Proposal: Three Way Trade between ANA, WPG, and NYR

[Hunter368]

Ducks have trouble signing Lindholm (who is better than Trouba) and you think it could work we also worry about Trouba that we absolutely couldn't afford ever.... ok. I see you took your time on this.

I was asked a question (would I take Fowler under any condition), I answered from a jets POV. No clue if ducks do it or not or why, that's up to them to answer.

 

[Hunter368]

Fowler just isn't that good, and he has less than two years before UFA. He also needs to be protected in the expansion draft, which would force the Jets to give up extra value in the expansion draft. I'd rather trade for a good top six forward with term and a D prospect than go for Fowler.

Agreed. So little interest in Fowler, that's he's not even workable as a main piece in a return for Trouba.

 

[lindholmie]

fowler might not even be available with how he has been playing lately

 

[CaptainChef]

fowler might not even be available with how he has been playing lately

His 3-game sample this year must be really impressive. No problem, just add him to all the other d-men & prospects that are too good to trade from Ana. Good luck signing Lindholm too.

 

[Starat327]

His 3-game sample this year must be really impressive. No problem, just add him to all the other d-men & prospects that are too good to trade from Ana. Good luck signing Lindholm too.

Pot, meet kettle.

 

[lindholmie]

His 3-game sample this year must be really impressive. No problem, just add him to all the other d-men & prospects that are too good to trade from Ana. Good luck signing Lindholm too.

the ducks left handed D

lindholm
fowler
theodore
larsson

 

[xxxx]

my opinion is that Winnipeg should add for Anaheim, can't imagine the Ducks trading Fowler just for JT Miller.

Trouba to the NYR for JT Miller and Skjei is quite ok imo, but the Rangers would almost certainly want a pick in addition to that, so the Jets/Ducks would have to add the pick

 

[bernmeister]

Yes because anyone who disagrees with your "trade the vets, play only kids" philosophy is automatically "too much into win now".

So ridiculous. For a guy who preaches creativity and open mindedness, your position is sure close minded for anyone who suggests anything other than what you believe to be true.

to afford you the courtesy of a reply while not exasperating everyone else, I will just say, sometimes the shoe fits, and you have to recognize that.

Somethings are grey and open to interpretation, ie, a matter of opinion (eg, value of player A vs player B); in other cases, when the shoe fits, it is more objective

objective fact: NYR has barely enough cap to do anything
that should not defeat trying to get anything done, but we need to continue to make moves to address that, and moving higher paid vets for younger cheaper talent is the only way to do that, short of cutting people, which is usually not an option or has residual expense.

objective fact: the expansion draft is a reality, it cannot be avoided, we can only manage how we deal with it. this is the time to proactively set up for that

objective fact: we have excess NMCs including some concentrated at D; we also have legit concern that Stepan earns an NMC after this season, the only way to defeat that from ever materializing to any club is to trade him this season

So, you are entitled to your opinion but not your own set of facts, you can say what you want and hope to blur the discussion, but until underlying aspects of these facts are changed, they themselves remain.

Your snide attack on me, while evidencing your own failure to deal with reality, does not reflect well on you.

Hm, are you familiar with Larsson and Skjei?
Not saying that Winnipeg couldn't do better, I don't know, but I don't really think you can label a return of TWO very cost controlled top young Ds AND a 1st for Trouba as "horrible". Bernier has "potential" or whatever you want to call it. He doesn't suck and has never really been in a good environment.

NYR basically gives up the best player in the deal in Zucc. They give up Skjei who is a very good looking cost controlled young D. They give up McIlrath who is very underrated and just need to play, but sure, he doesn't have a ton of value, but many teams would be interested. And they give up a 1st round pick that probably will be closer to 16 than 30...

Look, I am not saying that this for sure would be he best return Winnipeg could get. The market is so tricky, look what Boston got for Dougie H on one hand and what NJ got for Larsson on the other hand. But I just don't agree that this is a horrible return for Winnipeg. It's a very good package in this day and age when nobody has cap room.

Ola, I award gold star for creativity/effort, and a gold plus for honest effort to deliver a balanced deal.

That said, I must vote no

broadly speaking Larsson is generically comparable to Skjei, excellent young D who are ELC exp exempt. why the swap? we want to try to add a Larsson, Theodore, etc.

The balance of it is challenged by too many on all sides to be salvagable, apparently.

the ducks left handed D

lindholm
fowler
theodore
larsson

if you rate fowler SO high, again, reasonable prices for theo/larsson will be entertained

 

[Hunter368]

my opinion is that Winnipeg should add for Anaheim, can't imagine the Ducks trading Fowler just for JT Miller.

Trouba to the NYR for JT Miller and Skjei is quite ok imo, but the Rangers would almost certainly want a pick in addition to that, so the Jets/Ducks would have to add the pick

You may not have read the entire thread, virtually all or vast majority most jets fans want absolutely nothing to do with a fowler/Trouba trade, we don't want fowler period......

