This Pittsburgh Penguins Act is Getting Old

[The Great Mighty Poo]

You’d figure a loss to Chicago tomorrow night and that’s it for Sullivan?

Getting ass blasted in a win or miss the playoffs to the dogshit Hawks last season didnt get him fired, So no I dont, going an entire month without scoring a power play goal while going 0/697856, Sully and Baldheaded f***o Reirden 5everz.

 

[Breakers]

So what’s the problem?
Obviously not winning by their record

But they generate very well 5v5, I mean top 5 dangerous scoring chances
They don’t give up a ton of dangerous scoring chances against
Decent differentials everywhere else

Is this just team that finds ways to lose I guess?

PK is very decent
PP I will admit is god awful

 

[Divine]

I think Dubas is fighting himself here. They should have blew it up last off-season.

Instead he goes and trades Pittsburgh's 1st rounder this year for Karlsson. Now they realize it was a mistake and are contemplating trading Guentzel? Their aging core just got older with 4 years of Karlsson.

Dubas shot himself in the foot by saying that this team can still compete and I don't know if he wants to admit the first move he made in Pittsburgh was the wrong one. I imagine it'll be a retool and try again next season.

 

[Chips]

No idea why they brought in Dubas. His only move that he knows to improve a team is to trade the first round pick.

That’s typical contender stuff and they ostensibly brought him to tweak the roster for the last few Crosby years.


That said, no that’s not the only thing he does well. He remodeled the Leafs front office internally inviting more input, and did a good job both identifying some of his teams AHL people that deserved a chance, and he was definitely one of the best GMs successfully navigating the covid crunch: He found some of the better bargain bin forwards, some of whom chipped in as many or more goals as his disappearing stars in multiple series back halves while generally being good defensive forwards.


The leafs were top 10 finishing team multiple times. Dude gets more blame for his stars disappearing late in series than the stars themselves or the guy coaching them lol.


Anyways, nobody in their right mind expected to fix the Pens in one summer after years of mismanagement. His job is to at least try as long as Crosby wants to, and he did a really good job trading a bunch of bleh to get retained Karlsson.


The biggest thing with the team is a coaching change but that’s the one thing I feel like Dubas doesn’t have permission for.


That’s the long way of getting at: Dubas is a fine GM, and he was brought in for deeper organizational change ahead of the inevitable rebuild. There’s no reason to not mortgage the future now because there’s no way this team doesn’t have a long rebuild ahead and *more than likely any players drafted with near future draft picks won’t be on the Pens when it competes again anyway.


I get if they keep him to keep Crosby happen, but retaining on Karlsson could be an epic rebuild move. They could get more than the Sharks could given his contract has already been chopped and he’s been good.

 

[Chips]

I think Dubas is fighting himself here. They should have blew it up last off-season.

Instead he goes and trades Pittsburgh's 1st rounder this year for Karlsson. Now they realize it was a mistake and are contemplating trading Guentzel? Their aging core just got older with 4 years of Karlsson.

Dubas shot himself in the foot by saying that this team can still compete and I don't know if he wants to admit the first move he made in Pittsburgh was the wrong one. I imagine it'll be a retool and try again next season.

Dubas absolutely mortgaged the future, but people’s mistake is acting like any other GM wouldn’t have.


The ownership wants to sell tickets, and the whole org wants to show Crosby and his trio loyalty. Dubas more than likely was brought in to change things from the old boys management that f***ed the team and possibly be in for the long haul rebuild. Guy has a young family and a long future ahead of him so I can see why he’d like that assignment.


That first round pick was near worthless for a rebuild anyway. Like the Wings, and likely the Caps and Bolts and Hawks, the Pens are in for a long hard rebuild no matter what.


As often happens with long rebuilds starting with minimal prospect pool, the first few first round picks from the tail end of the old core likely aren’t going to be around when the team competes again.


Until you draft your gems, any mid guys picked before will quite likely age up and need to be moved by the time you get a real new core built.


And regardless: people overvalue picks. Most are misses. Like the Bolts and basically many contenders, if you still have a decent core around you might as well keep mortgaging the future a little while longer.


Regarding Karlsson: he’s been better than people are crediting him, and (keeping in mind the last point) Dubas traded a bunch of ‘eh’


Nobody was going to entirely reverse this team in one summer but acquiring Karlsson was about the biggest single player boost you could get.

And even better, if they do decide to bail and rebuild now, Karlsson contract already looks way better than it did coming from the Sharks. I’d imagine they can get at least as good a return if not better.

 

[Divine]

And even better, if they do decide to bail and rebuild now, Karlsson contract already looks way better than it did coming from the Sharks. I’d imagine they can get at least as good a return if not better.

Maybe if they retain. He's not having a 100 point season this year. If he had this same season last year, he'd still be in SJ and untradeable (without significant retention).

Karlsson at 5M might have more value to a team going for it. 10M for 4 years for this version of Karlsson? No way.

 

[Chips]

Maybe if they retain. He's not having a 100 point season this year. If he had this same season last year, he'd still be in SJ and untradeable (without significant retention).

