Ticket/Attendance Discussion: The Sequel

[Walkingtalkingeye]

I like to tell people I got the worst seats in the building but I got one. So assuming it's everyone or maybe they just sent it to a random sample, I don't know.

 

[Aphid]

Too many decision makers tip toe around offending so called “vulnerable people”, allowing the downtown to resemble a cross between a ghetto and a crackhouse. Downtown needs to attract the paying customer. It’s time to cater to people with money to spend.

Downtown should be virtually spotless. Spend money on cleaning and repairs. No vagrancy, no sleeping in bus shelters, zero tolerance for pan handling. No more worry about offending people who are causing the issues.

Once people with money in their pockets return to the downtown, economic growth and the accompanying tax dollars will be more readily available for social issues. Simplistic, perhaps. But I would return to downtown at least.

This should be common knowledge but it won't change based off of who this province elects. We now have an awful premier and a terrible mayor. I don't see any way forward. As long as stuff like this keeps happening, people should be prepared to keep losing things they enjoy.

 

[Walkingtalkingeye]

Coincidentally I just gotta another email reminding me to rsvp. So tell him to look again.

 

[Channelcat]

At one point I was very optimistic about downtown. There was a real resurgence of downtown areas across Canada from 2000-2015 and I thought Winnipeg could ride that wave. And for a while it looked like we were. But the last decade has killed any positive momentum.

There have been 60+ years of attempts of revitalizing downtown with billions of public dollars spent (think about things like City Hall, the Centennial Concert Hall/Manitoba Museum, Portage Place, The Forks, the Human Rights Museum, Canada Life Centre, Hydro Building, housing subsidies, etc.) , and look what it got us. You could spend another $3 billion trying to improve things but it wouldn't make a difference, new buildings simply won't fix the social problems that are the real issue.

I don't mean to be too negative, I don't think downtown is so bad that people refuse to go to Jets games on account of that. It's just that downtown is so dysfunctional now it doesn't really have any drawing power. Downtown is something you simply have to endure to go to a home game. And that's unfortunate for the Jets and TNSE.

It's everywhere. Just as an example, Phoenix was a beautiful and relatively civilized city 40 years ago. It's a cesspool of addicts and degenerates now. Far more likely to get assaulted there than in Winnipeg. IMHO.

 

[JKG33]

I like to tell people I got the worst seats in the building but I got one. So assuming it's everyone or maybe they just sent it to a random sample, I don't know.

Coincidentally I just gotta another email reminding me to rsvp. So tell him to look again.

Thanks for the info, much appreciated

 

[JKG33]

It's everywhere. Just as an example, Phoenix was a beautiful and relatively civilized city 40 years ago. It's a cesspool of addicts and degenerates now. Far more likely to get assaulted there than in Winnipeg. IMHO.

Basically every city big or small has a ghetto degenerate area. But most cities aren't putting their big event attractions (arena, nightlife, concert halls, etc.) in the middle of the ghetto.

You can go to a game in most other cities and avoid the shit areas. The same can't be said for winnipeg.

 

[RestlessYoungZero]

Too many decision makers tip toe around offending so called “vulnerable people”, allowing the downtown to resemble a cross between a ghetto and a crackhouse. Downtown needs to attract the paying customer. It’s time to cater to people with money to spend.

Downtown should be virtually spotless. Spend money on cleaning and repairs. No vagrancy, no sleeping in bus shelters, zero tolerance for pan handling. No more worry about offending people who are causing the issues.

Once people with money in their pockets return to the downtown, economic growth and the accompanying tax dollars will be more readily available for social issues. Simplistic, perhaps. But I would return to downtown at least.

This is way too simplistic and doesn't offer any kind of solution. Where do these vulnerable people go? Are you suggesting that the police randomly arrest people and lock them up with no charges? Or shipping them off somewhere? Obviously something needs to be done, not advocating for the status quo. It is frustrating reading such callous comments though... and now I can expect to hear more BS comments that I'm a 'bleeding heart'.

