This Pittsburgh Penguins Act is Getting Old

[canuckslover10]

Trade Karlsson and rebuild honestly if I were them I'd trade em all except Crosby, Malkin, and Letang unless they want to be traded cause they do not want to end their career on a rebuild.

 

[Fatass]

Trade Karlsson and rebuild honestly if I were them I'd trade em all except Crosby, Malkin, and Letang unless they want to be traded cause they do not want to end their career on a rebuild.

Dubas has done a bad job. The Pens are old and slow and clearly need to rebuild. Those old slow guys Karlsson for example) not only have no move clauses but their contracts aren’t tradable unless adding a lot of high picks. Sadly the Pens are stuck with what they have until those bad contracts run out.

 

[canuckslover10]

Dubas has done a bad job. The Pens are old and slow and clearly need to rebuild. Those old slow guys Karlsson for example) not only have no move clauses but their contracts aren’t tradable unless adding a lot of high picks. Sadly the Pens are stuck with what they have until those bad contracts run out.

Karlsson is definitely tradable as he would still have value across the league they would probably have to retain 2-3 million tho.

 

[BallardEra]

Clock is ticking on Sullivan...

 

[TooManyHumans]

As bad as they’ve been on pace is not something to bring up this early in the season. Kucherov is also on pace for 82 goals while Stamkos is on pace for like 15.

If they keep Sullivan all year, I see no reason to think it will improve.

 

[molon labe]

Trade Karlsson and rebuild honestly if I were them I'd trade em all except Crosby, Malkin, and Letang unless they want to be traded cause they do not want to end their career on a rebuild.

Rather trade Letang than Karlsson. Either sell everyone - or get your head out of the sand, fire Sully, trade Jarry - and do whatever you have to to bring in a top 4 LD and a top 6 F.

Won't be enough to genuinely compete, but it'll be enough to push for the wild card.

Clearly next year has been his plan - just annoying to throw away every single season since 2021 by keeping a stale coach around who's somehow also in charge of all roster/GMing decisions. This roster is 80/20 Sullivan/Dubas.

 

[BallardEra]

 

[Midnight Judges]

Karlsson is definitely tradable as he would still have value across the league they would probably have to retain 2-3 million tho.

Karlsson’s value is jack squat.

 

[Stickpucker]

Bad GM - check
Coach with roster that doesn't fit his style trying to fit a square peg in a round hole - check
Terrible defense - check
Slow team speed - check
Old men - check

Bright spots? Malkin has played well.

 

[Fatass]

Karlsson is definitely tradable as he would still have value across the league they would probably have to retain 2-3 million tho.

EK is looking really bad. He’s playing very soft. Hes got four more years at 11 million per. Even at 50% retention it’s a stretch to think any club will want him with how he’s playing. He’s coming 35!

 

[BallardEra]

The Dubas Invitational golf tournament is in full swing this weekend:

 

[nturn06]

Spoken like someone who hasn't watched a Penguins game in years.

The defense this year is identical to the defense from last year, just with Joseph and Ruhwedel swapped out for Grzelcyk and St. Ivany. The defensemen on this team aren't good, but the team is horrendous defensively because of the system Sullivan is running, not because of the defense.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1850129722597937400

The team simply doesn't have the personnel to run the system Sullivan has been forcing this team to run for the past few years. Good coaches make systems that work with the players that they have, they don't just run the same system and then pout because it's not working due to the players not being good fits for it.

The fact that the team doesn't have the right players sounds more like a GM problem than a coach issue, especially since the coach had success with this system in the past.

When the team bleeds goals, adding a 11,5 milion dollars offensive d-man is not the solution, it is just adding to problem. And that is not on Sulivan. Not to mention that the Pens already had Letang, EK is redundant.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The fact that the team doesn't have the right players sounds more like a GM problem than a coach issue, especially since the coach had success with this system in the past.

When the team bleeds goals, adding a 11,5 milion dollars offensive d-man is not the solution, it is just adding to problem. And that is not on Sulivan. Not to mention that the Pens already had Letang, EK is redundant.