Karlsson at 5M might have more value to a team going for it. 10M for 4 years for this version of Karlsson? No way.

Sorry that’s what I meant, if they rebuild and retain even more.


I feel like a different coach could unlock his offense, and I’d really like to see a coach change before any major trades


Of a rebuild is on the table idk why they wouldn’t just fire Sullivan and see what happens first. Won’t need him if you’re rebuilding. But he’s dug into that org.

 

[DearDiary]

I think Dubas is fighting himself here. They should have blew it up last off-season.

Instead he goes and trades Pittsburgh's 1st rounder this year for Karlsson. Now they realize it was a mistake and are contemplating trading Guentzel? Their aging core just got older with 4 years of Karlsson.

Dubas shot himself in the foot by saying that this team can still compete and I don't know if he wants to admit the first move he made in Pittsburgh was the wrong one. I imagine it'll be a retool and try again next season.

Pens top players are still good and they're one of the leagues best 5on5 teams. It makes no sense to blow it up this season, let alone last season. The teams issue is obvious and his last name starts with R

 

[HanSolo]

I'm actually surprised Reilly Smith is doing as well as he has for the Pen's this year.
He was by far the worst player on Vegas against the Oilers last year.
Don't trade with Vegas is my recommendation. They're very good at insulating and identifying dead weight after it has served its purpose.

I wouldn't touch anyone Vegas is offering with a 10 foot pole because how they play for you will not be the same as how they play for Vegas.

Nick Suzuki and Alex Tuch beg to differ.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Pens top players are still good and they're one of the leagues best 5on5 teams. It makes no sense to blow it up this season, let alone last season. The teams issue is obvious and his last name starts with R

No, Sullivan's initials are MS.

 

[Look Up]

Dubas shot himself in the foot by saying that this team can still compete and I don't know if he wants to admit the first move he made in Pittsburgh was the wrong one. I imagine it'll be a retool and try again next season.

Probably one of the reasons Dubas got hired to begin with - he said he could win with this team with a few additions instead of a rebuild.

 

[SenzZen]

 

[ES]

Pens might have a dilemma with their draft pick if they finish in the bottom 10 and don't win the lottery. Because I don't see them getting much better next season when the core is again older.

 

[NVious]

The hiring process in Pittsburgh;

You enter a room with just Mike Sullivan and a chair, he says 'give me your phone," you reluctantly hand it over to him, he gets all your darkest secrets, he hands it back and says "if you EVER f*** with my employment, I WILL END YOU." He stands up, shakes your hand and says "welcome on board"

#ExtendSullivan #LockHimUp(ToALongTermContract)

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Chicago is in absolute shambles at the moment, there’s almost 0 chance they lose to them. I know it’s popular to shit on them because of their recent play, but I think they’ll come out hard tomorrow to snap the 3 game losing streak

You mean like last year when Chicago was TRYING to lose to lock up Bedard, and we NEEDED to win to make the playoffs? ...and yet we still lost .

Tonights game is foreshadowing! It's fitting!
If this loss gets rid of Sully tonight, I'm all for it!

 

[SomeDude]

The problem is Dubas, like FSG, legitimately thinks Mike Sullivan is God’s gift to coaching. I’m sure they have cooked up a nice bar graph showing how the Pens season is actually going well.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Pens might have a dilemma with their draft pick if they finish in the bottom 10 and don't win the lottery. Because I don't see them getting much better next season when the core is again older.

9th or 10th they should just give it away, it's not a particularly strong draft and you are limiting your ability to rebuild or trade to get better if you have next year's pick gone.

In a perfect world, Crosby looks at the team in the offseason and says "Ok it's been fun, lots of great experiences, memories, etc. but we've missed the playoffs the last two years and we just aren't that good, I will waive my NMC to go play for a contender." At $8.7 with 1 year left, he still has good value and can return a good package. Malkin probably also waives at that point with $6.1 and 2 years left, maybe Letang and Karlsson have to stick around, but team based on what it could return and then with not much there can kickstart a true rebuild.

 

[Soundwave]

I think Dubas is fighting himself here. They should have blew it up last off-season.

Instead he goes and trades Pittsburgh's 1st rounder this year for Karlsson. Now they realize it was a mistake and are contemplating trading Guentzel? Their aging core just got older with 4 years of Karlsson.

Dubas shot himself in the foot by saying that this team can still compete and I don't know if he wants to admit the first move he made in Pittsburgh was the wrong one. I imagine it'll be a retool and try again next season.

No GM has authority to come in there and just tell Sidney Crosby they're rebuilding while he can still play at a high level.

That's not how having a player of his stature works.

You do your best to give them one more last run until they are gone, and then and only then do you rebuild.

And that's not even a GM thing, a rebuild in this kind of case has to be signed off by the owner because really by rebuild you're essentially telling Crosby to go elsewhere and that's an ownership decision, that's not a "your GM woke up on a Tuesday and decided this is the direction of the team" decision.

 

[Mattb124]

Wrong.

Karlsson's goals against wasn't just high. It was, by far, the worst of the past two decades, aside from other seasons from Karlsson.

