Ticket/Attendance Discussion: The Sequel

[ps241]

Yeah, maybe we should be looking at things like this and questioning the logic behind a couple of frozen burgers on a factory made bun and a couple of fountain drinks for $55 after paying for the entrance fee in the ticket and not handwaving it away as "these are big league prices."

I know Canada Life Center's prices aren't quite as extreme as Rogers Place but breaking it down

Sysco's* prices for that 2 burger combo:
0.20/slice American cheese = $0.40
1.04 6oz 80/20 Fresh beef patty = $2.08 (Might be double 4oz patties (0.84/patty), hard to tell from the image)
0.94 Artisanal Ciabatta bun = $1.88 (Probably being generous using this and not the $0.40 hamburger roll)
0.08 Burger spread = $0.16 (10ml Heinz ketchup = 0.03, 10ml Hellmans Mayo = 0.05)
0.09 Lettuce = $0.18

Wholesale price of lettuce is $2/kg, McDonalds puts 28g of lettuce on a Big Mac according to google so using that as a price + amount gives 35 portions per $2 or 0.057/serving, assuming 30% waste would put it around $0.09/serving.

The chips are about $0.30/bag wholesale in 104*28g portions
Soda comes in 5 gallon bag-in-box systems to be portioned 1:5, syrup to water. I think the menu says 20oz so ~600ml or 100ml syrup/portion. Each box is around $90-100 CAD for an average plebeian to buy. It's about 19L per bag so 190 portions per $100 at plebeian non-wholesale price for Coke/Pepsi. So $0.19/portion for the soda and 1000 Solo brand wax coated, biodegradable cups is about $250 Canadian or about $0.25/cup.

$1.50 for the drinks + chips
$4.70 for the burgers
$6.30 total food cost, or nearly 90% gross revenue at $55 (Not profit to be clear)

*Prices are from an American Sysco list so I converted the price from USD to CAD. For the cheese I basically just doubled the price from 0.09 USD/slice because price controls/standards are higher for cheese in Canada.

You could probably get away with tacking on a $2 increase to every ticket and just cutting the margin on food to be more in line with what you'd pay around the arena, or even lower because being honest the arena's food is not great. The customer would probably be happier at the end of the game not getting gouged on food and you'd probably have more people actually eating.
More butts in seats with a higher percentage eating at games could bring in similar revenue

Fascinating breakdown -- thanks for taking the time. Some additional calcs (assuming these were Jets prices, which they ain't):

Net Profit Revenue Margin:
88.55%

Net Profit Team-assisting Revenue Bux:
$48.70

Profit Ineffectual D Buyout and/ or Free-agent Recruiting Percentage:
773.02%

This is like food stats - undisputable -
(nice work)

Solid work folks.

Some nuggets when it comes to what appears to be insane pricing.

In theatres they need great magins COGS (cost of goods sold) sub 15% because of the business model. Back in the day the larger film producers/studio’s (content providers) made a huge cut of the ticket sales (gate) especially in the first weeks. They use to take up to 90% of the tickets revenue early (first week) then work on a sliding scale where the theaters would get a higher percentage of the gate as time passes on individual films and eventually if flip flops. If a theatre can get a long run on a film they do really well but otherwise they are more in the concession business. Then there is rent (occupancy costs), utilities, labour, insurance, taxes, the list goes on. I don’t know the financial state of the business Anymore but my guess is its been a struggle through covid and it hasn’t rebounded yet.

With TNSE and the Jets it looks like a license to print money and its a good model but there is some hair on it. Centreplate catering runs the concessions so at a minimum they would take 60% of the revenue but they would have to cover the expenses out of their end. Expenses like Cost of Goods (COG), labour costs, and maybe rent, utilities. My guess is TNSE get 40% of the flow through of top line sales but don’t eat much if any of a cost associated to it. That is very nice but they also don’t have direct control of the guest experience when it comes to food and beverage service. Also they are giving up real profit opprotunity to a vendor Centreplate.

Full serivce restaurants usually try to run a 55 to 63 prime cost which is a blend of labour and COGS (Food, Liq, beer, wine, non alc etc), that leaves you with 37 to 45 cents left on the dollars to pay rent, Cam, Taxes, (8 cents of that dollar gone), credit card and bank charges 2.5 cents gone, small wares, utilities (can be over $100K annually for a full service Restuarant), cleaners, insurance, bank financing, taxes, 3rd party delivery, chemicals, professional fees like accounting. Its a business with narrow margins but if you do high volume or have a unique economic model (low build out cost vs solid annual sales levels) it can be lucrative but most independant operators (mom and pops) work their ass off and don’t make much money at it.

I am a bit suprised TNSE have not at least thought of bringing it in house but the food service and concession business is god forsaken as far as staffing goes. It’s close to the bottom of the barrel and that is saying allot.

If we want to get into the entire pricing stratagy as far as what might be optimal then that is an entirly different topic that is above my punching weight but my guess is their prices are too high to realize optimal profit currently.

