Proposal: Three Way Trade between ANA, WPG, and NYR

[drw02]

Zero interest in this whole idea of Fowler for Trouba. Jets aren't taking 50 cents on the dollar return for Trouba. Just stop with this Fowler to the Jets nonsense

Just who exactly do you see as a comparable to Trouba? Fowler is about as close as you're gonna get among players reasonably available. Probably pretty even players right now tho with Trouba having more upside. Saying Fowler is 50 cents on the dollar is asinine.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Just who exactly do you see as a comparable to Trouba? Fowler is about as close as you're gonna get among players reasonably available. Probably pretty even players right now tho with Trouba having more upside. Saying Fowler is 50 cents on the dollar is asinine.

Judging by other trade threads they think trouba is comparable to lindholm.

 

[aufheben]

Just who exactly do you see as a comparable to Trouba? Fowler is about as close as you're gonna get among players reasonably available. Probably pretty even players right now tho with Trouba having more upside. Saying Fowler is 50 cents on the dollar is asinine.

It's unreasonable. No one directly comparable to Trouba is going to be available.

 

[oilerbear]

Fowler would be Winnipeg's top LD...by far. Skjei would push Enstrom for playing time.

since 75% of goasl come from HSCA.
you kind of want o defend that.

Since 279 of the top 300 goals corers are forwards.
and
Dmen have to abandon Defending the free path to there own net to go move down loeww to try and score a goal.

I do not want my Dmen chasing goals but passing the puck to the forwards.

Fowler is a guy who abandons defence for offence.
he is a bottom 30 HSCA d

When he was paired with lovejoy he had good defensive Numbers.

He is not what you want to get if you want to win.

you want top end HSCA D
who are also top end PKGA D

top 60 in both last year:
Alzner 1st comp
B. Campbell 2nd comp
Carlson 3rd
Davidson 2nd
DeHaan 1st
Dumoulin 2nd
Ekholm 2nd
Ellis 2nd
A. Greene 1st
Gunnarson 2nd
Klefbom 1st
Larsson 1st
lindholm 1st
Lovejoy 1st
Manson 1st
Martinez 2nd
muzzin 2nd
Parayko 3rd
B. Smith 2nd
Vatanen 3rd

do not consider Fowler.
Fowler without lovejoy is a defensive nightmare.

 

[go4hockey]

Not too excited about Skjei. I like Miller but he isn't what we need. Fowler is overrated. Him and Skjei doesn't do it for me. If that was the best we could get I would just as soon take Miller and Skjei from NYR and try to make another deal for a D. With the addition of Miller we really ought to have enough attractive forwards to get a deal done somewhere.

Fowler is a very good #2/3 defenseman who has been forced to play a number 1 spot for years. He is no where near overrated.

 

[bernmeister]

Are you talking about a whole different trade involving Carolina or is there a 2nd Hanifin brother that the Jets have that I missed somehow.

suggesting Miller is not worth moving unless it is with ample + for Canes Hanifin
Trouba is all that and a bag of chips, and i'm willing to trust we can juggle the cap dif on signing him.
However, we are screwed w/exp draft, need ELCs
Hani, higher potential aside is one,
Vats and Trouba are not

No reason to try to talk trades with Bern. He is all over the place and LOVE young first round picks that are hyped up

the meld-meister means well, but is too much into win now, and keeping vets

We need the D upgrade very badly and there's enough depth up front that he can be spared. Pretty straightforward.

That is the correct assessment
It is not a correct prescription, IMO, that Miller be surrendered to achieve this objective.
WE HAVE OTHER CURRENCY

 

[go4hockey]

Judging by other trade threads they think trouba is comparable to lindholm.

They are dreaming. I take Lindholm over Trouba every day.

 

[lindholmie]

All of these 3-way proposals where a third team tries to acquire Trouba by facilitating a move for Fowler are essentially a dime a dozen on this board. The logic doesn't fly, and it has already been proposed a myriad of times, FYI.

If Winnipeg wanted Fowler, they would have traded for him by now, as they have the required ammo to do so due a vast wealth of assets and they don't need to include a third team as such. They could then trade Trouba at their whim. It hasn't happened because they likely don't want him. The Jets are currently running 21 y/o rookie Josh Morrissey in their top pair at LD and he is the least of their concerns as his play has been outstanding. There is no need for the Jets to move for Fowler at the cost of Trouba.

Lmao if win wanted fowler he would be a jet right now? Fowler is playing 25+ mins and has 4 points in 5 games. He has been great. Maybe the ducks dont want to trade their 24 year old defender who is only signed for 4 mil?

 

[oilerbear]

Judging by other trade threads they think trouba is comparable to lindholm.

trouba is
top 80 HSCA D
#130 of 150 PK D

lindholm
top 10 HSC AD
#14 PK GA D
He is one of the 5 best Dmen in the game at setting the GA base forwards.

Loved the Hall for the best GA D in the game Larsson.

He and klefbom gave up 0 High scoring chances in 19: 25 TOI last night versus STL.
None!