 

[Section 325]

I've been in alot of arenas for hockey and concerts and the Canada life center is one of the best for sight and sound. Seats are a little cramped but i would rather have that and good sight and good sound than a big arena.

So true.

I try to buy tickets that closely match my old season tickets in Winnipeg when I go to see the Jets in other away arenas. In Winnipeg, you feel so close to the action and feel right on top of everything. Excellent viewpoints and a very intimate atmosphere. In most other arenas, the action feels so distant and the atmosphere is very lacking as a result. This was very evident in Dallas especially.

18,300 was the attendance but it often felt like you were there alone and there was a game being played somewhere in the distance. That place was so incredibly cavernous despite being comfortable and fairly modern.

Give me 15,000 seats over that experience any day...

 

[DannyGallivan]

This is way too simplistic and doesn't offer any kind of solution. Where do these vulnerable people go? Are you suggesting that the police randomly arrest people and lock them up with no charges? Or shipping them off somewhere? Obviously something needs to be done, not advocating for the status quo. It is frustrating reading such callous comments though... and now I can expect to hear more BS comments that I'm a 'bleeding heart'.

So let’s just chase away the money and amenities that attract money, right? How are things working now? I suppose we could just abandon the downtown and let it fester. That will certainly attract people and businesses.

 

[JKG33]

So true.

I try to buy tickets that closely match my old season tickets in Winnipeg when I go to see the Jets in other away arenas. In Winnipeg, you feel so close to the action and feel right on top of everything. Excellent viewpoints and a very intimate atmosphere. In most other arenas, the action feels so distant and the atmosphere is very lacking as a result. This was very evident in Dallas especially.

18,300 was the attendance but it often felt like you were there alone and there was a game being played somewhere in the distance. That place was so incredibly cavernous despite being comfortable and fairly modern.

Give me 15,000 seats over that experience any day...

See I'm the complete opposite. I love the spaciousness and feeling "alone" at the sacrifice of feeling a little further back. Especially come intermission where lines aren't as bad and you actually have room to breathe.

To each their own, but the size of this arena is why I associate it so much with the minor leagues, and the lack of space makes it feel way older than it actually is.

 

[RestlessYoungZero]

So let’s just chase away the money and amenities that attract money, right? How are things working now? I suppose we could just abandon the downtown and let it fester. That will certainly attract people and businesses.

I literally said that I agree something needs to be done.

 

[Section 325]

This is way too simplistic and doesn't offer any kind of solution. Where do these vulnerable people go? Are you suggesting that the police randomly arrest people and lock them up with no charges? Or shipping them off somewhere? Obviously something needs to be done, not advocating for the status quo. It is frustrating reading such callous comments though... and now I can expect to hear more BS comments that I'm a 'bleeding heart'.

I feel like nobody in governance knows what to do so they choose to ignore it and do nothing.

When I was in the Psych Health Centre in my teens (things are better now), I just remember there were a lot of people in there with deeply serious and permanent mental disorders that were bad enough it would prevent them from working and would severely limit their ability to live independently. That said, the mental health care system is very crisis based so there was a strictly observed limit to the amount of time they could stay at the Psych Health Centre.

It was known they had nowhere to go, it was known they had no way of supporting themselves, but it was also known that they couldn't stay there so they needed to go.

What type of life will that person have?

It's easy to say "get those people out of there" and it's easy to say "I worked for everything I have" but ask yourself if you would want to trade places with them. Terrible things have assuredly happened to them throughout their lives that brought them to where they are.

As a child, nobody dreams of becoming homeless...

 

[TheDeuce]

If anyone wants to do their part I have to add some more share partners to keep our season tickets. Great seats - Section 205 row 4 seats 3-6. Aisle seat right on the rail over the tunnel entering the lower bowl. I think next season's price is $160 per seat so an eleven game pack (one preseason game) goes for $3,520 for a pair. I have to get at least two more 11 game packs sold off to make it work.

Any takers?



m.