 

[Buffdog]

The even crazier part about that menu from the Oilers is that the $55 burgers aren't even the highest margin product on that list

Popcorn is like $1/lb for kernels in 50lb sacks. You get about a gallon of popped popcorn per 4oz of mushroom kernels (the premium popcorn that's basically spherical after popping). So 4 gallons of popcorn per $1 of kernels, they're selling 130oz/1gal buckets in that combo that's 2 for $36.50.

Total cost in for 2*20oz drinks + 2*130oz popcorn is like $2 and half of that is probably the actual 130oz buckets at about ~$0.55 each.
~94% Profit margin on popcorn

Edit: I realize this is complicated because I used both volumetric and regular weighed ounces but I don't feel like changing it. So the 130oz is volumetric ie. fluid ounces and the 4oz is weight
In my defense it's because the popcorn buckets are sold in fluid ounces for volume.

OK, we probably won't hear much from @None for the next little while, Judge Wapner is on

 

[imec]

Rocky ll, Alien, The Jerk?

Midnight Express. Garrick Theatre. Car was towed in -35 weather.

 

[bustamente]

I don't know how they are counting in Arizona but claiming 100% capacity when they had sections of empty seats last night all over the building leads me to believe it's tickets sold.

 

[fmrdh]

I paid $22 usd each for 2 tickets in Glendale to see Jets Coyotes a few years ago.

Tickets were all you can eat in the upper deck. Free popcorn, nachos, hotdogs, chips and drinks all game long.

$55 for 2 burger combos is nuts

 

[Teppo Numenor]

Its the NHL and ticket and food prices are high. I recommend people eat and drink before the game if its too much. Its not a reason to complain, its the nhl, it is what it is.

TN has done a fantastic job and there is something about some people in winnipeg which resents the successes of others. The new arena and office towers they built, the return of the jets, the potential resurrection of portage place. No complaints, they are visionaries in a city which needs visionaries.

After being a moose ticket holder since they returned, i am part of a season ticket share for the first time, upper deck, cheap, next year we are getting more tickets.

GJG

 

[Jets 31]

OK, we probably won't hear much from @None for the next little while, Judge Wapner is on

View attachment 759198

Ya definitely, ya definitely.

 

[Channelcat]

I paid $22 usd each for 2 tickets in Glendale to see Jets Coyotes a few years ago.

Tickets were all you can eat in the upper deck. Free popcorn, nachos, hotdogs, chips and drinks all game long.

$55 for 2 burger combos is nuts

Winnipeg is relatively good value these days. EDM has a 650M$ building to pay for, Calgary fans will be paying even more once their building is up.

 

[ps241]

I liked the Chipman interview. I think he did a much better job of coming off as more understanding about the situation. One of the interesting comments he made that made allot of sense to me is that the way they handled the initial ticket allocation (That crazy lottery on a Saturday) led to a high level individuals owning seats in groups and not business ownership of seats. He didn’t really say that was bad as such but it did establish a pattern. The only thing I take a bit of exception to is when Mark says we have the lowest level of companies owning seats in the league that is not entirely accurate. Almost every business owner I know was a season ticket holder but they were part of a group.

He said they have good corporate support (I assume he means big business) but less business support. That isn’t entirely accurate if you take into account all the business owners that own season tickets at an individual level.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Its the NHL and ticket and food prices are high. I recommend people eat and drink before the game if its too much. Its not a reason to complain, its the nhl, it is what it is.

Let's face it, arena and stadium food is overpriced and usually not that great. Do people not eat before the game, either at home or at one of the many restaurants near the venue? Hell you could go to A&W across the street before entering the arena and get a better quality fast food burger than you can at the game for like half the cost.

 

[fmrdh]

I used to enjoy the pregame buffets, not sure if they still have those

 

[drumzan]

The new phone book is here !!!

Page 73 - Johnson, Navin R.! I'm somebody now! Millions of people look at this book every day! This is the kind of spontaneous publicity - your name in print - that makes people. I'm in print! Things are going to start happening to me now!

 

[Channelcat]

Let's face it, arena and stadium food is overpriced and usually not that great. Do people not eat before the game, either at home or at one of the many restaurants near the venue? Hell you could go to A&W across the street before entering the arena and get a better quality fast food burger than you can at the game for like half the cost.

How much is a teen burger now? Like 12$?

 

[Guardian17]

Mark Chipman was on CJOB this past Friday.

You can listen to the interview at this link.

Winnipeg Jets aren’t going anywhere, Chipman says, amid attendance woes - Winnipeg | Globalnews.ca

Mark Chipman says he's seen the buzz about the team's less-than-impressive attendance at recent home games, but wants fans to know Jets ownership are in it for the long haul.

globalnews.ca

 

[roccerfeller]

I liked the Chipman interview. I think he did a much better job of coming off as more understanding about the situation. One of the interesting comments he made that made allot of sense to me is that the way they handled the initial ticket allocation (That crazy lottery on a Saturday) led to a high level individuals owning seats in groups and not business ownership of seats. He didn’t really say that was bad as such but it did establish a pattern. The only thing I take a bit of exception to is when Mark says we have the lowest level of companies owning seats in the league that is not entirely accurate. Almost every business owner I know was a season ticket holder but they were part of a group.

