Ticket/Attendance Discussion: The Sequel

[lotwwpg]

Nobody is going to pay $700 million plus for a team in Winnipeg. If Chipman and co. want to make that on their investment, they will have to sell to someone that intends to move it.

Someone would in Phoenix. We are not the same and shouldn't be compared.

 

[tbcwpg]

So what happens when they can't afford those extensions? Could you imagine our team this year without schief and helle?

The Jets are a top 3 team in the NHL right now based on points % and goal differential, and they can't fill the barn. Imagine if they were bottom 1/3 of the league for an extended period of time.

It wouldn't take long with an average attendance under 10,000 for there to be no option but to relocate them

I'm sure TNSE has played many scenarios out with varying levels of gate revenues. For whatever reason, they seem to be pushing hard right now to up attendance

Well funnily enough before the contracts were announced and the debate this past summer here was whether the team should rebuild or not, I took that exact position - attendance was waning and I felt people would not come out to support a rebuild. I think this season, with increasing attendance as the team has been good, validates my thoughts on that. I was told by some that people would come out to support a young team that works hard, but let's be realistic, they won't.

They're also focusing on corporate sales more than individuals I think, Friesen is doing Friesen things but this seems like a sales pitch to businesses more than anything.

 

[WolfHouse]

Future of the NHL is likely 50% of areas as corporate boxes and then loss leaders ticket sales for the public... I'd be surprised if TNSE doesn't renovate in the near future

Lots of hand wring these days - but the reality is that David Thompson could just call like 20 of his buddy's and be like hey I need some corporate suite sales in Winnipeg you think you could help a buddy out.... and all of the Jets attendance revenue issues are solved in like a weekend.

 

[bustamente]

They shunned the corporate business support from the beginning and now hat in hand are looking for them to come in a buy tickets maybe a suite. The economy is going to play a big part on whether businesses and joe fan fill that arena. Playing well will help a long playoff run will help but getting people to buy for next year and beyond is a heavy pull.

 

[tbcwpg]

Future of the NHL is likely 50% of areas as corporate boxes and then loss leaders ticket sales for the public... I'd be surprised if TNSE doesn't renovate in the near future

Lots of hand wring these days - but the reality is that David Thompson could just call like 20 of his buddy's and be like hey I need some corporate suite sales in Winnipeg you think you could help a buddy out.... and all of the Jets attendance revenue issues are solved in like a weekend.

I don't think it's suite sales but just business holders of regular seats

 

[WolfHouse]

I don't think it's suite sales but just business holders of regular seats

I mean TNSE does need more suites - but same thing, hey buy can you buy this block of seats and donate them to 'insert name here'

I don't really see another team that relies this heavily on regular season tickets/walk ups.

 

[bustamente]

Has it ever come out just exactly how much stake does Thompson have in the Jets, sure we say we have one of the richest co owners but what did he put into this club to bring them here. What real attachment does he have to this city if any does he care if this team is sold. How much debt is this team carrying.

 

[WolfHouse]

Has it ever come out just exactly how much stake does Thompson have in the Jets, sure we say we have one of the richest co owners but what did he put into this club to bring them here. What real attachment does he have to this city if any does he care if this team is sold. How much debt is this team carrying.

Im pretty sure its just through his investment fund

 

[lotwwpg]

Overall I believe this can be corrected. They just need to push the corporate sales side. I believe the average consumer is already doing their part and having better customer support will improve that. Today they have a game, which I'm going to, and the sales online show that they are slowly filling the arena above the average before Christmas break. Getting 2,000 corporate seats will improve this drastically.

 

[B33R LEAGUE]

NHL teams revenue 2023 | Statista

Which NHL team has the highest annual revenue? In 2023, two teams had a revenue of over 280 million U.S. dollars.

www.statista.com

 

[B33R LEAGUE]

Moose are also in the bottom 5. So its not just the price of Admission imo.

Are the Moose competition?

Similar product for a different demographic, but what happens if you remove this product? Could this lead to more ticket sales for the Jets.

Does a portion of the 152,000 (3863 x 40 games) ticket sales from the moose get transferred over to the jets?

I understand this is a issue stemming from business sales, but businesses buy Moose Tickets as well.

 

[abax44]

Has it ever come out just exactly how much stake does Thompson have in the Jets, sure we say we have one of the richest co owners but what did he put into this club to bring them here. What real attachment does he have to this city if any does he care if this team is sold. How much debt is this team carrying.

I've never seen a number, but he and Chipman are the sole owners. Thompson has a minority stake, but I guess that could still be as much as 49% and as little as 1%, sorta thing.

 

[Channelcat]

Nobody is going to pay $700 million plus for a team in Winnipeg. If Chipman and co. want to make that on their investment, they will have to sell to someone that intends to move it.

Who would pay 1B for the Senators?

 

[B33R LEAGUE]

Who would pay 1B for the Senators?

 

[jetsmooseice]

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Moose are also in the bottom 5. So its not just the price of Admission imo.

Are the Moose competition?

Similar product for a different demographic, but what happens if you remove this product? Could this lead to more ticket sales for the Jets.

Does a portion of the 152,000 (3863 x 40 games) ticket sales from the moose get transferred over to the jets?

I understand this is a issue stemming from business sales, but businesses buy Moose Tickets as well.

The Moose aren't competition for the simple reason that TNSE owns them, Moose revenue is TNSE revenue.

And it's interesting that you bring that up, because I noticed something about the Moose. Up until sometime around the pandemic, the suite level was open for Moose games. I remember being invited to suites to watch Moose games, which I did with my kids.

These days, you go to Moose games and the suite level is completely dark. They are not open at all, even for typically big-drawing games like New Years Eve and long weekend games. That's a lot of corporate support for TNSE in the form of Moose suites which has completely disappeared.