The difference you are having a hard time comprehending is within a few percentages. All sorts of factors can swallow those margins up. In other words, your precision is far exceeding your accuracy.

What you seem to have a hard time comprehending is the difference between a player and a player’s utilization. When a player goes from bottom 10D in the league for +- to top 50 from one year to the next, no one with a lick of sense thinks it is because the player magically got better at defense during the off-season.

 

[Lacaar]

Nick Suzuki and Alex Tuch beg to differ.

I responded to Suzuki in different reply stating that the post should probably be modified to Veteran type players. Suzuki never played a game for Vegas.

Alex Tuch is a pretty good exception. Young player that started promising then had a couple of seasons showing no real growth. Vegas cut ties and he became one of if not the central piece to the Jack Eichel trade. A trade that's looking like a fleecing for Vegas all things considered. Krebs isn't pissing a drop and Noah Ostlund I have to admit I don't know alot about. He may be very promising.

So perhaps it's better to say Stay away from Vegas veterans they're willing to unload for cheap. Unless you have cap space to burn. I just think they're really good at identifying players on the down turn and unloading them. And I also think players are naturally motivated to play in the City so you may be due for some motivational regression.

Players line up to play there no matter how they're treated. And I'm not saying they treat they're players poorly. I just think they're not afraid of the consequences of reputation like a lot of other franchises have to consider. It's put up or get out there. Like I mentioned in my earlier post. Reilly wasn't good against the Oilers in the playoffs. They knew and unloaded him. Pittsburgh in desperation took him. It's not the worst fleecing ever. His stats aren't brutal. But it sounds like he's not really moving the dial helping the team win either.

 

[Midnight Judges]

What you seem to have a hard time comprehending is the difference between a player and a player’s utilization. When a player goes from bottom 10D in the league for +- to top 50 from one year to the next, no one with a lick of sense thinks it is because the player magically got better at defense during the off-season.

Nor do I believe that. Nor did I say it.

I think chances are he's pretty darn close to the same player this season as he was last season.

Difference being, the Pens actually give a crap about winning, and so he doesn't have the permanent green light to pinch.

Karlsson is likely not going to get much Norris consideration this season - and the primary difference is likely environmental, not with the individual. And so I think the Norris trophy is a bit broken.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

The Pens are Sid Crosby. Period. The captain trying to drag dead weight through another season while Sullivan pretends to be frustrated and shocked is an old act. I like Jeff Carter but when the old man is on both special teams units someone's clueless.
Karlsson replaced Petry and the team is worse after the switch?
Rielly Smith was a beaut on the Cup Champs and looks lost on Sullivan's squad. Jarry leads the league in shut outs and Sid is having a great year (even by his standards) yet the team has not held a play off spot for one day all season?
This team earned the age old option of a "new voice" like no team I've ever seen. Sullivan should take a page from Paul Maurice and get out of the way. As the owners won't make the change and apparently wont let Dubas do it.

I understand the sentiment completely, but honestly you don't want to know how bad it will be for PIT when Crosby/ Malkin are long gone.

You might see finishing last as some kind of virtue because you get to have a fun draft day or two.

It's no spring picnic. It could take 10-15 years for PIT to make the playoffs again.

Dubas will likely still be around when Crosby/Malkin are gone. He doesn't have the greatest track record for drafting. It was other GMs and Assistants who hit home rubs with Rielly, Marner, Nylander, and Matthews.

I know it's hard for you to stomach, but PIT will pay tribute to Crosby until he retires. When you have good players like you do, sneaking into the playoffs is not a terrible goal.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

No GM has authority to come in there and just tell Sidney Crosby they're rebuilding while he can still play at a high level.

That's not how having a player of his stature works.

You do your best to give them one more last run until they are gone, and then and only then do you rebuild.

And that's not even a GM thing, a rebuild in this kind of case has to be signed off by the owner because really by rebuild you're essentially telling Crosby to go elsewhere and that's an ownership decision, that's not a "your GM woke up on a Tuesday and decided this is the direction of the team" decision.

the problem is the Pens aren't very good, and haven't been in awhile
bringing in Karlsson was a huge mistake

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

For an unlikeable twerp who has never accomplished anything, Kyle Dubas sure has a lot of people carrying his water around for him.

 

[rahad]

I understand the sentiment completely, but honestly you don't want to know how bad it will be for PIT when Crosby/ Malkin are long gone.

You might see finishing last as some kind of virtue because you get to have a fun draft day or two.

It's no spring picnic. It could take 10-15 years for PIT to make the playoffs again.

Dubas will likely still be around when Crosby/Malkin are gone. He doesn't have the greatest track record for drafting. It was other GMs and Assistants who hit home rubs with Rielly, Marner, Nylander, and Matthews.

I know it's hard for you to stomach, but PIT will pay tribute to Crosby until he retires. When you have good players like you do, sneaking into the playoffs is not a terrible goal.

Dubas does not need to be good at drafting. Knowing Pittsburgh luck.They will end up drafting first overall in 2026.

From Mario L/Jagr> Crosby/Malkin> Gavin McKenna(2026)....

Pitts is one of the luckiest team in the league. Two generational talent drafted by the same team....