The team doesn’t have the right players because Jim Rutherford went insane and mortgaged the Penguins future to try to win in the 2018-2021 window. Kyle Dubas needs a time machine to undo the mistakes JR made to make Sullivan’s system work.

The system doesn’t work because:

1. The core is in their late 30s
2. They have no young players coming up
3. Any UFA additions Dubas has made (which have been bad on the overall) don’t make up for points 1 and 2

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

pretty crazy when a teams 'young' dynamic goal scorer is a 31 year old rickard rakell lol.

 

[wetcoast]

pretty crazy when a teams 'young' dynamic goal scorer is a 31 year old rickard rakell lol.

The ONLY position player under the age of 25 was McGroarty........

 

[olli]

If they keep Sullivan all year, I see no reason to think it will improve.

You have a good point but my point is just talking about how they’ve played would be a better argument then what their on pace for given how early in the year it is.

 

[BallardEra]

You have a good point but my point is just talking about how they’ve played would be a better argument then what their on pace for given how early in the year it is.

Pens have allowed the most shots per game and the third worst GAA in the league so far.

Forget about pace. I don’t see how they even change that trend under Sullivan.

 

[Duffy13]

Guys C'mon!!!

We don't want it to change, we want the picks, the trades for futures, for prospects etc etc

The tank is on!!!!

We do however want it to at least be entertaining..... And it's not quite that yet.

Bring in Bruce and tell him to just get them to score... 7-6 losses all year!!!! Do it up!!!

 

[TooManyHumans]

You have a good point but my point is just talking about how they’ve played would be a better argument then what their on pace for given how early in the year it is.

They've played like their record or maybe even worse.

 

[olli]

Pens have allowed the most shots per game and the third worst GAA in the league so far.

Forget about pace. I don’t see how they even change that trend under Sullivan.

Yeah that’s a good reason why

They've played like their record or maybe even worse.

Yeah that’s a good reason

 

[centipede2233]

The team doesn’t have the right players because Jim Rutherford went insane and mortgaged the Penguins future to try to win in the 2018-2021 window. Kyle Dubas needs a time machine to undo the mistakes JR made to make Sullivan’s system work.

The system doesn’t work because:

1. The core is in their late 30s
2. They have no young players coming up
3. Any UFA additions Dubas has made (which have been bad on the overall) don’t make up for points 1 and 2

Coincidentally, treliving needs the same time maxhine to go back to 2018 and undo all the horrible trades and contracts dubie dubes did, touché

 

[Empoleon8771]

Coincidentally, treliving needs the same time maxhine to go back to 2018 and undo all the horrible trades and contracts dubie dubes did, touché

I would be significantly willing to bet that JR is more responsible for the Penguins current situation than Dubas is for the Leafs current situation.

And that's not really a reflection of how either GM did, it's more that an old team not having any futures and young players is way more damaging than a prime aged team making bad moves that didn't pan out. It's not like Dubas pissed away futures assets like JR did, the Leafs have had a consistent stream of top young players. The bad moves Dubas made were either bad player for player deals (like the Kadri deal) or the Leafs actually gaining assets (like acquiring Murray and a 3rd to be their starter). Even though he was making mistakes, he wasn't mortgaging the future with those mistakes. That wasn't true with JR, JR was making bad moves while also completely throwing away the future.

The Leafs actually have assets now to make the team better because Dubas at least drafted well and didn't trade a billion picks. The Penguins don't have that luxury because of how many picks JR traded.

 

[Puikiou]

The Dubas Invitational golf tournament is in full swing this weekend:

View attachment 922388

Eller, Graves, Rakell and Beauvillier need to be traded. They don't fit with the team.

 

[hamzarocks]

I would be significantly willing to bet that JR is more responsible for the Penguins current situation than Dubas is for the Leafs current situation.