We sure miss one of the 20 Best GA D last year
Davidson
top 30 HSC AD
top 15 PKGA D

lindholm one of the 5 best GA Def D is going to cost you a #1/2 forward.
the same value EDm paid for another top 5 GA Def D.

or

top 6 Fwd and top 4 Def D.

Trouba's def performance is a #3 D level at best
with the poor Pk more a #4 def D.

So what you adding.

 

[Ola]

It's concerning that Ranger fans don't seem all that bothered with giving up Miller. I think Anaheim could do better.

I think you can forget about Gorton giving up Miller for Fowler. Fowler is the most overrated D in the entire league, stats boosted by environment and he is horrible defensively. Miller is a future stud top 6 forward.

Do you feel any better?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

trouba is
top 80 HSCA D
#130 of 150 PK D

lindholm
top 10 HSC AD
#14 PK GA D
He is one of the 5 best Dmen in the game at setting the GA base forwards.

Loved the Hall for the best GA D in the game Larsson.

He and klefbom gave up 0 High scoring chances in 19: 25 TOI last night versus STL.
None!

We sure miss one of the 20 Best GA D last year
Davidson
top 30 HSC AD
top 15 PKGA D

lindholm one of the 5 best GA Def D is going to cost you a #1/2 forward.
the same value EDm paid for another top 5 GA Def D.

or

top 6 Fwd and top 4 Def D.

Trouba's def performance is a #3 D level at best
with the poor Pk more a #4 def D.

So what you adding.

I actually love your posts very insightful

 

[dracom]

I think you can forget about Gorton giving up Miller for Fowler. Fowler is the most overrated D in the entire league, stats boosted by environment and he is horrible defensively. Miller is a future stud top 6 forward.

Do you feel any better?

So how's judging players based on numbers going for ya? Maybe you should give watching an actual hockey game a try once in awhile. Heard that's pretty neat.

 

[Sojourn]

I can't believe I just read that his stats are boosted by his environment.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

the meld-meister means well, but is too much into win now, and keeping vets

Yes because anyone who disagrees with your "trade the vets, play only kids" philosophy is automatically "too much into win now".

So ridiculous. For a guy who preaches creativity and open mindedness, your position is sure close minded for anyone who suggests anything other than what you believe to be true.

 

[oilerbear]

Lmao if win wanted fowler he would be a jet right now? Fowler is playing 25+ mins and has 4 points in 5 games. He has been great. Maybe the ducks dont want to trade their 24 year old defender who is only signed for 4 mil?

you do realize the more directly involved a Dman is in Offence at even
the less like the team scores a goal.

Fowler against 1st/2nd comp this year with one of the best Def D in the game gives up a high HSC rate.
Mostly to his side!
that yield 4.85 EVGA/60
just brutally awful.

Manson with lindholm was the lowest (20.52) SA/60 and (1.43) EVGA/60 D pair in the game.



Coach had to pair him up with Vatanen a top 20 HSCA D facing 3rd comp to get even goal dif performance from him.

he had 21 EVG and 1 EVA in the game against NYI

had his lunch handed to him against Dal and Pit

was an even player facing 3rds.

but hey he got 2 PP points in 2 losses.

 

[Sojourn]

you do realize the more directly involved a Dman is in Offence at even
the less like the team scores a goal.

Fowler against 2nd comp this year with one of the best Def D in the game gives up a high HSC rate.
Mostly to his side!
that yield 4.85 EVGA/60

just brutally awful.

Coach had to pair him up with Vatanen a top 20 HSCA D facing 3rd comp to get even goal dif performance from him.

he had 21 EVG and 1 EVA in the game against NYI

had his lunch handed to him against Dal and Pit

was an even player facing 3rds.

but hey he got 2 PP points in 2 losses.

You sure have this misuse of statistics thing down.

I mean, I've seen some whopping examples, but this is definitely top 5.

Edit: Oh man, and the worst part is the conclusions you're trying to draw from it. You think Vatanen was put with Fowler to help him? I mean, wow. Vatanen was put with Fowler because the team needed scoring, and none of the other defensemen were even remotely contributing to that. Coach "had" to pair him with Vatanen indeed.

I'd really recommend you watch the games you're trying to make statements about, because you're putting your foot pretty firmly in your mouth here.

 

[oilerbear]

I actually love your posts very insightful

You will like this one.

I was at the Salmon arm during there hockey festival.
was talking to a young goalie trying out for the silverbacks.
pretty young so he would probably play on Development team.
then play withSalmon arm next year. and then off to College.

His father was involved with NCAA Hockey.
Stated many were aware of my HSCA theory.

what intrigues me:

is a large number of teams are not shooting for volume.
I am seeing lower shot counts from teams but marked larger HSCA shots by teams.

Edmonton had 23 shots last night
but 15 were HSC really close to the net. (a 22% sh% avg)
would expect 15 X .22 = 3.3G Allen gave up 3 in the hSCA
they had 8 LSC shots with 5.5 % shot average
would expect .44 G

so they league average was around 10.5 HSC shots/60 and the total s have reset around 13.5 to 14 per game.

A marked jump.

Which leads to a 25-30 % jump in GA.