 

[bernmeister]

my opinion is that Winnipeg should add for Anaheim, can't imagine the Ducks trading Fowler just for JT Miller.

Trouba to the NYR for JT Miller and Skjei is quite ok imo, but the Rangers would almost certainly want a pick in addition to that, so the Jets/Ducks would have to add the pick

bold would have been done long ago except Gorton apparently agrees w/me
the value is fine, but not the currency
that must be recognized

I would oblige Jets and move McD IF Jets add substantially

if we don't go there we need to see what other club w/an acceptable LD can be brought in to satisfy Winnipeg; however, that won't be cheap across the board. Just 2 off the top of my head: Klefbom, Hamilton. But Oilers, Flames respectively will not want to oblige without ample if not over -payment, and why should they?

I CAN NOT EMPHASIZE ENOUGH THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN QUANTITY OF PAYMENT MADE, AND THE CURRENCY USED FOR THAT PAYMENT.

It may be constructive if, whether here or in another thread, Wini generate a list of acceptable wants at LD

we can fine tune that list, and consider what matches may be do-able
for example, if as a core
Hamilton is acceptable to Jets
Zuc is acceptable to the Flames
and Trouba is acceptable to NY

that may be one scenario among several

 

[Shootertooter]

Hamilton is acceptable to Jets
Zuc is acceptable to the Flames
and Trouba is acceptable to NY

While this is interesting, why wouldn't the Rangers just hold onto Hamilton and why would the Jets take on a RHD? I thought they needed a LHD? Would Calgary even move Hamilton? Step to Calgary would offset cap better than Zucc.


I have to wonder where you think Stepan will be moved to. You aren't still in on the Pesce thing and the 30 other moves to make it happen are you?

What is the reality of any NHL team taking on his salary right now? And for what return?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Miller makes $2.75 million for 2 more years, That only sheds about $1.25 million from the difference of Fowler's salary. Doubt that would be enough to resign Lindholm unless both Thompson and Despres are on LTIR and Murray more then likely would probably still need to to try and shed Stoner as well. A cheap ELC like Spooner maybe Mantha is what Bob Murray would be seeking. Though Spooner becomes a RFA next year and will need a raise.

 

[bernmeister]

...

While this is interesting, why wouldn't the Rangers just hold onto Hamilton and why would the Jets take on a RHD? I thought they needed a LHD?

I stand corrected, not checking, taking you as sure.
Obv, thought Ham was LD

Would Calgary even move Hamilton?
Step to Calgary would offset cap better than Zucc.

Would prefer to move Step than Zuc, but have to give to get, and understand Flames want Ws. Also are uneven on D, I think I remember reading some Calgary fan lamenting, so Marc Staal getting closer to home is possible as a secondary piece, even if he is NMC. Of course, Flames need to feel fully satisfied. They want to upgrade but do not HAVE to make a move.

I have to wonder where you think Stepan will be moved to.

I am open minded.
w/a discount, Buf is the expected target in larger deal, mutually backscratching, more on that later.

You aren't still in on the Pesce thing

Pesce remains on my radar, esp if he is more reasonable than other asks while at the same time the better choice this exp draft year as he is elc protected.

However, if some grand bargain could be struck, mindful that Hanifin is second pair w/Slavin on 1st pair w/Faulk, my first target would be Hanifin, even if we are w/severe need at RD. Hani would give us a solid
Hanifin
Skjei
Graves
group, very solid left side

If we get Bogo as a cap dump in the above deal w/Buf, we do Bogo, Kovacs + Stromwall for expiring Shattenkirk

and the 30 other moves to make it happen are you?

gotta break multiple eggs to make an omelette
uber rare than 1 and only 1 deal nicely does everything.

What is the reality of any NHL team taking on his salary right now? And for what return?

I believe this was relative to Stepan
multiple teams at various levels of retaining required or not
and various returns based on same are short summaries in reply

 

[Constable]

Not by much, Doubt Trouba signs any where long term for less then $5.5 million per.

Trouba's issue isn't money, just playing time and NYR would give that to him.

 

[Maukkis]

I stand corrected, not checking, taking you as sure.
Obv, thought Ham was LD


Would prefer to move Step than Zuc, but have to give to get, and understand Flames want Ws. Also are uneven on D, I think I remember reading some Calgary fan lamenting, so Marc Staal getting closer to home is possible as a secondary piece, even if he is NMC. Of course, Flames need to feel fully satisfied. They want to upgrade but do not HAVE to make a move.


I am open minded.
w/a discount, Buf is the expected target in larger deal, mutually backscratching, more on that later.


Pesce remains on my radar, esp if he is more reasonable than other asks while at the same time the better choice this exp draft year as he is elc protected.