He said they have good corporate support (I assume he means big business) but less business support. That isn’t entirely accurate if you take into account all the business owners that own season tickets at an individual level.

He must have some in depth data to support his view on that unless he’s not taking into account the groups/sharing

 

[Hunter368]

Not sure why people talk about concession food prices, they’re always high at pro games in arenas and stadiums and most often meh qualiTy, that’s to be expected haha.

 

[Hunter368]

I liked the Chipman interview. I think he did a much better job of coming off as more understanding about the situation. One of the interesting comments he made that made allot of sense to me is that the way they handled the initial ticket allocation (That crazy lottery on a Saturday) led to a high level individuals owning seats in groups and not business ownership of seats. He didn’t really say that was bad as such but it did establish a pattern. The only thing I take a bit of exception to is when Mark says we have the lowest level of companies owning seats in the league that is not entirely accurate. Almost every business owner I know was a season ticket holder but they were part of a group.

He said they have good corporate support (I assume he means big business) but less business support. That isn’t entirely accurate if you take into account all the business owners that own season tickets at an individual level.

I liked his comment also about how fast they sold out when we got the team, makes some sense. But the city needs to pivot and change that model now a bit

 

[None]

Let's face it, arena and stadium food is overpriced and usually not that great. Do people not eat before the game, either at home or at one of the many restaurants near the venue? Hell you could go to A&W across the street before entering the arena and get a better quality fast food burger than you can at the game for like half the cost.

My point for breaking down the wholesale cost of goods for those Oilers/Rogers Place menu items was to highlight that people are doing exactly what you're saying. Re-entry policies do nothing to stop people from eating before going to the game. The goal should be getting people to eat at the game to improve the experience and get people to spend more and leave happier.

Not sure why people talk about concession food prices, they’re always high at pro games in arenas and stadiums and most often meh qualiTy, that’s to be expected haha.

I think it's just really low hanging fruit to improve gameday experience

Here's prices for Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta (these prices are the same regardless of event)


Priciest item there is the chicken tenders at $6 USD

 

[JetsFan815]

I liked the Chipman interview. I think he did a much better job of coming off as more understanding about the situation. One of the interesting comments he made that made allot of sense to me is that the way they handled the initial ticket allocation (That crazy lottery on a Saturday) led to a high level individuals owning seats in groups and not business ownership of seats. He didn’t really say that was bad as such but it did establish a pattern. The only thing I take a bit of exception to is when Mark says we have the lowest level of companies owning seats in the league that is not entirely accurate. Almost every business owner I know was a season ticket holder but they were part of a group.

He said they have good corporate support (I assume he means big business) but less business support. That isn’t entirely accurate if you take into account all the business owners that own season tickets at an individual level.

Yes but business owners being STHs at an individual level are still subject to the more mercurial shifts that affect individuals (changing life circumstances, losing interest, having other hobbies take time). Other teams have businesses owning a chunk of tickets and distributing them as needed in their organization which is much less likely to have volatility.

 

[ps241]

He must have some in depth data to support his view on that unless he’s not taking into account the groups/sharing

Yes but business owners being STHs at an individual level are still subject to the more mercurial shifts that affect individuals (changing life circumstances, losing interest, having other hobbies take time). Other teams have businesses owning a chunk of tickets and distributing them as needed in their organization which is much less likely to have volatility.

The challenge he was accurately highlighting was the vast majority of businesses that would have been thrilled to have tickets didn't get a crack at them for the first 5-7 years initially at least but many of those business owners joined groups.

To the volatility aspect it really depends…..businesses have their ups and downs too. I do think that Mark and his team can keep working this angle though.

 

[castle]

So, back to attendance. Do you think that the return of Wheeler provides a boost to the Tuesday night attendance? Should be better than the Blues I should hope.

 

[FFHockey]

So, back to attendance. Do you think that the return of Wheeler provides a boost to the Tuesday night attendance? Should be better than the Blues I should hope.

Our Monday, I assume your Tuesday!

Nonetheless, think there may be a few more in the house for that reason, but the Rangers are an Original 6 team so should bring a few others out of the woodwork as well...

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Our Monday, I assume your Tuesday!

Nonetheless, think there may be a few more in the house for that reason, but the Rangers are an Original 6 team so should bring a few others out of the woodwork as well...

I think @macmaroon should add predicted attendance for the home games in the game prediction threads. Closest to the actual attendance without going over gets a bonus point.

I'll go with 11,599.

 

[FFHockey]

I think @macmaroon should add predicted attendance for the home games in the game prediction threads. Closest to the actual attendance without going over gets a bonus point.

I'll go with 11,599.

Lol....I'll bite. 13,589

 

[castle]

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