And that's not really a reflection of how either GM did, it's more that an old team not having any futures and young players is way more damaging than a prime aged team making bad moves that didn't pan out. It's not like Dubas pissed away futures assets like JR did, the Leafs have had a consistent stream of top young players. The bad moves Dubas made were either bad player for player deals (like the Kadri deal) or the Leafs actually gaining assets (like acquiring Murray and a 3rd to be their starter). Even though he was making mistakes, he wasn't mortgaging the future with those mistakes. That wasn't true with JR, JR was making bad moves while also completely throwing away the future.

The Leafs actually have assets now to make the team better because Dubas at least drafted well and didn't trade a billion picks. The Penguins don't have that luxury because of how many picks JR traded.

I dont think you followed the leafs at all under dubas reign

He traded picks for UFAs constantly

2020

Marleau dumped with top 10 protected 1st and 6th for a 7th. We dumped 1 year of PM to keep Kapanen and Johnsson who he extended and dealt 12 months later

2021:

Rental Foligno@25% for 7 reg season games and few playoff games for 2021 1st, 2021 4th and 2022 4th

Rental David Ritich for a 2022 3rd

Rental Ben Hutton for a 2022 5th

2022:

Nick Ritchie (his signing in summer) dumped with a 2025 2nd for Ilya Lubushkin (rental)

Mark Giordano for a 2022 2nd, 2023 2nd, and 2024 3rd. Extends Gio which is only saving grace for the deal but way too much for a #5D-7D (what Gio was by 2023-2024 his final year with leafs)

Petr Mrazek (his signed contract for 3 years high 3sM AAV) and a 1st for a 2nd (Minten). Bad signing who he had to dump within a year.

2023:

ROR@25% & Noel Acciari for a 2023 1st, 2023 3rd, 2024 2nd, 2025 4th and a few AHL guys (Gaudette and another prospect)

Jake McCabe@50% + Sam Lafferty for 2025 top 10 protected 1st and 2026 2nd. McCabe having term made this a solid deal but high picks involved

Luke Schenn for a 2023 3rd as a rental who walked after

Hextall may have been worse than Dubas. Dubas was horrible though with asset management, long-term team building and contract negotiations as well. He kept bleeding picks to try and fix his early mistakes or get 1 year rentals and try to win.

He didnt draft that well either.

Minten is a long-shot NHLer
Robertson hasnt progressed and isnt worth a 2nd now
Hirvonen, Niemela arent progressing very well

His most promising picks are Knies(very promising) and Grebenkyin who is still developing in the AHL after 2 years in the KHL.

Leafs would have been much better positoned had we gotten an experienced GM who wasnt an aging relic like Lou after 2018. We went to extreme fro 1 direction to another and it cost us badly

 

[Empoleon8771]

I dont think you followed the leafs at all under dubas reign

If you have to bring up a rental deal where Dubas traded a 5th for Ben Hutton as him "mortgaging the future", you're flat out not arguing in good faith.

In Dubas' 5 drafts with the Leafs, the Leafs had 2 1sts, 5 2nds, 5 3rd and 5 4ths. That is an entirely reasonable amount of high end picks for a contending team making win-now moves to have. In the same window for the Penguins, the Penguins had 2 1sts, 4 2nds (2 of which were later traded as prospects), 2 3rds (both of which have been traded as prospects)) and 2 4ths (one of which has been traded as a prospect). I don't know how many of those guys are left with the Leafs, but I'm pretty damn confident it's more than what the Penguins have left.

JR made these trades in about a 3 year stretch:

-1st and Hallander (2018 2nd) for Kapanen (remember when Dubas completely embarrassed JR in this deal?)
-1st and Addison (2018 2nd) for Zucker
-1st and Gustavsson (2016 2nd) for Brassard
-2nd for McCann and Bjugstad (honestly the only deal here that wasn't awful for the Penguins)

These deals are why the Penguins have no young players today. I can't see any way that Dubas hurt the Leafs even close to a level that JR's last few years hurt the Penguins, especially with how desperately they need young players today.