Speaking of the Moose though, that's another property where TNSE does a lacklustre job when it comes to marketing. The Winnipeg ICE used to give a substantial discount on season tickets for children. This was a big reason why I had season tickets for my family. I notice that the Calgary Wranglers AHL team has a similar offer. The Moose, on the other hand, don't do it. So I simply don't bother with Moose season tickets and mini-packs.

 

[Buffdog]

Good news it that the thread about this on the main boards has fallen off the 1st page. Hopefully this all dissapears quietly

 

[Channelcat]

Remember 2004 when the Penguins averaged 11k and were rumored to be on the move? Ironically, Chipman was one of the people trying to purchase them. How about the Blackhawks around 2007, Stars in the early 2010s, Tampa in the late 90s, etc etc. All those situations were more dire than where TNSE finds itself.

 

[abax44]

Was there anything official put out about the Gary Bettman visit? Or the "meet n greet" with the fans?

 

[Cypruss]

Not sure what was deleted or why, but the topic of how TNSE handled the pandemic is absolutely on topic. It's not a coincidence that their attendance is down by roughly the same percentage as the population at large that made the same decision I did. Seems like the easiest path forward to put our asses back in seats at CLC is to find a way to mend fences

This is a large tangible reason that is not allowed to be discussed or expanded upon with the how and why it has huge impact

 

[imec]

Yes, and while certainly the club and TNSE have a responsibility to give back to the community, etc., this is a club worth hundreds of millions of dollars that needs to spend over 80 million dollars per year on players to remain competitive. The club is competing against 31 other markets - all of which are larger markets than Winnipeg. I don’t understand when people say “Thompson is wealthy”, etc. The reality in this world is wealthy people don’t typically run multi-million dollar businesses at a loss. It’s not realistic in any market really, whether we like it or not. There aren’t many franchise owners who would keep a team in the 32nd largest market in the league operating in a building that is second last in total attendance (I think?) and, more importantly given the size of our arena, 3rd last in attendance percentage (I think?).

“Thompson is wealthy” There’s a reason for that…

 

[imec]

Future of the NHL is likely 50% of areas as corporate boxes and then loss leaders ticket sales for the public... I'd be surprised if TNSE doesn't renovate in the near future

Lots of hand wring these days - but the reality is that David Thompson could just call like 20 of his buddy's and be like hey I need some corporate suite sales in Winnipeg you think you could help a buddy out.... and all of the Jets attendance revenue issues are solved in like a weekend.

I’m not sure how much you know about David Thompson. I’m not at all sure David, his father, Ken nor his grandfather Roy were ones to have “buddies”.

 

[jetsfan15]

I mean TNSE does need more suites - but same thing, hey buy can you buy this block of seats and donate them to 'insert name here'

I don't really see another team that relies this heavily on regular season tickets/walk ups.

I think CanadaLife Centre has enough suites to be competitive and those as far as I know are all sold - I don’t think that’s the issue. Would be interesting to see how many suites we have vs. other NHL arenas though. The current focus/issue is about the empty “regular” (non-suites) seats in the arena and how businesses should buy those.

 

[jetsfan15]

They shunned the corporate business support from the beginning and now hat in hand are looking for them to come in a buy tickets maybe a suite. The economy is going to play a big part on whether businesses and joe fan fill that arena. Playing well will help a long playoff run will help but getting people to buy for next year and beyond is a heavy pull.

Yeah the mistake is how they launched the season ticket drive in 2011, which no one really would’ve thought as a mistake back then given the 10-year sellout streak that ensued, waiting list, etc. The current situation that the club finds itself in was unthinkable back then. That being said, I can also see a situation where had TNSE hypothetically kept half the seats for businesses to buy back in 2011, Winnipeg would’ve been in an uproar. I can just see the Friesen-like articles about how TNSE only cares about rich businesses, not keeping enough seats for regular average Joe Fan, etc. Not Fair, etc.

I think TNSE tried to make it fair by allowing anyone to buy tickets all at once back in 2011, but ultimately that ended up causing a problem a decade later…

 

[Gm0ney]

The Sens had only 5000 season tickets sold for the 2020-21 season. Not sure how 2021-22 fared but I believe they were up 35% from that in 2022-23. If they sales increased 35% in both years, they'd have about 9100 sold for 2022-23. The season ticket prices in Ottawa are roughly 25% lower than the equivalent seats in Winnipeg. And the Sens just sold for $950M USD (that's nearly $1.3B CAD).

 

[B33R LEAGUE]

The Moose aren't competition for the simple reason that TNSE owns them, Moose revenue is TNSE revenue.

And it's interesting that you bring that up, because I noticed something about the Moose. Up until sometime around the pandemic, the suite level was open for Moose games. I remember being invited to suites to watch Moose games, which I did with my kids.

These days, you go to Moose games and the suite level is completely dark. They are not open at all, even for typically big-drawing games like New Years Eve and long weekend games. That's a lot of corporate support for TNSE in the form of Moose suites which has completely disappeared.

Speaking of the Moose though, that's another property where TNSE does a lacklustre job when it comes to marketing. The Winnipeg ICE used to give a substantial discount on season tickets for children. This was a big reason why I had season tickets for my family. I notice that the Calgary Wranglers AHL team has a similar offer. The Moose, on the other hand, don't do it. So I simply don't bother with Moose season tickets and mini-packs.

From the NHL's Commissionaire's standpoint they're competition. Unless revenue gets shared between the AHL and the NHL.

I too have paid Wpg Ice Tickets and Moose tickets to stretch my dollar acrossmore nights out.

With the Ice gone, Ihave attended more Moose games this year.