However, if some grand bargain could be struck, mindful that Hanifin is second pair w/Slavin on 1st pair w/Faulk, my first target would be Hanifin, even if we are w/severe need at RD. Hani would give us a solid
Hanifin
Skjei
Graves
group, very solid left side

If we get Bogo as a cap dump in the above deal w/Buf, we do Bogo, Kovacs + Stromwall for expiring Shattenkirk


gotta break multiple eggs to make an omelette
uber rare than 1 and only 1 deal nicely does everything.


I believe this was relative to Stepan
multiple teams at various levels of retaining required or not
and various returns based on same are short summaries in reply

Just going to do it for the Blues fans. You don't seem to know why Shattenkirk would ever be available.

(hint: Pietrangelo, Parayko, the lack of cap space)

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Trouba's issue isn't money, just playing time and NYR would give that to him.

It's more then just playing time with Trouba, He wants out of Winnipeg period. It might not be about money in Winnipeg but he still wants to get paid. Every rumor site that i've seen has suggested that Trouba wants 6 years @ $5.5 million per or the Seth Jones/Ristolainen deal.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Fowler just isn't that good, and he has less than two years before UFA. He also needs to be protected in the expansion draft, which would force the Jets to give up extra value in the expansion draft. I'd rather trade for a good top six forward with term and a D prospect than go for Fowler.

Fowler is a good young defenseman but people who look at advanced stats wouldn't know that Fowler is better then his advanced stats suggest people need to watch him more to get the full picture.

 

[Whileee]

Fowler is a good young defenseman but people who look at advanced stats wouldn't know that Fowler is better then his advanced stats suggest people need to watch him more to get the full picture.

I've watched Fowler plenty. In a vacuum he's a fine top 4 D. But the Jets are trading a young RHD who has long been considered to have top pairing capabilities. Fowler would be nothing more than a stopgap for the Jets due to his contract status and the fact that the Jets have a very promising young LHD in Morrissey who has earned a spot in the top 4. Chevy is going to try to make a trade that really sets up the Jets to be a real contender in the future when their stable of young talent matures. Fowler just doesn't move the needle on that front.

 

[TheTakedown]

Not sure what market value, vague comment.

Will Chevy get a similar lhd , Trouba? Not sure

Will Chevy change his return demands to BPA? Maybe

Will Chevy get very good value in return? Absolutely

The market meaning what players are/will be available this season. Sitting on trouba for an entire year would be stupid for all parties involved.

 

[TheTakedown]

I've stated before many times, fowler + could work......but Chevy doesn't need more picks. It would have to be a high end LHD prospect. If that happened we like would have to add a 3rd line forward prospect or young forward roster player on elc to balance it out. Example Dano or Armia or Lemieux, etc.

IMO fowler straight up would be epically bad for the jets. Fowler + (high end LHD prospect) for Trouba+ (3rd line prospect) might work.

No interest in picks, Chevy has already stated that

I think some ranger fans have kind of gone for that with the Fowler + Skjei deal...

To ANA: Miller
To NYR: Trouba, mid pick from WPG, cap dump from ANA
To WPG: Fowler, Skjei, late pick

 

[TheTakedown]

Fowler just isn't that good, and he has less than two years before UFA. He also needs to be protected in the expansion draft, which would force the Jets to give up extra value in the expansion draft. I'd rather trade for a good top six forward with term and a D prospect than go for Fowler.

Skjei on the other hand doesn't. He's probably the best available player at this point that does not require expansion draft protection

 

[liquiduck]

I think some ranger fans have kind of gone for that with the Fowler + Skjei deal...

To ANA: Miller
To NYR: Trouba, mid pick
To WPG: Fowler, Skjei, late pick

I wouldn't touch a Miller for Fowler deal. Fowler is playing great hockey right now.

 

[TheTakedown]

Miller makes $2.75 million for 2 more years, That only sheds about $1.25 million from the difference of Fowler's salary. Doubt that would be enough to resign Lindholm unless both Thompson and Despres are on LTIR and Murray more then likely would probably still need to to try and shed Stoner as well. A cheap ELC like Spooner maybe Mantha is what Bob Murray would be seeking. Though Spooner becomes a RFA next year and will need a raise.

Rangers could probably take stoner for this season, then use him as a 40/70 expansion candidate.

 

[TheTakedown]

I wouldn't touch a Miller for Fowler deal. Fowler is playing great hockey right now.

Sorry, you got me before I edited. What if the rangers took back stoner? Fowler is playing great hockey, but everyone knows Lindholm is the better defenseman. Gotta give to get (capspace, in this example)

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I think some ranger fans have kind of gone for that with the Fowler + Skjei deal...

To ANA: Miller
To NYR: Trouba, mid pick from WPG, cap dump from ANA
To WPG: Fowler, Skjei, late pick

Miller for Fowler doesn't work cap wise for Anaheim, Unless Gorton is willing to take on the Stoner contract as well. Fowler+Skjei and a late pick doubt that gets you Trouba Chevy can get far better then this.