 

[Huffer]

This is way too simplistic and doesn't offer any kind of solution. Where do these vulnerable people go? Are you suggesting that the police randomly arrest people and lock them up with no charges? Or shipping them off somewhere? Obviously something needs to be done, not advocating for the status quo. It is frustrating reading such callous comments though... and now I can expect to hear more BS comments that I'm a 'bleeding heart'.

I hesitate to comment because A) I have no education or experience in this space (urban planning, politics, societal issues?), and B) because I really don't enjoy the negative conversations that can sometimes develop on here but I'll throw caution to the wind here and see if I don't regret it.

First, I don't think this is uniquely a Winnipeg problem. Winnipeg does have it's unique challenges, but I think a lot if not most cities are affected by these issues.

I don't think I have any answers, but I think there are many pieces to the puzzle that all need to be addressed and organized under the same program / plan to have any hope to succeed.

I think to have a chance you need to combine addictions, mental health, job skills, employment, and affordable housing under a single plan (that all??). There's probably a bunch of others, but for arguments sake let's say these 5. I think if you only address some and not all, it's too easy for people to fail. It's kind of an all of nothing thing IMO.

I have no doubt this is too simplistic and there are a million holes to punch in it. First of which is likely a cost question because it would appear to be a massive cost to tackle these things (some might say we already pay a massive cost to not address them I.E crime, health care, etc.). I think you would need public funding to decide to fully address addictions and mental health. Job skills, employment, and affordable housing would most likely be a public / private partnership of some kind.

So people with addictions and mental health issues get off the street and get the help they need. If they need permanent care, that's a separate thing, but if not, then a program that gets them job skills with some employment (employer subsidized?) after. And a program that assists with affordable housing for a period so people can get on their feet? And not horrible living situations, but even something like tiny homes that some cities and countries are trying?

Dumb scenario, but there are probably many people that have so many strikes against them it's near impossible to find a way forward. But if someone got their addictions and mental needs addressed, and then got some skills in something simple like painting, you would think companies could use some subsidized labour? Couldn't we use some of those skills for the public benefit? Painting over graffiti, fixing public spaces, etc.? And then over time once people develop skills, maybe they move to other opportunities? And while they are developing, there are tiny homes, or safe housing to live in.

Way too simplistic I know for sure. Huge money required (although I think people have calculated the cost to society NOT to address these issues and it's huge), and the employment angle is also super simplistic (where does that work come from? Don't have an answer).

The only thing I'm pretty sure on is, I don't think anything works unless it's all addressed together.

Thanks for attending my Ted talk. I'd like to re-iterate I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[Aphid]

This is way too simplistic and doesn't offer any kind of solution. Where do these vulnerable people go? Are you suggesting that the police randomly arrest people and lock them up with no charges?

If we lived in a normal society with rules and laws that were enforced they'd go to prison. Why do they get to do illegal activitities and create dangerous situations supercede me being able to feel safe and doing activities in the place I live? I'm not doing anything wrong. They are. All I want to do is be able to go downtown and watch a Jets game without having to watch my back in case I'll get harassed and/or mugged and/or shanked. I have a job. I pay my taxes. I don't steal or stab people. Am I doing something wrong here where I can't enjoy activities because of these people ruining it?

When stuff like this is brought up, you have the same people who feel that criminals have a right to ruin everyone else's fun and life because poor them. Perhaps the next step is Chipman and his marketing team comes up with a Drug Paraphernalia Night and release a new jersey celebrating it. Can try to tap in to that market.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I literally said that I agree something needs to be done.

You also literally put words in my mouth about rounding people up, etc. But my frustration is with those who feel that the people committing the crimes, vandalism and intimidation should be left alone to do whatever they want.

The only way to save downtown, like it or not, is to both make it a safe neighborhood for affluent people to live in and to make it a destination for others with disposable income to support the business. Like it or not, it can’t be a neighborhood for “everybody “, because those with money will choose to go elsewhere. That’s why I am so concerned with what is going to happen to the old Bay building.

