


I was in Kanata for one of my kids tournaments and we stayed right by the sens arena... I remember thinking that the equivalent here would be Portage la Prarie
It's live before the game against the blues at the arena
 
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JetsFan815

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This is not in response to anyone in this thread but just people I've heard on Jets twitter and social media. Why do people complain about the location of MTS Center and praise the Bombers stadium location? There is nothing to do walking distance of the Bombers stadium unless you have a fascination with University libraries (in which case you are in luck). The Jets arena is located centrally and there shouldn't be any "downtown safety" issues on game nights when so many people are around.
 

FlappyGiraffe

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This is not in response to anyone in this thread but just people I've heard on Jets twitter and social media. Why do people complain about the location of MTS Center and praise the Bombers stadium location? There is nothing to do walking distance of the Bombers stadium unless you have a fascination with University libraries (in which case you are in luck). The Jets arena is located centrally and there shouldn't be any "downtown safety" issues on game nights when so many people are around.
I'm a big fan of the park n rides and the location is a lot more convenient for where I'm at.

I would never complain about the mts center location though it's probably the best place for it right now
 
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robertocarlos

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So what happens when they can't afford those extensions? Could you imagine our team this year without schief and helle?

The Jets are a top 3 team in the NHL right now based on points % and goal differential, and they can't fill the barn. Imagine if they were bottom 1/3 of the league for an extended period of time.

It wouldn't take long with an average attendance under 10,000 for there to be no option but to relocate them

I'm sure TNSE has played many scenarios out with varying levels of gate revenues. For whatever reason, they seem to be pushing hard right now to up attendance
If Chipman waits too long to move the team he could lose 10s of millions of dollars in lost equity. The City of Winnipeg had $50 million of equity in the Jets 1.0 and they rode that down to zero.
 

robertocarlos

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This is not in response to anyone in this thread but just people I've heard on Jets twitter and social media. Why do people complain about the location of MTS Center and praise the Bombers stadium location? There is nothing to do walking distance of the Bombers stadium unless you have a fascination with University libraries (in which case you are in luck). The Jets arena is located centrally and there shouldn't be any "downtown safety" issues on game nights when so many people are around.
People minding their own business at Donald and St. Mary have been hit over the head with a metal pipe at noon on a Friday.
 
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Aggie204

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I've had a couple of run ins with "locals" before/after jets games
The last game I went to, a friendly local asked me for some change. I didn’t have any to give. That friendly person instantly turned into a gutter gremlin and threatened to stab me and my bud. Being half cut, we laughed and turned our backs (a really stupid move on our part).
 

nobody imp0rtant

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Their arena location does suck though. It would be like if Canada Life Centre was located at the Highway 26 turnoff to St. Francois Xavier.

I was in Kanata for one of my kids tournaments and we stayed right by the sens arena... I remember thinking that the equivalent here would be Portage la Prarie

Gm0ney is fairly close. In terms of comparable distance from downtown, our arena would be around where the Headingley correctional institution is. That seems oddly appropriate. :laugh:
 
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Zippity

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I've never seen a number, but he and Chipman are the sole owners. Thompson has a minority stake, but I guess that could still be as much as 49% and as little as 1%, sorta thing.
Thomson's commercial real estate firm Osmington owned the land on which the team's home, the MTS Centre, replaced the space that previously housed an Eaton's department store.

Rather than accept money to build the arena in its place, a minority share in True North was accepted and efforts to bring major league hockey back to Winnipeg began.
Thomson bought Eaton place for 35 million and then Eatons a year or two later
 
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Zippity

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One decision in which it appears Thomson had a very direct hand was the choice to scale the arena at 15,000 seats – to some minds, too small to house a contemporary NHL franchise – again, he says, drawing on his time with HBC.

"Do you build it at eighteen and a half thousand or fifteen? For those who hadn't been in retail, you build eighteen and a half. For those who hadn't spent time with Steve Stavro [who made his fortune in the big box grocery business], you build eighteen and a half. But the important thing is the customer experience. Yes, we have a smaller rink and I still tell people it's too big in my opinion. More seats would have cost more money and you have to fill them. It's not the Bell Centre. It's not the ACC. But for Winnipeg, I think it's the right size."
 

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