Almost like a reset in Goal production if this continues.

 

[One Winged Angel]

I can't believe I just read that his stats are boosted by his environment.

Count me as one of the Ranger fans that believes Fowler is far better than some of the posters on here would say.

I don't think he's a legit #1 defenseman by any means, but a decent #2 and an EXCELLENT #3. Just my preference, but I'd have him as a #3 on a championship caliber team.

I'd be for flipping Miller for him and then flipping him for Trouba, since there's just about no way in hell that anyone will take Marc Staal's contract, despite his good finish to last season and start to this season, leaving there no space on the left side.

Rangers desperately need a right side defender in the top-4 that's a little better than Klein, preferrably a good #2 that can play with McDonagh. Trouba could be that.

 

[aufheben]

You sure have this misuse of statistics thing down.

Idk even know what that is.

 

[TheTakedown]

Not to be that guy, but the Jets are currently running with two largely inexperienced goalies whose play has been pedestrian thus far, and unless Folwer is willing to strap on the goal pads and can beat them out, he still isn't needed here. Their play may yet improve, and all the Jets truly need right now is a couple more saves per game from their goalies.

K, then who do you want? Because ghost or Klefbom is certainly not going your way without a massive overpayment.

 

[TheTakedown]

Zero interest in this whole idea of Fowler for Trouba. Jets aren't taking 50 cents on the dollar return for Trouba. Just stop with this Fowler to the Jets nonsense

Here's the thing, the jets are never going to get "market value" Id they are limiting themselves to Left Handed defensemen... Are all WPG fans trying to tell me there is Nothing else on that team that could stand to be upgraded?

 

[Sojourn]

Idk even know what that is.

In this case, it's trying to use statistics to make an in-depth analysis based on a huge amount of assumptions.

Translation: Making **** up.

He just tried to put together an entire story of the games based on some numbers, and despite not seeing the games in question.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

With the way Fowler is playing, I'd almost deal Miller and 2nd for him straight up, then turn Skjei around for another forward or a 1st. I'm beginning to think we'll never get a decent RD at this point, so screw it. Let's load up at LD! lol

 

[Ducks in a row]

since 75% of goasl come from HSCA.
you kind of want o defend that.

Since 279 of the top 300 goals corers are forwards.
and
Dmen have to abandon Defending the free path to there own net to go move down loeww to try and score a goal.

I do not want my Dmen chasing goals but passing the puck to the forwards.

Fowler is a guy who abandons defence for offence.
he is a bottom 30 HSCA d

When he was paired with lovejoy he had good defensive Numbers.

He is not what you want to get if you want to win.

you want top end HSCA D
who are also top end PKGA D

top 60 in both last year:
Alzner 1st comp
B. Campbell 2nd comp
Carlson 3rd
Davidson 2nd
DeHaan 1st
Dumoulin 2nd
Ekholm 2nd
Ellis 2nd
A. Greene 1st
Gunnarson 2nd
Klefbom 1st
Larsson 1st
lindholm 1st
Lovejoy 1st
Manson 1st
Martinez 2nd
muzzin 2nd
Parayko 3rd
B. Smith 2nd
Vatanen 3rd

do not consider Fowler.
Fowler without lovejoy is a defensive nightmare.

No he is not

 

[Ola]

I like simple trades, but I couldn't make it work, this is my best shot! Any comment is appreciated!

To Winnipeg (gives up Trouba and Hutchinson):
Jonathan Bernier
Brady Skjei
Jacob Larsson
NYRs 1st in 17'

Comment: Bernier has talent, it he worth a shot for Anaheim? Can't be worse than what they have got this season. Skjei and Larsson are two very good looking young LDs. Larsson can go to the AHL/SHL this season, Skjei can play right now. Another piece in NYR's 1st in 2017. This is a very good return in today's NHL when nobody have Cap space. A lot of cost controlled assets, decent deal IMO for Trouba.

To Anaheim (gives up Fowler, Jonathan Bernier and Jacob Larsson):
Mats Zuccarello
Dylan McIlrath
Michael Hutchinson
Comment: Anaheim clears cap space, get NYRs best forward the last years, and a young cheap physical RD in McIlrath.

To NYR (Gives up Zuccarello, McIlrath, Skjei and 1st in 17'):
Jacob Trouba
Cam Fowler
Comment: NYR needs to get Ds that can move the puck. They give up a helluva lot, but OTOH Fowler and Trouba are not old. Biggest downside is that Fowler is a UFA after next season...

Anaheim's Cap Impact:
In: 4.5m + 1.15m + 800k = 6.4m
Out: 4.15m + 4m + 925k = 9.75m
Net: 3.35m out

Winnipeg's Cap Impact:
In: 4.15m + 925k + 925k = 6m
Out: Trouba + 1.15m
Net: 4.85 - Trouba (Bernier is only signed for another year) in

NYR's Cap Impact:
In: 4m + Trouba (app. 5.5m) = 9.5m
Out: 4.5m + 800k = 5.3m
Net = 4.2m in

In other words, this deal can be done, but NYR maybe have to wait a few weeks to accrue more cap space.