All the best cities gave one thing in common - they have a solid population of well to do people who support both the business and the tax base. That creates more amenities that in turn attract more people with more money. Then, more social programs can be supported. But that won’t work in reverse.

 

[ps241]

PS I value your opinion, especially in the business side of things. Never saw a follow up post but would be interested to hear what you had to say.

I too actually read the article and came away thinking positively of Chipman. It seems he recognizes that the organization has not done enough for fans and that they may have had their heads in the sand so to speak.

I don't think the article was a hard threat as much as it was an unfortunate reality. We have a smaller margin for error in Winnipeg and the building needs to be full or damn close to it. I felt he was recognizing that the organization has played a part in it not being full and was not just blaming the fans.

Thank you for the kind compliment, not sure I deserve that. I am pretty weeded in the day job right now but I plan to circle back and take a crack at this when I can dig my head out of my ass.

 

[RestlessYoungZero]

If we lived in a normal society with rules and laws that were enforced they'd go to prison. Why do they get to do illegal activitities and create dangerous situations supercede me being able to feel safe and doing activities in the place I live? I'm not doing anything wrong. They are. All I want to do is be able to go downtown and watch a Jets game without having to watch my back in case I'll get harassed and/or mugged and/or shanked. I have a job. I pay my taxes. I don't steal or stab people. Am I doing something wrong here where I can't enjoy activities because of these people ruining it?

When stuff like this is brought up, you have the same people who feel that criminals have a right to ruin everyone else's fun and life because poor them. Perhaps the next step is Chipman and his marketing team comes up with a Drug Paraphernalia Night and release a new jersey celebrating it. Can try to tap in to that market.

The problem is unfortunately throwing people in jail doesn't solve or alleviate the issue. Maybe in the short-term but the conditions that lead people to reach that point need to be addressed. I appreciate Huffer's post that discusses the issue and recognizes everyone as an individual/person. I recognize its a very complex issue that is not just a Winnipeg issue. Having better social support systems in place, mental health treatment, training programs, etc. would go much further in the long-term to address poverty, homelessness, drug use and the crime that often accompanies it all.

 

[Gm0ney]

Basically every city big or small has a ghetto degenerate area. But most cities aren't putting their big event attractions (arena, nightlife, concert halls, etc.) in the middle of the ghetto.

You can go to a game in most other cities and avoid the shit areas. The same can't be said for winnipeg.

Portage and Donald isn't the ghetto. It's taken a turn for the worse - especially since the pandemic, but it's hardly the epicenter of violent crime in Winnipeg. It's a central downtown location. Lots of cities put their arenas in similar spots.

Here's a map of homicides 2003-2019. The arena is south of the worst of it.

 

[ps241]

I sat beside Chipman during a movie saturday afternoon at Grant Park. I so wanted to bring up the Chris Johnston article but i didnt have the balls. Also didnt want to be "that guy" lol.

What Movie did you two attend?

 

[JKG33]

Portage and Donald isn't the ghetto. It's taken a turn for the worse - especially since the pandemic, but it's hardly the epicenter of violent crime in Winnipeg. It's a central downtown location. Lots of cities put their arenas in similar spots.

Here's a map of homicides 2003-2019. The arena is south of the worst of it.

I mean the arena is pretty much in the middle in the sense that the worst areas are pretty much a couple blocks north and a couple blocks south from the arena.

I look at a recent trip I took to Nashville last summer as an example. We didn't realize our AirBNB was quite literally one street over from where the ghetto starts. But it was still a 10 minute cab ride to the strip of bars where the Preds' arena is.

The arena here is a lot closer to the bad areas than most. You'd have to go for a long drunken stumble in most cities to get from the arena to the ghetto. Here its still just a block or two away

 

[KingBogo]

I hesitate to comment because A) I have no education or experience in this space (urban planning, politics, societal issues?), and B) because I really don't enjoy the negative conversations that can sometimes develop on here but I'll throw caution to the wind here and see if I don't regret it.

First, I don't think this is uniquely a Winnipeg problem. Winnipeg does have it's unique challenges, but I think a lot if not most cities are affected by these issues.

I don't think I have any answers, but I think there are many pieces to the puzzle that all need to be addressed and organized under the same program / plan to have any hope to succeed.

I think to have a chance you need to combine addictions, mental health, job skills, employment, and affordable housing under a single plan (that all??). There's probably a bunch of others, but for arguments sake let's say these 5. I think if you only address some and not all, it's too easy for people to fail. It's kind of an all of nothing thing IMO.

I have no doubt this is too simplistic and there are a million holes to punch in it. First of which is likely a cost question because it would appear to be a massive cost to tackle these things (some might say we already pay a massive cost to not address them I.E crime, health care, etc.). I think you would need public funding to decide to fully address addictions and mental health. Job skills, employment, and affordable housing would most likely be a public / private partnership of some kind.

So people with addictions and mental health issues get off the street and get the help they need. If they need permanent care, that's a separate thing, but if not, then a program that gets them job skills with some employment (employer subsidized?) after. And a program that assists with affordable housing for a period so people can get on their feet? And not horrible living situations, but even something like tiny homes that some cities and countries are trying?

Dumb scenario, but there are probably many people that have so many strikes against them it's near impossible to find a way forward. But if someone got their addictions and mental needs addressed, and then got some skills in something simple like painting, you would think companies could use some subsidized labour? Couldn't we use some of those skills for the public benefit? Painting over graffiti, fixing public spaces, etc.? And then over time once people develop skills, maybe they move to other opportunities? And while they are developing, there are tiny homes, or safe housing to live in.

Way too simplistic I know for sure. Huge money required (although I think people have calculated the cost to society NOT to address these issues and it's huge), and the employment angle is also super simplistic (where does that work come from? Don't have an answer).

The only thing I'm pretty sure on is, I don't think anything works unless it's all addressed together.

Thanks for attending my Ted talk. I'd like to re-iterate I have no idea what I'm talking about.

This is a really good post. I'm retired now, but I spent over 30 years working in the addictions and mental health field, and you are right there are no easy answers, and as a society we are no where close to fully funding what it would take to "fix the system". IMO the biggest need is safe, adequate, affordable and supportive housing options. Instead as a society we look away and let a large segment of society fend for themselves on the street. We then only really care about them if they get in the way of our enjoyment of the finer things in life, like attending professional hockey games.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

People in this thread are too focused on Winnipeg issues. The fact is that the popularity of NHL hockey is on the decline across Canada. Winnipeg is the most vulnerable team because of the smaller pop, but you can see it happening elsewhere. There's still enough people and corporate $$$ in Vancouver to fill the arena, but there's no hype around the city for the top team in the NHL, certainly nothing like the 2011 era.

Anyway I think it's great because the league sucks and the product is trash. peace

 

[KingBogo]

People in this thread are too focused on Winnipeg issues. The fact is that the popularity of NHL hockey is on the decline across Canada. Winnipeg is the most vulnerable team because of the smaller pop, but you can see it happening elsewhere. There's still enough people and corporate $$$ in Vancouver to fill the arena, but there's no hype around the city for the top team in the NHL, certainly nothing like the 2011 era.

Anyway I think it's great because the league sucks and the product is trash. peace

Interesting perspective.

 

[Buffdog]

Too many decision makers tip toe around offending so called “vulnerable people”, allowing the downtown to resemble a cross between a ghetto and a crackhouse. Downtown needs to attract the paying customer. It’s time to cater to people with money to spend.

Downtown should be virtually spotless. Spend money on cleaning and repairs. No vagrancy, no sleeping in bus shelters, zero tolerance for pan handling. No more worry about offending people who are causing the issues.

Once people with money in their pockets return to the downtown, economic growth and the accompanying tax dollars will be more readily available for social issues. Simplistic, perhaps. But I would return to downtown at least.

Can't wait for July... my wife got me Bill Burr tickets for Christmas